Modern Bodybuilding and Health

[Magnum]

SEOs and heart health - any comment on that Magnum?

That guy Mike who mods Mayhem and now works for MD always blamed SEO for many of the heart issues seen. Any link you can see?

Do you know why he thinks this?

 

[jalsmiley]

I don't think that a couple of hundred mgs will be a big deal. There is use and abuse though so keep that in mind.

i know a couple people who had reversible heart issues from ephedrine use...so you are 100percent correct in the taxing on the heart organ from the constant high frequency pumping from some of these substances in our sport...def wasnt made to handle all the abuse!

 

[animal eater]

Great Post

All very astute points here Magnum. The two things that puzzle me most is people on an endless coctails of drugs who don't even compete and people having no regard for their future. Think about it a moment. How many people who read this thread even eek out a living as a competitve bodybuilder. At days end their will be a limited amount of days when you are a ticking timebomb. Believe it or not, there is more to life beyond being FKN Huge.

 

[Magnum]

Yes clen or any type of stimulant in excess will also cause extreme heart damage. Again, use and abuse, there is a huge difference. In my lifetime I have done 3 cycles of clen lasting roughly 4 to 6 weeks at 40 to 60 mcgs daily. I can't imagine doing 80 to 200 mcgs daily. I personally witnessed a guy take 49 ephedrine tabs at once. This kid had worked up to this dose over months of use.

I have said before that I don't think that steroids are nearly as dangerous as they are made out to be and I still believe this, but I also believe that abusing them for years will def get you into trouble eventually. I 100% believe that abusing stimulants is 10 times worse than steroid use. I've seen people with resting heart rates in the upper 90's. I've seen this and high blood pressure in people who don't even lift, but use stimulants to lose weight.

I have always though it a bad idea to tell your Dr that you use steroids. I know that most here will not agree and that's fine, but Drs will almost 100 % of the time put the blame on steroids use and I think that this could make them stop looking for another cause that could be lurking behind the scenes like a virus or a genetic flaw. I wonder what a Dr would blame on heart damage first steroid use or years of stimulant abuse.

I remember talking to a nurse when my Mom was in the hospital and she was telling me about a 32 year old girl who was in heart failure with an ejection fraction of 15 and they were having a hard time founding out why. I never got a chance to find out why.

 

[J.D]

Magnum that was a great post hope people listen to what you said things i have wanted to say now with you and lats saying what you said espicallly about tren which i havent beleieve some of the dosages anyway, and also agree what you said about test im actullt taking less than 250mg a week at moment also why im amazed about some of the hrt dosages im seeing if people are telling theh truth, again great post best post in ages.

 

[kscowboy]

Great post magnum. I think we can all benefit from an eye opening post like that and at least it makes us think.

I guess there are several theories of thought on cycle length and dosages but do you think it is harder on the body to do longer lower dosed cycles or shorter cycles but higher doses?

Once again thanks for the enlightening.

 

[Magnum]

Great post magnum. I think we can all benefit from an eye opening post like that and at least it makes us think.

I guess there are several theories of thought on cycle length and dosages but do you think it is harder on the body to do longer lower dosed cycles or shorter cycles but higher doses?

Once again thanks for the enlightening.

IMO shorter higher dose cycles will yield better results, but as far as safety that all depends on what drugs are being used and how long.

 

[kscowboy]

I went back and read your original post again magnum. There is some good points that you brought up.

ANd i think most people on these boards fall into your exact statement. I would be willing to bet that 95% of the people on these boards have never and will never step on a bodybuilding stage. Most of us are in it for other reasons and not competitive bodybuilding.

When you say short cycles with higher doses are better, what are you referring to? Instead of giving you an example of gear to be used, can you give examples instead?

 

[TrojanBB]

hmm this has made me rethink my goals in terms of drug use.

If even deca and test are so dangerous to heart health (especially since cardio is very important to me for non-bbing reasons), then what injectables are safest?

 

[DicedSix]

hmm this has made me rethink my goals in terms of drug use.

If even deca and test are so dangerous to heart health (especially since cardio is very important to me for non-bbing reasons), then what injectables are safest?

I think the keys to health are quite simple. As with everything, use moderation in your doses and get regular bloodwork and checkups.

I truly think many of us could cut our doses substantially and still get the same desired outcome. More is not always better.

 

[jalsmiley]

I went back and read your original post again magnum. There is some good points that you brought up.

ANd i think most people on these boards fall into your exact statement. I would be willing to bet that 95% of the people on these boards have never and will never step on a bodybuilding stage. Most of us are in it for other reasons and not competitive bodybuilding.

