MP @ LOW DOSES (WOW)

[goback2013]

i dont think there is.
to be BIG just aint healthy. Porter perfect example sadly.

ANY time i reduced drug intake i got smaller. period. i dont believe its possible to be on 1000mg test and stay same size on 150mg test. how would that be possible?
and you arent gonna grow much on 150mg test so you would have to up dose to add size then health markers start goin south. inevitable.
i am finally over it due to matt's death. not gonna screw around tryin to convince myself i can be healthy AND unnaturally big. i have never been able to for years.... Bp always gets outta whack first....

I have this theory that if you are meant to be a smaller guy and drug and eat yourself to become a big guy i feel its more unhealthy than a guy who has genetics to be big. I feel i am meant to be a thinner guy. I think Matt didnt have gorilla genetics either. For that reason i think the lifestyle is harder on guys like him and I. just a theory... no data to back it up
-F2S

might be controversial, but if you take a step back and look, on average, ethnic groups that usually require larger doses of gear to stay big.

those from the british isles(scots, irish, english, welsh)
spanish(europeans from spain)
french
arabs
ethnic jews
asians(which includes 'indigenous' peoples of the americas)

ethnic groups that usually require smaller doses of gear

nordics
scandanavians
those from eastern block countries
germans
sub-hararan blacks
hawaiians, samoans, tongans, maoris,

 

[Golden]

might be controversial, but if you take a step back and look, on average, ethnic groups that usually require larger doses of gear to stay big.

those from the british isles(scots, irish, english, welsh)
spanish(europeans from spain)
french
arabs
ethnic jews
asians(which includes 'indigenous' peoples of the americas)

ethnic groups that usually require smaller doses of gear

nordics
scandanavians
those from eastern block countries
germans
sub-hararan blacks
hawaiians, samoans, tongans, maoris,

Are germans, french, Spanish and British isles not the same white European ethnic group?

Where’d you get the figures to back those figures up out of interest?

 

[need4tren]

He had an inexhaustible enthusiasm, amazing ability to absorb and sort the different factors of muscle development and fat loss, and an ethic of work out of the ordinary.
But I do not think he had a great genetics in terms of shape, balance... if you reads his firts posts from 2005 in this forum, he said he was ectomorphic, then, used much SEO on his arms, and his legs never had a competitive development. He could have what we call a great mental genetics, but that is only part of the equation necessary to be a successful pro.

I guess that's the difference between someone like Dorian, and the rest. He had the supreme genetics in all the factors: mind, bone structure, muscle balance, stage presence, muscular mass, granulated condition

I think he had a good ability to build muscle. He only really competed for a few years. His shape was pretty dam good esp when he added in gh. Shoulders were huge. He woulda definitely turned pro if he stuck with it. No he didn’t have the best genetics in the world but for your average white guy he did pretty well and the fact he could hold muscle while staying 6 percent year round

 

[BIGGMIKE295]

As far as genetics, I don't think he was a super responder. I believe there was almost no one more anal about the entire umbrella of the program than Matt. This guy crossed all the T's and dotted all the I's. Again, very impressive.

:headbang::yeahthat:

I used to tell him all the time no one is as disciplined as him.
I am really going to miss my bro.
Such an amazing great guy.

 

[Beti ona]

I think he had a good ability to build muscle. He only really competed for a few years. His shape was pretty dam good esp when he added in gh. Shoulders were huge. He woulda definitely turned pro if he stuck with it. No he didn’t have the best genetics in the world but for your average white guy he did pretty well and the fact he could hold muscle while staying 6 percent year round

Well, he could have won the pro card, certainly today is easier than before, but he did not have the best genetic potential. I mean, having the card is one thing, doing well is another.

My point is that if he had been obsessed with the pro card, probably the route to follow is not be to try so many exotic compounds and such anal protocols, but to test, tren, gh, slin... shooting grams and grams.

 

[Beti ona]

might be controversial, but if you take a step back and look, on average, ethnic groups that usually require larger doses of gear to stay big.

those from the british isles(scots, irish, english, welsh)
spanish(europeans from spain)
french
arabs
ethnic jews
asians(which includes 'indigenous' peoples of the americas)

ethnic groups that usually require smaller doses of gear

nordics
scandanavians
those from eastern block countries
germans
sub-hararan blacks
hawaiians, samoans, tongans, maoris,

This is very debatable, the genetics to be big and strong is not the same as the genetics to be athletic/aesthetic. And in bodybuilding you have subjectivity, where one day Ramy wins and another day Rhoden wins.

The Russians, the Germans, the Nordic/Icelanders strongman's, shit, they're taking tons of shit.

Kenyan blacks of marathon, black African-Americans of any athletic modality, take tons of shit.

 

[Delt123]

i dont think there is.
to be BIG just aint healthy. Porter perfect example sadly.

ANY time i reduced drug intake i got smaller. period. i dont believe its possible to be on 1000mg test and stay same size on 150mg test. how would that be possible?
and you arent gonna grow much on 150mg test so you would have to up dose to add size then health markers start goin south. inevitable.
i am finally over it due to matt's death. not gonna screw around tryin to convince myself i can be healthy AND unnaturally big. i have never been able to for years.... Bp always gets outta whack first....

