More of my thoughts on Cholesterol and where we go wrong

[AlphaMaleDawg]

This is a basic panel.. I think HDL to LDL ratio is worthless.. But, there is some merit to Total Cholesterol to HDL.. HDL is a transporter.. The longer LDL stays in the blood, the more two things happen: it is exposed to oxidants, and as its limited supply of antioxidants run out, the polyunsaturated fatty acids in its membrane oxidize, leading to the further oxidation of its proteins and cholesterol. So there is a transfer of HDL to LDL cholesterol.

So the total-to-HDL cholesterol ratio should be a marker for the amount of time LDL particles spend in the blood. This, in turn, is dictated by the activity of the LDL receptor, which brings LDL into the liver and other tissues that need it. Since the liver only packages lipoproteins with a finite amount of antioxidants, it is critical that they reach cells, where antioxidant enzymes are regularly produced, quickly and efficiently. To whatever extent the total-to-HDL cholesterol ratio is high, this probably isn't happening.

can you give some insight as to how your HDL is so high? Did it ever used to be low? Are you off gear? Take OTC or prescribed meds?

 

[bigsonbitch]

this is a great thread. i just got my lipids back and to say the least they were real bad.
hdl 28
ldl 209
trig were normal

i always thought oatmeal and sweet potaoes and brown rice were good for cholesterol which i eat tons of...but this states the contrary except for right before training. of course my cycle didnt help but im down to TRT doasage and
im on statin s because of my terrible numbers, but is there a sample diet i you or anyone else can post? would be greatly appreciated.

 

[mountaindog1]

I guess Im living the pipe dream.. Yes.. High liver values can indicate lipid issues..

Tell these guys what you eat again..it's worth repeating..

JM

 

[Cosmicdrifter]

High HDL Cholesterol (Hyperalphalipoproteinemia)

High-density lipoprotein (HDL) is positively associated with a decreased risk of coronary heart disease (CHD). As defined by the US National Cholesterol Education Program Adult Treatment Panel III guidelines, an HDL cholesterol level (HDL-C) of 60 mg/dL or greater is a negative (protective) risk factor.[1] On the other hand, a high-risk HDL cholesterol level is described as one that is below 40 mg/dL. Randomized, controlled clinical trials have demonstrated that interventions to raise HDL cholesterol levels are associated with reduced CHD events. A prospective analysis by Mora et al investigated the link between cholesterol and cardiovascular events in women and found baseline HDL-C level was consistently and inversely associated with incident coronary and coronary vascular disease events across a range of low-density lipoprotein-cholesterol (LDL-C) values.[2]

The major apolipoproteins of HDL are apolipoprotein (apo) A-I and apo A-II, the alpha lipoproteins. An elevated concentration of apo A-I and apo A-II is called hyperalphalipoproteinemia (HALP), which is associated with a lower risk CHD. Conversely, hypoalphalipoproteinemia increases the risk of CHD. The levels at which HDL confers benefit or risk are not discrete, and the cut points are somewhat arbitrary, especially considering that HDL levels are, on average, higher in US women compared with men and higher in blacks compared with whites.

Elevated HDL levels are associated with low levels of very low-density lipoprotein cholesterol (VLDL) and triglyceride (TG) levels. LDL-C levels may be within the reference range or elevated. Persons with HALP do not have any unusual clinical features, and the condition should not be considered a disease entity but rather a fortuitous condition that can increase longevity because of the associated decreased incidence of CHD.[3]

HDL is more tightly controlled by genetic factors than are the other lipoproteins (ie, LDL, VLDL, intermediate-density lipoprotein [IDL], and chylomicrons). For example, in certain families, especially some families with Japanese ancestry, a genetic deficiency of cholesteryl ester transfer protein (CETP) is associated with strikingly elevated HDL cholesterol levels.[4]

However, environmental factors also have a significant impact on HDL levels. Factors that elevate HDL concentrations include chronic alcoholism, treatment with oral estrogen replacement therapy, extensive aerobic exercise, and treatment with niacin, statins, or fibrates.[5, 6, 7] On the other hand, smoking reduces levels of HDL cholesterol, while quitting smoking leads to a rise in the plasma HDL level.

Very high levels of HDL cholesterol have been reported to be atherogenic. The mechanism of this paradoxical effect is not entirely clear.


Longevity


The aging process involves damage to the body and DNA so the key to longevity in the short term is limiting that damage, in the long term it involves repairing the body and DNA.

