MK677 and Slin protocol

[sub7percent]

Insulin has a negative effect on GH production, but as a previous poster pointed out, to paraphrase "MK-677 stays active all day, so when you take it relative to your insulin use doesn't really matter in terms of GH output".



Your question is really no different than asking "If I eat carbs during the day, will it reduce MK-677's effectiveness?" Well yes, carbs have a negative effect on GH production via insulin secretion. This means that GH levels will rise even higher if you eliminated all carbs, but we don't stop eating carbs in order to maximize GH levels...unless you want to hold back recovery and growth.



The bottom line is that MK-677 has been shown to be highly effective regardless of insulin levels, as proven by the fact that bodybuilders eat massive amounts of carbs all day long, yet still experience significant elevations in GH when using MK-677.

Thanks Mike. And thanks for clarifying my question to include generally carb intake - I thought about this after I made this thread. I appreciate your comments.


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[Jensen1995]

In synergy with insulin (10-15 iu pre workout)

tried insulin without mk677 and the fat packs on quick but with mk677 it's making great result

 

[Gaintrain]

Any one stacked GH+slin+MK before?

 

[Mike Arnold]

Any one stacked GH+slin+MK before?

Yes, it is a great combination.

Personally, I would rather use 25 mg of MK-677 and 3-4 iu of GH than 7-8 iu of GH alone.

Not only are GH/IGF-1 levels elevated similarly, but you get several additional benefits, such as:

1.) Increased levels of all GH isoforms (rather than just one)

2.) You save money

3.) Increased appetite (as ghrelin mimetic, MK-677 stimulates the appetite).

4.) No suppression of natural GH production.


Insulin is beneficial regardless of whether you use GH, or GH and MK-677 together.

 

[dnab87]

Any sponsors have trust worthy mk677? ^^ Exact combination I'm trying to use with k677 pre bed

 

[Gaintrain]

Yes, it is a great combination.

Personally, I would rather use 25 mg of MK-677 and 3-4 iu of GH than 7-8 iu of GH alone.

Not only are GH/IGF-1 levels elevated similarly, but you get several additional benefits, such as:

1.) Increased levels of all GH isoforms (rather than just one)

2.) You save money

3.) Increased appetite (as ghrelin mimetic, MK-677 stimulates the appetite).

4.) No suppression of natural GH production.


Insulin is beneficial regardless of whether you use GH, or GH and MK-677 together.

Thank you bro!

 

[warlock]

Yes, it is a great combination.

Personally, I would rather use 25 mg of MK-677 and 3-4 iu of GH than 7-8 iu of GH alone.

Not only are GH/IGF-1 levels elevated similarly, but you get several additional benefits, such as:

1.) Increased levels of all GH isoforms (rather than just one)

2.) You save money

3.) Increased appetite (as ghrelin mimetic, MK-677 stimulates the appetite).

4.) No suppression of natural GH production.


Insulin is beneficial regardless of whether you use GH, or GH and MK-677 together.

Mike,

Do you also feel that using 25mg of Mk-677 + 2-3iu of GH would be safer/healthier than using 7-8iu of GH only?

I have always felt that using more than 4iu of legit GH could begin to bring some health consequences such us possible organs enlargement, specifically heart enlargement. What are your thoughts on that? Do you feel using less GH along with MK-677 would be a safer/healthier option than just using 7-8iu of GH?

 

[themuscle]

That is good man.
For purpose of bulking insulin does an amazing job. I wouldnt worry about its effect on Hgh or igf. If youre shooting up less than 10iu then you are on a safe zone man. A lot of people get crazy about "diabetic coma, not to mess up with it an shit" but 10iu is really not a high dose. It is high enough to drop your glucose low, but as long as your food is utilized at the insulin's peak zone, then youll be fine. Dextrose water would be your emergency thing if you get extremely dizzy and a bit light headed. A piece of bread as soon after you pin would be metabolized to simple carbs and ready for reuptake when the slin peaks.

