More on PRE-workout SLIN. BBJ and anyone else w experience?

TooPowerful4u · Feb 24, 2005

BBJ mentioned it in an earlier thread and it seemed like a good idea. Iv used slin twice bridging, humalog once and humalin R once. Both times very successful with no fat gain. I figured it would give an even better kick on cycle. The pre-workout method looks like a better idea as BBJ stated keeping you anaboic instead of catabolic(which is what workouts are) and also increasing the pump you can attain by loading muscle w glycogen. Seems BBJ and Kiwi prefer this method with humalin R.

Well what im worried about is im on precontest diet, and it seems tougher to guage carb comsumption with preworkout slin. Seems to me that everyone who has done this overloads the carbs to be safe, but i dont wanna get fat. Is there any guidelines for preworkout slin so you wont go hypo and not gain fat and can still have a kick ass workout w the killer pumps i been hearin bout? OR would u recommend i just do it the traditional post workout way and be safe on the fat gain issue. I only plan to run it weeks 10-6 out.

*ahead of time il state i am actually able to ADD muscle precontest, my weight usually stays the same or +1-4lbs and i drop 7-8%bf so thats my reason for slin precontest, tryin to add a lil extra muscle*

BigBoyJ · Feb 24, 2005

Well, if your diet is in perfect order and you are keeping the post-workout meals completely saturated fat free, then I believe you are actually able to get leaner while on slin...I've done it. That whole bs thing about 10 grams of carbs per iu is crap. It's total overkill. I have found that a lot of times, I don't even need sugar after using slin. If I start feeling hypo, I just use some more whey protein. In my experience a fast acting protien alone was enough to prevent hypo most of the time. I do always use gatorade during the workout, but post workout, very little carbs are necessary. If you start feeling hypo, first just try a little extra protein. If that doesn't fix it, then maybe a quarter of a cup of apple juice.

I'm not sure that pre-contest is the best time to be experimenting for the first time with pre-workout insulin. It is a bit of a learning process and you may be better off getting a feel for it during the off season. Maybe do a mock contest prep a few months after your actual contest. Then you can see exactly what works for you. Otherwise you may miscalculate and mess up your prep.

If you do decide to try it, again, start at a low dose and learn how it feels. Learn exactly what to do to combat hypo without consuming excess carbs. And always remember to keep out the fat in your post-workout meals.

G.E.R.M · Feb 24, 2005

..

used to do 15iu pre...

45min training then carbs and pro

TooPowerful4u · Feb 24, 2005

G.E.R.M said:
used to do 15iu pre...

45min training then carbs and pro

lil more details? How soon pre workout? Did you take in any carbs/pro preworkout. Etc..

Ivan · Feb 24, 2005

humalog

Is it possible to take humalog pre w/o ? If so could you detail a good slin regimen for humalog? Thanks bro.

gooey · Feb 24, 2005

whoa......

BigBoyJ said:
Well, if your diet is in perfect order and you are keeping the post-workout meals completely saturated fat free, then I believe you are actually able to get leaner while on slin...I've done it. That whole bs thing about 10 grams of carbs per iu is crap. It's total overkill. I have found that a lot of times, I don't even need sugar after using slin. If I start feeling hypo, I just use some more whey protein. In my experience a fast acting protien alone was enough to prevent hypo most of the time. I do always use gatorade during the workout, but post workout, very little carbs are necessary. If you start feeling hypo, first just try a little extra protein. If that doesn't fix it, then maybe a quarter of a cup of apple juice.

I'm not sure that pre-contest is the best time to be experimenting for the first time with pre-workout insulin. It is a bit of a learning process and you may be better off getting a feel for it during the off season. Maybe do a mock contest prep a few months after your actual contest. Then you can see exactly what works for you. Otherwise you may miscalculate and mess up your prep.

If you do decide to try it, again, start at a low dose and learn how it feels. Learn exactly what to do to combat hypo without consuming excess carbs. And always remember to keep out the fat in your post-workout meals.

Remem this is all relative to each person no matter drugs or nutrition and or training. Be careful your blood sugar and insulin is very different for each person dont go and take a bunch of slin then find yourself in a coma on the floor in the gym. Be safe, not stupid. The whole point of using that is to become more anabolic and put on tissue, that is hard to while dieting, If u r on a lower carb diet then doing that too, man thats dangerous in my boox, but I am not the most experienced, and if u r getting ready for a show why increase insulin levels, why not stablize them, thats the point of dieting to stablize them so tha u dont have huge fluctuations of blood sugar levels. IMO anyways if u do be careful and be ready in case of going hypo, but be smart dont push things to the limit, some things are not meant to be maniulated to such an extent.
gooey

G.E.R.M · Feb 24, 2005

..