When you say short cycles with higher doses are better, what are you referring to? Instead of giving you an example of gear to be used, can you give examples instead?

here is the problem with that even...almost NONE of the people who even step on stage are going to make a living or any kind of substantial living with it so to even use that as a reason to say yeah ok tren is good then...so then why even differentiate them from others using it!? that being said, i think tren is out of control! personally, i have tried it, obviously loved the results(and off approx 225mg weekly)but even with that small dose i didnt think the sides were worth it...it makes me oily as a mofo, sweat like pig in and out of gym, it brought acne back to me(when test and other things didnt)and literally makes me wanna drag people through the windows of their cars and kill them if they cut me off...who knows what it is doing that you cant see or feel immed!

 

[Ivan]

its quite simple guys...go to a heart doc once a year if you are going to do this stuff...
it is beyond me how poeple will not forget their shots of tren, wont miss a day at the gym for years on end but will not make a fucken appointment for the doctor!!!

there are people prone to disease and problems and if you dont get checked it may be too late when you find out...get the full blood workups and get checked out...and not by your local gp quacks

Ignorance is bliss my man..

I have always really liked test though...

 

[jalsmiley]

Ignorance is bliss my man..

I have always really liked test though...

i love test

 

[comedycentral]

magnum a couple of questions if you wouldnt mind.

i have always thought that i got a great natural hormonal boost from working a set of hard heavy 20 rep squats. Is this really going to place massive stresses (dangerous) stresses on the heart??

also when i do cardio such as the stairmaster my heart rate according to the machine will easily hit 135-140 yet my breathing is steady and i feel quite comfortable.
to keep my heart rate at around 120 i feel im barely moving and its doing nothing. does this mean my fitness is poor or that my heart is not efficient?? i have had an ECG in the past year and they said everything was OK.

 

[Phidias]

Another drug that I think should not be used unless you are a competitor and in small amount is trenbolone. Some steroids just don't seem to agree with the human body and I think tren is one of them.

Each time I got off tren was like I was returning to life again... in fact being on that drug has always transformed me into a walking zombie... not worth the slight edge it gives you hardness/vascularity wise IMO...

 

[maldorf]

magnum a couple of questions if you wouldnt mind.

i have always thought that i got a great natural hormonal boost from working a set of hard heavy 20 rep squats. Is this really going to place massive stresses (dangerous) stresses on the heart??

also when i do cardio such as the stairmaster my heart rate according to the machine will easily hit 135-140 yet my breathing is steady and i feel quite comfortable.
to keep my heart rate at around 120 i feel im barely moving and its doing nothing. does this mean my fitness is poor or that my heart is not efficient?? i have had an ECG in the past year and they said everything was OK.

I would go more by what your resting heart rate is. What's your heart rate when you first get up in the morning, lying in bed?

 

[ericraven2003]

Each time I got off tren was like I was returning to life again... in fact being on that drug has always transformed me into a walking zombie... not worth the slight edge it gives you hardness/vascularity wise IMO...

You got that right. I have been doing mini cycles of tren(low dose-200mg a week) over the last year(probably 5-6 times). Well, I just finished my last one about 4 weeks ago, and I have to say I feel like a person again. I have energy, I can sleep. Other then 10mg of anavar a day for the next 60 days, I am going to stay off(or try to) all gear until October. I will stay on my longevity dose gh/ghrp. I want to enjoy this summer and feel good.

 

[almard]

Seems there have been quite a few people on here who have been having heart problems and it also seems that it is getting more common. I've been wondering for a while as to why this is happening and to be honest I couldn't tell you exactly why. I do have an opinion on it and I think that it is at least plausable and something that should be taken into consideration.

Guys are definitely taking more drugs today than ever. Even guys who will never compete who may want to look good all year round, which to be honest makes it worse because years ago guys usually came off after a show. Now with guys who never compete, they stay on most of the year so they can perpetually look good. Not a good idea in my opinion.

Steroids aside we also are seeing guys taking a different array of drugs such as cancer drugs, insulin, peptides etc. Not saying that these things can't be used BUT I think they are overused and some of this stuff should never be used. Just because you don't feel a side effect doesn't mean a drug is not doing damage to your body.

Think for a minute of all the stress that is put on the body, especially the heart. The average guy who competes is taking a ton of test, (not good IMO) more on this later, insulin, (an aging hormone that is also stressing the heart. Has anyone ever taken their HR about a half hour after shooting slin? Eating massive amounts of food, which also is not just straining your heart but other organs, and training too is another one. Every single day you go to the gym and your heart is being pushed to max levels every set with each rep, trying to pump massive amounts of blood to keep up with the demand over and over again, and then when you are done what do you do? You get on the treadmill for more heart stimulation.