- Resveratol stimulates sirtuin genes linked to DNA repair. (fruit flies living 30-50% longer)
- *Good cholesterol HDL* is linked to longevity. (*people living to 100*)
- Low insoline is linked to longevity. (worms and fruit flies living longer)
- Sleep is linked to DNA repair.
- The secret of red wine. (resveratol and alcohol)
- Alcohol. (HDL boost and reduced dementia)
- Reduced stress and DNA damage
- Social networks and friends
- Digestion and supplements
- Sex and hormones
- Exercise and growth hormone
- The Legend (cholesterol and inflammation)
- A good diet and lower risk of disease

Sirtuin Genes and Resveratol

The sirtuin genes are part of an intricate stretch response or survival mode response. When times are tough they kick in and increase DNA repair or prevent cell death. Some people use calorie restriction in order to trigger the survival mode response and stimulate the sirtuin genes.

Resveratol also stimulates the sirtuin genes without the calorie restriction or survival mode response.
It is similar to calorie restriction but without the calorie restriction.

DAF2 Genes and Insoline

Decreased or low levels of insoline are also linked to longevity.
So a diet the keeps insoline levels low leads to a longer life similar to calorie restriction.

Good Cholesterol (HDL)

High levels of good cholesterol (HDL) are linked to longevity. (people living to 100)

Exercise is linked to higher HDL levels.

- Aerobic exercise, walking, jogging, exercise that raises your heart rate for 20 - 30 minutes at a time may be the most effective way to increase HDL levels. (duration)

A good diet can also reduce bad cholesterol (LDL) and increase good cholesterol (HDL).

- Vitamin B, B3 Niacin, can help lower bad cholesterol (LDL) and boost good (HDL) cholesterol.
- Alcohol, one or two drinks per day can significantly increase HDL levels.
- Omega-3 fatty acids can also increase HDL levels.
- Monounsaturated fats such as olive oil can increase HDL levels without increasing the total cholesterol.
- Soluble fibers such as oats, fruits, vegetables, and legumes can reduction LDL and an increase HDL levels.
- Calcium supplementation can increase HDL levels. (postmenopausal women)
- Cranberry juice has been shown to increase HDL levels.

- Trans fatty acids, partially hydrogenated vegetable oils, can increase LDL and reduce HDL levels.
- Sugar can decrease HDL and increase triglycerides levels.

Lose weight, obesity can increase LDL and reduced HDL levels.

Stop smoking, giving up tobacco will increase HDL levels.

Ultra-low-fat diets have been reported to result in a significant reduction in HDL in some individuals.

Cancer risk is reduced with increased HDL levels.

Detoxification and reduced plaque in blood vessels is linked to HDL cholestrol, the higher the better. (heart disease)

 

[bigguns078]

I'd have to dig up another bloodwork.. But my HDL was never that high.. I think i doubled it!! I was ur typical bodybuilder eater.. Lots of low fat meats... I would cut off every single thread of fat, drain fat from ground beef and soak in water, buy in bulk perdue chicken breasts and supermarket 93 lean ground beef, lots of egg whites and minimal egg yolks.. PAM spray when cooking.. Some veggies and fruits, but mostly pasta, yams, brown rice.. Fish a couple times a week.. Mostly canned tuna.. Then lots of simple carbs around workout.. Typical stuff: carbo force, dextrose, gatorade powder, fat free snacks.... etc... Low fat yogurts, cheeses, and skim milk...

Then i ditched the crappy simple carbs.. No more sugary stuff.. Lowered my carb intake.. Got rid of the low fat meats and ate grass fed beef, whole pasture eggs, raw dairy, more fruits and veggies, grass fed organ meat at least once a week, bone broth from pasture chickens or grass fed beef bones (highly recommend this!!), wild fish at least once a week.. usually shellfish or canned salmon (with bones and skin).. My carbs now come mostly from organic white rice and organic yams and fruit and full fat raw milk.. Cooking done with olive oil, raw pasture butter, red palm oil.. Coconut oil after workouts..

And Im not perfect.. I go out to eat for dinner on weekends sometimes.. I will get ice cream sometimes (usually ben and jerry's vanilla (no rbh milk).. Chipotle sometimes... A couple of alcoholic drinks on occasion. So don't think Im perfect here.. Alot of guys post up these diets and it looks perfect, but they tend to leave out reality...