TooPowerful4u said:
lil more details? How soon pre workout? Did you take in any carbs/pro preworkout. Etc..

in the car while in the parking lot or in the locker room.

i ate about 1hr before the gym or more..

Armageddon · Feb 24, 2005

The carbs to iu is crap, atleast for me. I never really found a good median as I quit early on it as I thought I was adding fat. I do less than 10iu's and eat 2 huge swpotatos and would still feel alittle hypo after that. Really silly in the head, wobbly, and blured vision: so I know what was causing that. May give it ago sometime down the line but not at the moment.

Massive G · Feb 24, 2005

Armageddon said:
The carbs to iu is crap, atleast for me. I never really found a good median as I quit early on it as I thought I was adding fat. I do less than 10iu's and eat 2 huge swpotatos and would still feel alittle hypo after that. Really silly in the head, wobbly, and blured vision: so I know what was causing that. May give it ago sometime down the line but not at the moment.

I agree it's highly individualistic.
Also I wouldn't do it contest wise to add more mass as it really slows down fat buring and will hinder fat loss to a degree small enough to influence IMO getting as shredded as possible.

Very experienced users maybe able to do this and control it well but not rookies just starting out with slin.

TooPowerful4u · Feb 24, 2005

Well i gave my contest prep a few weeks head start cuase i planned to do this. Im not terribly lean right now, but i have most of my cuts, prolly around 9-10% bf. I figured the slin would slow my fat burning effects, but i dont think itl STOP my fat burning progression. Il be on clen, ECA stack (although i dont want clen or ECA in my system when slin is), plus cardio every AM empty stomach, and diet will stay strict . Also i plan to control carbs as much as possible on the slin. I might end up doin humalog PW cuase its in and out pretty fast.

BigBoyJ · Feb 25, 2005

gooey said:
Remem this is all relative to each person no matter drugs or nutrition and or training. Be careful your blood sugar and insulin is very different for each person dont go and take a bunch of slin then find yourself in a coma on the floor in the gym. Be safe, not stupid. The whole point of using that is to become more anabolic and put on tissue, that is hard to while dieting, If u r on a lower carb diet then doing that too, man thats dangerous in my boox, but I am not the most experienced, and if u r getting ready for a show why increase insulin levels, why not stablize them, thats the point of dieting to stablize them so tha u dont have huge fluctuations of blood sugar levels. IMO anyways if u do be careful and be ready in case of going hypo, but be smart dont push things to the limit, some things are not meant to be maniulated to such an extent.
gooey

Like I've said all along, START LOW and find how you react. Yes, insulin is going to effect each individual differently as each individual will have varying levels of insulin resistance. All I'm saying is that it IS ok to experiment. And with a little common sense insulin pre-workout can be a very helpfull little tool. I always recommend that anytime anyone starts slin to start at about 2-5 iu's and work up slowly to get a feel for it. Of course you have to be concerned about your health, but if you aren't willing to take ANY chances, then bodybuilding really shouldn't be your sport.

And insulin will NOT stop you from burning fat. Think about it. The slin is active in your system for around 6 hours. That leaves 18 more hours in the day to be in a fat burning state. Insulin pre-workout simply helps to curb the catabolism during the time that you are burning the MOST muscle.

Mr_Magoo · Feb 25, 2005

TooPowerful4u said:
Well i gave my contest prep a few weeks head start cuase i planned to do this. Im not terribly lean right now, but i have most of my cuts, prolly around 9-10% bf. I figured the slin would slow my fat burning effects, but i dont think itl STOP my fat burning progression. Il be on clen, ECA stack (although i dont want clen or ECA in my system when slin is), plus cardio every AM empty stomach, and diet will stay strict . Also i plan to control carbs as much as possible on the slin. I might end up doin humalog PW cuase its in and out pretty fast.

clen has a real long half life

BigBoyJ · Feb 25, 2005

Yeah, the half life of clen is two days, so it'll be in you no matter when you take the slin. But why do you not want them in your system at the same time?

Ackley · Feb 25, 2005

Any of you guys ever use a Blood/Glucose meter to see exactly where you were at ?

What would be the basic starting point for all your sups when taking slin?
I meen like say you start out with 5iu of Humolog where would you want your
Protine , carbs and sugar to be?
Would it be easier to just use shakes as you during and post workout meals?