Nothing wrong with training hard, but training to extreme failure especially while doing squats is going to wear out your heart muscle over time. This also goes for these stupid freakin aerobic classes and the instructors who tell you that you need to have your heart rate sky high for X amount of time so you can be strong and healthy just like them. The human body is not meant to handle this kind of stress every day over and over again. Do some research and you will see quite a few athletes who are now having heart problems and some who have dropped dead. Long distance runners, rugby players, tri athletes, the list goes on.

I hear a lot of guys say test is best. Well, I never liked test. In fact, anything over 250 mgs made me feel terrible. Water retention, increased heart rate and more. I also noticed that it had nothing to do with how I ate or what I weighed. Eating clean and being fairly lean made no difference. I know a lot of guys who take high dose test and for many years and feel fine, but for me and others that I have talked to they feel the same as I do. Like I said, just because you feel fine doesn't mean that there isn't damage being done. Remember, steroids were invented in an attempt to take away the nasty androgen side effects. IMO there is never a good reason to constantly pump a ton of androgens in your body for years on end. It is eventually going to destroy your heart.

Getting back to the training to extreme failure subject. If I remember correctly there was a post awhile back about how guys who took steroids had a higher instance of an enlarged heart and or thickening of the heart wall. Then someone posted a study that showed even when not using steroids the same thing happened to athletes. NO SHIT! Can't believe there needed to be studies done to prove this. It's common sense that after years of heavy strain on the heart this will happen.

Another drug that I think should not be used unless you are a competitor and in small amount is trenbolone. Just a nasty very harsh drug that is hard on the body especially the kidneys. Even Dan Duchaine thought that tren was too strong of a steroid and should be used only for serious competitive bodybuilders. Some steroids just don't seem to agree with the human body and I think tren is one of them.

Bodybuilding and lifting weights in general has become nothing more than a huge chemical cluster fuck over the years. People need to take a step back and actually look at how they are treating their body. Lifting weights used to be the cornerstone of muscle growth with maybe a few shorts cycles a year, to taking a list of drugs so long it's embarassing to even write down. Add to this being able to use extremely massive amounts of weights because of the huge amounts of drugs that they use and this in turn puts even more stress on the body because now you can use 2000 pounds on the leg press, and 600 pounds for reps on squats and people still make comments like, why don't we see physiques like arnold anymore or even the guys back in the late 80's early 90's. Yeah I wonder why. I also wonder why these guys are constantly tearing muscle off the bone and losing the function of their kidneys and other organs.

I almost forgot another very healthy trend that is going on that you never saw as much years ago. Gaining 50 to 80 pounds after a show in an attempt to be the "heaviest" guy in the gym, not necessarily the biggest. Lord knows it's very healthy to gain back 30 pounds of water weight in the first 2 to 3 days after your show. This I'm sure has nothing to do with failing hearts. I see this being done over and over again and this is one of the MAIN things that I stressed to guys when I trained them. Be very careful reintroducing fluids and food back to the body. Even if you are not using diuretics bad things can happen and will, but obviously even more so while using drugs to get dry. Just a few of the many thoughts that go thru my head about the current situation.

I beleve that Test in much safer than drugs like, winstrol, EQ, Deca......Test, GH, is the most frindly drugs on the human body.......Just amagine using gram of EQ and how your PRC will looks like?

 

[Magnum]

magnum a couple of questions if you wouldnt mind.

i have always thought that i got a great natural hormonal boost from working a set of hard heavy 20 rep squats. Is this really going to place massive stresses (dangerous) stresses on the heart??

also when i do cardio such as the stairmaster my heart rate according to the machine will easily hit 135-140 yet my breathing is steady and i feel quite comfortable.
to keep my heart rate at around 120 i feel im barely moving and its doing nothing. does this mean my fitness is poor or that my heart is not efficient?? i have had an ECG in the past year and they said everything was OK.

There are many guys with huge thighs who just do squats in the normal 8 to 10 reps range. When I refer to 20 rep squats I am talking about the old time method of breathing squats. Pick a weight that you can do ten reps with and do 20. Sounds goofy but after bout the ten reps mark you stand there and take deep breathes and do another rep. You continue this till you get as close to 20 as you can. This type of training and I have done this, IMO is not good for the heart in the long run.

When I used to do cardio my HR was around 120 and I too felt like I could easily hold a conversation and was not out of breath. I'm mainly talking about people who are doing 90% max HR or higher on a daily basis for years on end. It's this kind of stuff and again IMO that is wearing one's heart out.

 

[Magnum]

I would go more by what your resting heart rate is. What's your heart rate when you first get up in the morning, lying in bed?

Good point, even though all I do at this point is walk a lot my resting HR is aroun 68. At this point in my life I am more concerned with EJ and blockages.