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Mixing carbs and fat burners on training days - counter productive?

Biggerp73

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So I'm doing this PSMF, and taking some carbs before my workout to fuel the training, spare muscle, speed recovery, etc. I'm wondering about the wisdom of taking my fat burners (ephedrine + caffiene) before workouts. I don't use them for training intensity, but only for fat hurning..and it seems like maybe taking them before my workout, when I'm going to be drinking dextrose, makes little sense. It almost seems counter productive, like the fat burners will make the dextrose less effective at raising insulin and creating an anabolic state, while the dextrose will make the fat burners unable to cause lipolysis. Seems maybe I should leave the fat burners for non-training times.
 
Your not doing psmf your just dieting. You should be in a huge defecit so the fat burners should work. Ephedra is pretty quick acting so should space it out a bit anyway
 
You can lose fat with carbs.
You can lose fat without carbs.

Using your rationale, the only way to diet then would be to be on keto???
 
You can lose fat with carbs.
You can lose fat without carbs.

Using your rationale, the only way to diet then would be to be on keto???

seriously. over complicating shit is pointless.
cals in, cals out
all that matters, only thing that matters.
protein 1g per pound of weight, the rest, fuck it as long as yr below maintenance.
 
Doesn't matter a whole lot. It's mostly for appetite suppression and energy. I like running yohimbine hcl with EC but be careful and start low.
 
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True, and DNP....LOL

If there's anything more effective than ECY + DNP + PSMF style diet, I'm not even sure I want to try it...LOL. Fat loss at an almost scary rate. People were concerned for my well being seeing me lean out that fast. Had several who said they'd pray for me...LOL. Guess they figured I was hiding a meth habit or something.
 
If there's anything more effective than ECY + DNP + PSMF style diet, I'm not even sure I want to try it...LOL. Fat loss at an almost scary rate. People were concerned for my well being seeing me lean out that fast. Had several who said they'd pray for me...LOL. Guess they figured I was hiding a meth habit or something.

was there any muscle loss? and was it a real PSMF diet, very low. cals only protein? How many calories>
 
If there's anything more effective than ECY + DNP + PSMF style diet, I'm not even sure I want to try it...LOL. Fat loss at an almost scary rate. People were concerned for my well being seeing me lean out that fast. Had several who said they'd pray for me...LOL. Guess they figured I was hiding a meth habit or something.
throw in some Tren and GH 3x per day.
 
You can lose fat with carbs.
You can lose fat without carbs.

Using your rationale, the only way to diet then would be to be on keto???

the idea of drinking dextrose before the workout is to get my body in an anti-catabolic state for that period of time.

If I am not drinking enough dextrose to temporarily slow down lipolysis, then I probably haven't done much to halt catabolism (as lipolysis and catabolism are definitely connected).
 
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You are taking a simple plan (psmf) and trying to make all these adjustments to optimize every little thing and you are no longer running the plan. Keep it simple drop the sugar water it has no magic anti catabolic superpowers that are going to preserve your hard earned muscle, if your running aas let it do that. Focus on burning fat, sugar water isn't going to help you.
 
You are taking a simple plan (psmf) and trying to make all these adjustments to optimize every little thing and you are no longer running the plan. Keep it simple drop the sugar water it has no magic anti catabolic superpowers that are going to preserve your hard earned muscle, if your running aas let it do that. Focus on burning fat, sugar water isn't going to help you.

I have been wanting to say this ^^^^ in all these PSMF post lately. Excellent post!!!!
 
so true, its like these guys that say they are goin to intermittent fast but during fasting periods "well imma take 20g bcca to stop catabolism so my hard earned muscle can be retained, oh and ill throw in a scoop of peanut butter, and some dextrose because sugar water will make my muscles grow when on 500 calories, oh and maybe ill throw in 100g extra protein per day to keep the cortisol down"

before you know it they are now taking in 5,000 calories and calling it PSMF. then I guess they wanna take DNP< ephedra, clen, gh, and 2g of tren and that somehow changes it back into a cut again lol
 
Ok we'll try PSMF with no carbs before training and PSMF with carbs before training and let me know how it goes.

(BTW, Lyle McDonald, who AFAIK invented PSMF, advised 15-30g carbs during the workout)
 
Fat burners: pre
Dextrose: post
 
All I did was take in about 10grams of carbs 3 days a week pre workout.. but I literally didnt do any veggies or carbs besides that during the psmf diet

If you read the actual book on it I believe he says consume a glucose tab pre workout and that's enough to tell the muscles to fire.
 
If 30g intra carbs is hindering your fat loss during a PSMF something is wrong. Add 3IU insulin and make the carbs actually hit you during a 1 hour session. Get it get out and let the deficit do its work.
 
You don`t need dextrose pre workout, your body has enough stores of glycogen. AAS are to maintain anabolic, or less catabolic state while in cal deficit. The body is very adaptive and you can not manipulate it to burn carbs NOW, and fats during this window. If any thing a few carbs POST workout when they will be absorbed the quickest.
 
All I did was take in about 10grams of carbs 3 days a week pre workout.. but I literally didnt do any veggies or carbs besides that during the psmf diet

If you read the actual book on it I believe he says consume a glucose tab pre workout and that's enough to tell the muscles to fire.

I found this from his book:

Consuming 5 grams of carbohydrate (I’ll mention this again in another chapter) about 10 minutes before you train can help a lot with your ability to maintain intensity, by increasing blood glucose back to the normal range. Conceivably,you could even increase this to 15-30 grams of carbs taken during the workout (this only adds 60-120 calories to your diet) as well. If you want to save some of your protein intake and consume it around training (maybe 15 grams of whey immediately before and/or after the workout), this will help to support protein synthesis and limit LBM losses as well.


If 30g intra carbs is hindering your fat loss during a PSMF something is wrong. Add 3IU insulin and make the carbs actually hit you during a 1 hour session. Get it get out and let the deficit do its work.

No, I have found, that the pre-workout carbs actually helps me with fat loss.


You don`t need dextrose pre workout, your body has enough stores of glycogen. AAS are to maintain anabolic, or less catabolic state while in cal deficit. The body is very adaptive and you can not manipulate it to burn carbs NOW, and fats during this window. If any thing a few carbs POST workout when they will be absorbed the quickest.

I'm doing zero carbs 24/7, so my muscles probably don't have much, if any, glycogen when I train. I like drinking the dextrose during my first warm up set, so blood sugar and insulin are spiking as I hit my heavy sets. Great pumps, and recovery is faster.
 

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