TooPowerful4u · Feb 25, 2005

BigBoyJ said:
Yeah, the half life of clen is two days, so it'll be in you no matter when you take the slin. But why do you not want them in your system at the same time?

Well i figured the clen would burn up carbs and sugar and make ur more prone to goin hypo, maybe im wrong.

TooPowerful4u · Feb 25, 2005

Ackley said:
Any of you guys ever use a Blood/Glucose meter to see exactly where you were at ?

What would be the basic starting point for all your sups when taking slin?
I meen like say you start out with 5iu of Humolog where would you want your
Protine , carbs and sugar to be?
Would it be easier to just use shakes as you during and post workout meals?

Well i have seen it on a board and if im not mistaken it was almost the same only difference is slin keeps it at that level for a lot longer period. Im going to probably ask my diabetic friend to use his glucomoter and test my blood sugar at different times for a week with slin in my system. Then il test it again when im off slin using a shake. Il post the results up here, should be interesting.

Ethan James · Feb 25, 2005

For most, normal blood glucose levels should be between 85-95 mg/dl
Most people will start to feel a definite difference at around 60-70 mg/dl.

I truly believe that using a rule of 10g of carbs for every 1iu of slin too general of a rule. I've spoken to endocrinologists and they recommend 4oz (30g) of OJ to get a diabetic out of hypoglycemia. That means going from a blood glucose of 30mg/dl to 85-90mg/dl and all it takes is 4oz of OJ...

I also don't think clen is going to have an effect on how you react to the slin. The way I use slin preworkout, is taking a 10iu shot (humalin) about 30-60 minutes before going to the gym. I take with me a bottle of water and a small bottle of OJ or Gatorade. If, during the workout, I feel like my sugar is getting low (and believe me, there is no question of whether it is or isn't, if it does go low you WILL KNOW it) i will take one or two swigs of Oj or gatorade. Then give it 10 minutes to work. If you are still not feeling right, take another gulp. Then give another 10 minutes... etc. Then post-workout, I have shake with 4oz of OJ, 30g maltodextrin, 50g of whey, & 10g of creatine. And no fats for at least another 2 hours.

TooPowerful4u · Feb 25, 2005

Ethan James said:
I also don't think clen is going to have an effect on how you react to the slin. The way I use slin preworkout, is taking a 10iu shot (humalin) about 30-60 minutes before going to the gym. I take with me a bottle of water and a small bottle of OJ or Gatorade. If, during the workout, I feel like my sugar is getting low (and believe me, there is no question of whether it is or isn't, if it does go low you WILL KNOW it) i will take one or two swigs of Oj or gatorade. Then give it 10 minutes to work. If you are still not feeling right, take another gulp. Then give another 10 minutes... etc. Then post-workout, I have shake with 4oz of OJ, 30g maltodextrin, 50g of whey, & 10g of creatine. And no fats for at least another 2 hours.

Thats the plan and detailed explination i was lookin for. I will probably modify it a little. Il do my shot before i leave for the gym (15min ride to the gym) and take with me my N-Large( 92g malto, 50g whey) with another 20g whey added and 10g creatine added. Start sippin on it after about 20min into my workout, then slam the majority of it post workout. Now rule of thumb with Humalin R is that it spikes twice (45min, 2.5hrs) so 1.5 hours after my workout should be the correct time for my solid food fat free meal, so il do a can of tuna and a baked potato. I like to throw in another can of tuna half hr-45min after that meal for good measure with maybe a small apple(like 10-15g). Sound good?

Ethan James · Feb 25, 2005

TooPowerful4u said:
Thats the plan and detailed explination i was lookin for. I will probably modify it a little. Il do my shot before i leave for the gym (15min ride to the gym) and take with me my N-Large( 92g malto, 50g whey) with another 20g whey added and 10g creatine added. Start sippin on it after about 20min into my workout, then slam the majority of it post workout. Now rule of thumb with Humalin R is that it spikes twice (45min, 2.5hrs) so 1.5 hours after my workout should be the correct time for my solid food fat free meal, so il do a can of tuna and a baked potato. I like to throw in another can of tuna half hr-45min after that meal for good measure with maybe a small apple(like 10-15g). Sound good?

That sounds perfect. I feel the Hum-R most at about 1.5-2 hours and again 3.5-4 hours and I put it IM. But everyone is different. So I stay away from fats for the first 4-5 hours after the shot.

Just carry some simple sugar drink with you for 4-5 hours after your shot. If you feel like your sugar is getting low, don't freak out and slam 20oz of gatorade. Drink 3-4 oz and you'll be okay.