My bloodwork was taken two weeks Post Cycle I believe....

 

[alpha6164]

I thought having an hdl of over 40 is a pipe dream but I have read of people hdl's of 120.

I wonder if having high liver values messes with lipid values. I noticed that when my ast alt are high my ldl is high and hdl gets a tad lower.

It is definitely not a pipe dream. My HDL is in the high 60s. My mother with the diet and medication i have her on has her HDL in the 80s. And she is someone that always was living in the 30s. It is all about the diet.

 

[AlphaMaleDawg]

I'd have to dig up another bloodwork.. But my HDL was never that high.. I think i doubled it!! I was ur typical bodybuilder eater.. Lots of low fat meats... I would cut off every single thread of fat, drain fat from ground beef and soak in water, buy in bulk perdue chicken breasts and supermarket 93 lean ground beef, lots of egg whites and minimal egg yolks.. PAM spray when cooking.. Some veggies and fruits, but mostly pasta, yams, brown rice.. Fish a couple times a week.. Mostly canned tuna.. Then lots of simple carbs around workout.. Typical stuff: carbo force, dextrose, gatorade powder, fat free snacks.... etc... Low fat yogurts, cheeses, and skim milk...

Then i ditched the crappy simple carbs.. No more sugary stuff.. Lowered my carb intake.. Got rid of the low fat meats and ate grass fed beef, whole pasture eggs, raw dairy, more fruits and veggies, grass fed organ meat at least once a week, bone broth from pasture chickens or grass fed beef bones (highly recommend this!!), wild fish at least once a week.. usually shellfish or canned salmon (with bones and skin).. My carbs now come mostly from organic white rice and organic yams and fruit and full fat raw milk.. Cooking done with olive oil, raw pasture butter, red palm oil.. Coconut oil after workouts..

And Im not perfect.. I go out to eat for dinner on weekends sometimes.. I will get ice cream sometimes (usually ben and jerry's vanilla (no rbh milk).. Chipotle sometimes... A couple of alcoholic drinks on occasion. So don't think Im perfect here.. Alot of guys post up these diets and it looks perfect, but they tend to leave out reality...

My bloodwork was taken two weeks Post Cycle I believe....

Thanks for sharing. But is your HDL that high even when blasting on some gear?

 

[Leggo my Ego]

Cooking done with olive oil, raw pasture butter, red palm oil.. Coconut oil after workouts..

I actually make my own blend for spreads and cooking. Equal parts Extra Virgin coconut oil, grass fed Ghee, and Red Palm Oil. I take one cup of each, place in a large jar and leave it outside in the sun for thirty minutes or so. Then once it is all liquified, I shake the shit out of it to blend it and place it in the fridge. After an hour it takes on a solid state and then place on the counter. Once it hits room temp, it remains a smooth creamy texture similar to margarine and is delicious spread on Ezekiel toast or melted on rice or used to cook eggs, etc in. I highly recommend trying it... Not only does it taste awesome, it's super healthy

 

[TODouble2]

bumping a great thread.


my mother just had bloodwork done and her doctor mentioned statins if it didn't come down in 6 months. i told her that doctor is crazy.

her total was 242, triglycerides were 84, HDL was 73, and LDL was 153.

the only thing out of range was LDL and like you said that doesn't tell the whole picture... and her HDL is amazing. just goes to show you what these doctors know. SHIT!

i'm just passing to her the great info you taught me here. thanks john!

 

[profah]

I'm actually involved in a controlled study by Dr. Skip Pope Harrison where he wants to investigate our arteries..

"The problem is we believe the most serious medical dangers are, for example, accelerated hardening of the arteries due to the fact that anabolic steroids mess up your cholesterol fractions. This probably leads to accelerated atherosclerosis, as it is known technically in medicine. The full effect of this is hard to judge because many of the people who have taken steroids haven't gotten old enough yet to enter the period of risk for heart attack or stroke. You can't ethically do a study where you feed large doses of steroids to 50 people and not to 50 others to see what happens to them over 20 years. So as a result, a lot of the scientific speculation about the long-term dangers of steroids rests simply on observational data of people. It's very hard to give precise, quantitative answers to the questions about medical dangers, but just because we don't know the exact magnitude of those dangers is certainly no excuse for assuming they're not there."

Im pretty pumped to help the fellow out, cool guy. In return, we get a serious chunk of cash, blood work, electrocardiogram, echocardiogram and then some. If any one is around the MA State area and wants in, shoot me a PM. There is probably room for about 75-100 more individuals.