If you pin preworkout, make sure you ate tons of carbs before hitting the gym. Remember working out also elevates your natural insulin. Hence, i would recommend just 2 to 4 units PWO. Moreover, if you take it post workout, which is the common practice, then you can just chug your protein shake post workout. Have a little protein food and by the time your slin peaks, food will be ready for glycogen restoration and nutrient reuptake.

With regards to water bloat, insulin doesnt give that at all. You will get a full look because your glyco storage will be full. Hence, even fat will increase! If you train really good and eat good. I wouldnt worry about the fat gains from slin. It is very minimal if you have a good training sched.

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"Fat will increase"?? Ugh.


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[warlock]

No brother. Insulin, carbs, fats do not effect GH production. Idk where that horseshit came from. Alpha tested that theory here by eating carbs and fats and shooting peps and taking a GH serum test 45mins later. It came back just as high as it did previously fasted. He then tested a higher dose, 500mcg if I recall correctly and it proved to not increase the gh serum levels over the lower doses. What is interesting though, is in the studies higher doses of MK677 50mg didn't show much of a significant gh serum level over 10mg, however igf levels were significantly elevated with 50mg. Something to think about. This is why I think the higher doses hit like a brick wall with lethargy and hypoglycemia in instances, must be because of the significant increases in igf.

I'd run the MK677 in the AM. Slin preworkout. Ghrp2 postworkout before your meal and another dose prebed. Increase carbs as needed to fight the lethargy.

Good post.

If Mk-677 at 50mg per day increases igf levels significantly, do you think most still run no more than 25mg because of side effects such as lethargy?

 

[RamboStallone]

Good post.

If Mk-677 at 50mg per day increases igf levels significantly, do you think most still run no more than 25mg because of side effects such as lethargy?

Yes, I've tried 50mg and it's like taking a sleeping pill. The lethargy is just too much. I think of you start around 10mg and bump it up another 10mg after you get past the sides, you can make it to 50mg successfully.

Here's the study I was referring to;

Oral administration of growth hormone (GH) releasing peptide-mimetic MK-677 stimulates the GH/insulin-like growth factor-I axis in selected GH-deficient adults.

Chapman IM1, Pescovitz OH, Murphy G, Treep T, Cerchio KA, Krupa D, Gertz B, Polvino WJ, Skiles EH, Pezzoli SS, Thorner MO.
Author information

Abstract
To determine the effect of the GH releasing peptide (GHRP)-mimetic, MK-677, on the GH/insulin-like growth factor-I (IGF-I) axis in selected GH-deficient adults, we studied nine severely GH-deficient men [peak serum GH concentration in response to insulin-induced hypoglycemia of 1.2 +/- 1.5 micrograms/L, mean +/- SD (range 0.02-4.79)], age 17-34 yr, height 168 +/- 1.5 cm, body mass index 22.6 +/- 3.3 kg/m2, who had been treated for GH deficiency with GH during childhood. In a double-blind rising-dose design, subjects received once daily oral doses of 10 or 50 mg MK-677 or placebo for 4 days over two treatment periods separated by at least 28 days. Four subjects received placebo and 10 mg/day MK-677 in a cross-over fashion in periods 1 and 2. Five subjects received 10 mg and then 50 mg/day MK-677 in a sequential, rising-dose fashion in periods 1 and 2, respectively. Blood was collected every 20 min for 24 h before treatment and at the end of each period for GH measurement using an ultrasensitive assay. The drug was generally well tolerated, with no significant changes from baseline in circulating concentrations of cortisol, PRL, and thyroid hormones. Serum IGF-i and 24-H mean GH concentrations increased in all subjects after treatment with both 10 and 50 mg/day MK-677 vs. baseline. After treatment with 10 mg MK-677, IGF-I concentrations increased 52 +/- 20% (65 +/- 6 to 99 +/- 9 micrograms/L, geometric mean +/- intrasubject SE, P < or = 0.05 vs. baseline), and 24 h mean GH concentrations increased 79 +/- 19% (0.14 +/- 0.01 to 0.26 +/- 0.02 microgram/L, P < or = 0.05 vs. baseline). Following treatment with 50 mg MK-677, IGF-I concentrations increased 79 +/- 9% (84 +/- 3 to 150 +/- 6 micrograms/L, P < or = 0.05 vs. baseline) and 24-h mean GH concentrations increased 82 +/- 29% (0.21 +/- 0.02 to 0.39 +/- 0.04 microgram/L, P < or = 0.05 vs. baseline), respectively. Serum IGF binding protein-3 concentrations increased with both 10 mg (1.2 +/- 0.1 to 1.7 +/- 0.1 micrograms/L, P < or = 0.05) and 50 mg MK-677 (1.7 +/- 0.1 to 2.2 +/- 0.2 micrograms/L, P < or = 0.05). The GH response to MK-677 was greater in subjects who were the least GH/IGF-I deficient at baseline; by linear regression analysis the increase in 24-h mean GH concentration was positively related to both baseline 24-h mean GH concentration (r = 0.81, P = 0.009) and baseline IGF-I (r = 0.79, P = 0.01) for 10 mg MK-677. IGF-I responses were not significantly related to any baseline measurement. Fasting and postprandial insulin and postprandial glucose increased significantly after MK-677 treatment, and the clinical significance of these changes will need to be assessed in longer term studies. Oral administration of such GHRP-mimetic compounds may have a role in the treatment of GH deficiency of childhood onset.