 

[matt1164]

I was talking to my daughters endo yesterday and he said there is a correlation between low thyroid and higher cholesterol levels.

has anyone ever heard about this?

 

[Cornelius]

Great thread just one of the reasons I pay for the md club now I eat like this...always have always will but I am curious md do you simply think oral steroids should never be used? Anavar in particular?

 

[nikehotel]

Is 6 weeks long enough to see changes in HDL from Fish oil, Niacin, diet ect? What time frame did most of you see your HDL rise happen in? reading contradictory stuff on the net. Thanks!

 

[mountaindog1]

Great thread just one of the reasons I pay for the md club now I eat like this...always have always will but I am curious md do you simply think oral steroids should never be used? Anavar in particular?

If you don't compete, probably not...if you do...precontest and that's about it. It's not that 4 weeks here or there is that bad..it's the cumulative effect of years and years and years...still even then, I have seen people make some pretty remarkable changes...but when you tell people that they usually say well I'll be a kamikaze and just go nuts until i leave the sport..lol..

 

[mountaindog1]

Is 6 weeks long enough to see changes in HDL from Fish oil, Niacin, diet ect? What time frame did most of you see your HDL rise happen in? reading contradictory stuff on the net. Thanks!

Different for everyone...! My biggest change took about 6 months...HDl went from 20 something to 60 something...heck it might have even been a year..I would have to look through my records...

JM

 

[emeric delczeg]

LDL

High HDL Cholesterol (Hyperalphalipoproteinemia)

High-density lipoprotein (HDL) is positively associated with a decreased risk of coronary heart disease (CHD). As defined by the US National Cholesterol Education Program Adult Treatment Panel III guidelines, an HDL cholesterol level (HDL-C) of 60 mg/dL or greater is a negative (protective) risk factor.[1] On the other hand, a high-risk HDL cholesterol level is described as one that is below 40 mg/dL. Randomized, controlled clinical trials have demonstrated that interventions to raise HDL cholesterol levels are associated with reduced CHD events. A prospective analysis by Mora et al investigated the link between cholesterol and cardiovascular events in women and found baseline HDL-C level was consistently and inversely associated with incident coronary and coronary vascular disease events across a range of low-density lipoprotein-cholesterol (LDL-C) values.[2]

The major apolipoproteins of HDL are apolipoprotein (apo) A-I and apo A-II, the alpha lipoproteins. An elevated concentration of apo A-I and apo A-II is called hyperalphalipoproteinemia (HALP), which is associated with a lower risk CHD. Conversely, hypoalphalipoproteinemia increases the risk of CHD. The levels at which HDL confers benefit or risk are not discrete, and the cut points are somewhat arbitrary, especially considering that HDL levels are, on average, higher in US women compared with men and higher in blacks compared with whites.

Elevated HDL levels are associated with low levels of very low-density lipoprotein cholesterol (VLDL) and triglyceride (TG) levels. LDL-C levels may be within the reference range or elevated. Persons with HALP do not have any unusual clinical features, and the condition should not be considered a disease entity but rather a fortuitous condition that can increase longevity because of the associated decreased incidence of CHD.[3]

HDL is more tightly controlled by genetic factors than are the other lipoproteins (ie, LDL, VLDL, intermediate-density lipoprotein [IDL], and chylomicrons). For example, in certain families, especially some families with Japanese ancestry, a genetic deficiency of cholesteryl ester transfer protein (CETP) is associated with strikingly elevated HDL cholesterol levels.[4]

However, environmental factors also have a significant impact on HDL levels. Factors that elevate HDL concentrations include chronic alcoholism, treatment with oral estrogen replacement therapy, extensive aerobic exercise, and treatment with niacin, statins, or fibrates.[5, 6, 7] On the other hand, smoking reduces levels of HDL cholesterol, while quitting smoking leads to a rise in the plasma HDL level.

Very high levels of HDL cholesterol have been reported to be atherogenic. The mechanism of this paradoxical effect is not entirely clear.


Longevity


The aging process involves damage to the body and DNA so the key to longevity in the short term is limiting that damage, in the long term it involves repairing the body and DNA.