Critical factor to point out is the increase in IGFBP3, which is the binding protein. Without it the igf doesn't work.

 

[warlock]

Yes, I've tried 50mg and it's like taking a sleeping pill. The lethargy is just too much. I think of you start around 10mg and bump it up another 10mg after you get past the sides, you can make it to 50mg successfully.

Here's the study I was referring to;

Oral administration of growth hormone (GH) releasing peptide-mimetic MK-677 stimulates the GH/insulin-like growth factor-I axis in selected GH-deficient adults.

Chapman IM1, Pescovitz OH, Murphy G, Treep T, Cerchio KA, Krupa D, Gertz B, Polvino WJ, Skiles EH, Pezzoli SS, Thorner MO.
Author information

Abstract
To determine the effect of the GH releasing peptide (GHRP)-mimetic, MK-677, on the GH/insulin-like growth factor-I (IGF-I) axis in selected GH-deficient adults, we studied nine severely GH-deficient men [peak serum GH concentration in response to insulin-induced hypoglycemia of 1.2 +/- 1.5 micrograms/L, mean +/- SD (range 0.02-4.79)], age 17-34 yr, height 168 +/- 1.5 cm, body mass index 22.6 +/- 3.3 kg/m2, who had been treated for GH deficiency with GH during childhood. In a double-blind rising-dose design, subjects received once daily oral doses of 10 or 50 mg MK-677 or placebo for 4 days over two treatment periods separated by at least 28 days. Four subjects received placebo and 10 mg/day MK-677 in a cross-over fashion in periods 1 and 2. Five subjects received 10 mg and then 50 mg/day MK-677 in a sequential, rising-dose fashion in periods 1 and 2, respectively. Blood was collected every 20 min for 24 h before treatment and at the end of each period for GH measurement using an ultrasensitive assay. The drug was generally well tolerated, with no significant changes from baseline in circulating concentrations of cortisol, PRL, and thyroid hormones. Serum IGF-i and 24-H mean GH concentrations increased in all subjects after treatment with both 10 and 50 mg/day MK-677 vs. baseline. After treatment with 10 mg MK-677, IGF-I concentrations increased 52 +/- 20% (65 +/- 6 to 99 +/- 9 micrograms/L, geometric mean +/- intrasubject SE, P < or = 0.05 vs. baseline), and 24 h mean GH concentrations increased 79 +/- 19% (0.14 +/- 0.01 to 0.26 +/- 0.02 microgram/L, P < or = 0.05 vs. baseline). Following treatment with 50 mg MK-677, IGF-I concentrations increased 79 +/- 9% (84 +/- 3 to 150 +/- 6 micrograms/L, P < or = 0.05 vs. baseline) and 24-h mean GH concentrations increased 82 +/- 29% (0.21 +/- 0.02 to 0.39 +/- 0.04 microgram/L, P < or = 0.05 vs. baseline), respectively. Serum IGF binding protein-3 concentrations increased with both 10 mg (1.2 +/- 0.1 to 1.7 +/- 0.1 micrograms/L, P < or = 0.05) and 50 mg MK-677 (1.7 +/- 0.1 to 2.2 +/- 0.2 micrograms/L, P < or = 0.05). The GH response to MK-677 was greater in subjects who were the least GH/IGF-I deficient at baseline; by linear regression analysis the increase in 24-h mean GH concentration was positively related to both baseline 24-h mean GH concentration (r = 0.81, P = 0.009) and baseline IGF-I (r = 0.79, P = 0.01) for 10 mg MK-677. IGF-I responses were not significantly related to any baseline measurement. Fasting and postprandial insulin and postprandial glucose increased significantly after MK-677 treatment, and the clinical significance of these changes will need to be assessed in longer term studies. Oral administration of such GHRP-mimetic compounds may have a role in the treatment of GH deficiency of childhood onset.

Critical factor to point out is the increase in IGFBP3, which is the binding protein. Without it the igf doesn't work.

Thanks for posting the study. Very interesting.

Has anyone come across a study comparing 25mg vs. 50mg as far as IGF levels go?

 

[RamboStallone]

Thanks for posting the study. Very interesting.

Has anyone come across a study comparing 25mg vs. 50mg as far as IGF levels go?

I have not seen one, but I would venture to say that 25mg would produce more GH/IGF then 10mg but less then 50mg. The increases were dose dependant in the studies. I guess your trying to find the point of diminishing returns? Would probably be 50mg but 25mg is probably almost as effective. From experience and anecdotal data, 25mg seems to be the sweet spot for most.

 

[sub7percent]

I thought I saw a study on this somewhere - could be wrong - where 50mg showed more IGF but not significant increase in gh.


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[Airhonn]

Curious on this! Mk just gave me a lot of hunger !

 

[RamboStallone]

I thought I saw a study on this somewhere - could be wrong - where 50mg showed more IGF but not significant increase in gh.


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Yea look at post 30 lol.

 

[RamboStallone]

Curious on this! Mk just gave me a lot of hunger !

Lol, definitely more then just hunger bro. We've been screaming at the top of the mountains how great MK677 is since 2014 (some probably before, I'll speak for myself). It's starting to catch on now. I don't like spending my money on GH. If I do use GH it's in conjunction with GH secretagogues/peptides as Mike is doing. I'll flat out say this since I'm not a rep anymore, GH secretagogues/peptides gave me better results then exogenous generic HGH. Peps were cheaper and the results are quicker. Just my opinion.

 

[Gaintrain]

Enough positive feedback for me to try it in future mk at bed, gh in am, slin pwo

 

[Mike Arnold]

Mike,

Do you also feel that using 25mg of Mk-677 + 2-3iu of GH would be safer/healthier than using 7-8iu of GH only?

I have always felt that using more than 4iu of legit GH could begin to bring some health consequences such us possible organs enlargement, specifically heart enlargement. What are your thoughts on that? Do you feel using less GH along with MK-677 would be a safer/healthier option than just using 7-8iu of GH?

Define "healthier"? There probably isn't much difference.

 

[natrol]

Any sponsors have trust worthy mk677? ^^ Exact combination I'm trying to use with k677 pre bed

Board sponsor enhancedathlete.com has good MK-677 imo.

Use Discount code "dc15" for 15% off your order.

 

[sub7percent]

Yea look at post 30 lol.

I'll be honest dude, unless someone provides the cliff notes for me I do not fully understand how to read the numbers in these studies.


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