- Resveratol stimulates sirtuin genes linked to DNA repair. (fruit flies living 30-50% longer)
- *Good cholesterol HDL* is linked to longevity. (*people living to 100*)
- Low insoline is linked to longevity. (worms and fruit flies living longer)
- Sleep is linked to DNA repair.
- The secret of red wine. (resveratol and alcohol)
- Alcohol. (HDL boost and reduced dementia)
- Reduced stress and DNA damage
- Social networks and friends
- Digestion and supplements
- Sex and hormones
- Exercise and growth hormone
- The Legend (cholesterol and inflammation)
- A good diet and lower risk of disease

Sirtuin Genes and Resveratol

The sirtuin genes are part of an intricate stretch response or survival mode response. When times are tough they kick in and increase DNA repair or prevent cell death. Some people use calorie restriction in order to trigger the survival mode response and stimulate the sirtuin genes.

Resveratol also stimulates the sirtuin genes without the calorie restriction or survival mode response.
It is similar to calorie restriction but without the calorie restriction.

DAF2 Genes and Insoline

Decreased or low levels of insoline are also linked to longevity.
So a diet the keeps insoline levels low leads to a longer life similar to calorie restriction.

Good Cholesterol (HDL)

High levels of good cholesterol (HDL) are linked to longevity. (people living to 100)

Exercise is linked to higher HDL levels.

- Aerobic exercise, walking, jogging, exercise that raises your heart rate for 20 - 30 minutes at a time may be the most effective way to increase HDL levels. (duration)

A good diet can also reduce bad cholesterol (LDL) and increase good cholesterol (HDL).

- Vitamin B, B3 Niacin, can help lower bad cholesterol (LDL) and boost good (HDL) cholesterol.
- Alcohol, one or two drinks per day can significantly increase HDL levels.
- Omega-3 fatty acids can also increase HDL levels.
- Monounsaturated fats such as olive oil can increase HDL levels without increasing the total cholesterol.
- Soluble fibers such as oats, fruits, vegetables, and legumes can reduction LDL and an increase HDL levels.
- Calcium supplementation can increase HDL levels. (postmenopausal women)
- Cranberry juice has been shown to increase HDL levels.

- Trans fatty acids, partially hydrogenated vegetable oils, can increase LDL and reduce HDL levels.
- Sugar can decrease HDL and increase triglycerides levels.

Lose weight, obesity can increase LDL and reduced HDL levels.

Stop smoking, giving up tobacco will increase HDL levels.

Ultra-low-fat diets have been reported to result in a significant reduction in HDL in some individuals.

Cancer risk is reduced with increased HDL levels.

Detoxification and reduced plaque in blood vessels is linked to HDL cholestrol, the higher the better. (heart disease)

?Bad? LDL Cholesterol May Protect Us Against Cancer | The Alliance for Natural Health USA

 

[mountaindog1]

?Bad? LDL Cholesterol May Protect Us Against Cancer | The Alliance for Natural Health USA

Hi Emeric! How have you been my friend.

There are TONS of studies about why we shouldn't try to drive LDL too low, and cancer is one of them..this is another thing that usually falls on deaf ears.

I remember one thing you said a few years ago that I I thought was excellent. You said that hormones simply need to be in balance. Don't try to eliminate all estrogen, or LDL, or whatever...I thought that was great advice. I am 100% against trying to get LDL to zero.

Sometime this weekend, I'll post alot of interesting and controversial information in this thread about total cholesterol levels, and other stuff.

 

[AlphaMaleDawg]

Different for everyone...! My biggest change took about 6 months...HDl went from 20 something to 60 something...heck it might have even been a year..I would have to look through my records...

JM

It takes that long for HDL to come back up??!! Well that ruined my day

 

[saps]

It takes that long for HDL to come back up??!! Well that ruined my day

At least you know what and how to do things moving forward. Half of it coming back is just now driving it down so much. There is always a trade off if you choose to do things to lower it.

 

[emeric delczeg]

Hi Emeric! How have you been my friend.

There are TONS of studies about why we shouldn't try to drive LDL too low, and cancer is one of them..this is another thing that usually falls on deaf ears.

I remember one thing you said a few years ago that I I thought was excellent. You said that hormones simply need to be in balance. Don't try to eliminate all estrogen, or LDL, or whatever...I thought that was great advice. I am 100% against trying to get LDL to zero.

Sometime this weekend, I'll post alot of interesting and controversial information in this thread about total cholesterol levels, and other stuff.

Hi John, I am OK thank you.

Long as the HDL/LDL ratio is above 0.4