I have this theory that if you are meant to be a smaller guy and drug and eat yourself to become a big guy i feel its more unhealthy than a guy who has genetics to be big. I feel i am meant to be a thinner guy. I think Matt didnt have gorilla genetics either. For that reason i think the lifestyle is harder on guys like him and I. just a theory... no data to back it up
-F2S

Man I thought about that theory too and think you're right! I remember when I was Natural and eating 5k caloriees of shit food to grow, felt unhealthy af. Wasn't even big than and gaining went fairly slow after an initial burst. My body likes being small I guess but it definitely changed a bit when I started the ped route. Can maintain bodyweight with legit trt. My apetite is definitely higher too

 

[jeroendebleser]

i dont think there is.
to be BIG just aint healthy. Porter perfect example sadly.

ANY time i reduced drug intake i got smaller. period. i dont believe its possible to be on 1000mg test and stay same size on 150mg test. how would that be possible?
and you arent gonna grow much on 150mg test so you would have to up dose to add size then health markers start goin south. inevitable.
i am finally over it due to matt's death. not gonna screw around tryin to convince myself i can be healthy AND unnaturally big. i have never been able to for years.... Bp always gets outta whack first....

I have this theory that if you are meant to be a smaller guy and drug and eat yourself to become a big guy i feel its more unhealthy than a guy who has genetics to be big. I feel i am meant to be a thinner guy. I think Matt didnt have gorilla genetics either. For that reason i think the lifestyle is harder on guys like him and I. just a theory... no data to back it up
-F2S

Agreed. The guys with get big genetics will be able to do it with lesser dosages of all the unhealthy stuff (and like you said, it is ALL unhealthy let's not kid ourselves here) than most of us. I did say lesser dosages. Not small dosages.

 

[Beti ona]

Man I thought about that theory too and think you're right! I remember when I was Natural and eating 5k caloriees of shit food to grow, felt unhealthy af.

Totally true, everything will go well at the beginning, while you gain some extra muscle, then you will only gain fat and get sick, unless you make periods of cut and growth, then you will gain a little more muscle in a clean way.

Natty or not, if you start from a poor base, you will always be at a disadvantage and will be forced to force more, which is the opposite of being healthy. Of course, drugs will make this worse.

 

[Elvia1023]

People are too obsessed with what others do. I can understand beginners wanting to know all the pro's secrets etc. But just do you. If you have been at this for many years you should know what works for your body. It's all common sense and the difficulty is in the consistency. I have heard from many that MP had the mental side 100% covered so he would have done everything needed to attain his goals. Most can't eat 7 meals per day at the same times and get up at 6am and do fasted cardio every day and do it all year. Most lack consistency and that's what separates many bodybuilders. Some guys can just get on with it and everything I hear Matt was one of those guys.

Moreover finding out peoples drug stacks etc is also pretty pointless. Fact is they all work and you just have to find which drugs work best for you. Many people also lie but even if x bodybuilder was 100% honest and you copied their drug stack or their "secrets" it doesn't mean you will look anything like them. Just the same as I will never have the calves of x bodybuilder if I follow his calf routine.

It's great and educational to find out what works for everyone but I wouldn't get obsessed with finding out some magic key to unlocking the door of attaining a freaky physique. It's all in front of you written on this forum daily. Fact is to look like Matt did most people need a fair amount of drugs. Some can do it on very little. But no one needs some huge complex drug routine with 4 different orals and 4 sets of pep injs and hgh coupled with mk-677 and slin before all meals etc etc. Man overcomplicate things and miss out the basics.

Sure guys without the genetics need to maximize all areas but at the end of the day it's usually if you have it you have it and if you don't you never will. Nevertheless most (not counting older guys) could get to approx 250 and very lean if they were a bodybuilding slave. Although it may take them 10+ years to do so.

 

[LK3]

This is very debatable, the genetics to be big and strong is not the same as the genetics to be athletic/aesthetic. And in bodybuilding you have subjectivity, where one day Ramy wins and another day Rhoden wins.

The Russians, the Germans, the Nordic/Icelanders strongman's, shit, they're taking tons of shit.

Kenyan blacks of marathon, black African-Americans of any athletic modality, take tons of shit.

lol
really is there any need for more then "this is debateable" when making giant sorta specific statements about the details of people based soly on geografy?

i mean we all know asian cant drive, irish have small dicks and anyone want some fried chicken???... :banghead:

:naughty:
:star-w:rs

 

[Elvia1023]

Agreed. The guys with get big genetics will be able to do it with lesser dosages of all the unhealthy stuff (and like you said, it is ALL unhealthy let's not kid ourselves here) than most of us. I did say lesser dosages. Not small dosages.

Guys without the genetics (and many with them) also have the habit of throwing the kitchen sink at everything (most of us are guilty of this at times). Sometimes less is more but as you state none of this is healthy. I have come across many people who can take a ridiculous amount of drugs and feel ok. Whereas others up their dbol to 50mg and they can't eat anything. I am in the later category now As a result I generally get overall better results from lower doses than high ones. Although it should mean something that literally 95% of the big and lean guys I have come across over the last 10 years take a lot of drugs. Some crazy doses and guys on here see them and think he has amazing genetics but they are/were pushing things to the max as well. There will always be exceptions and that's why everyone should start off low and gradually build up and see how the respond to lower doses first. Move up in small increments and make the most of each dose.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

"Without exception Matt Porter had the most developed musculature I have ever seen with such low doses."


Ok he may have been taking low doses...THAT I don't doubt..... but to "achieve" that developed musculature i'm sure the doses weren't that low...... To HOLD onto muscle is one thing, to CREATE lean muscle tissue is another..... just my .02...

This i agree with

 

[brutus69]

genetics? this guy at my "gym" is 6', 260, 21 in neck and calves, and for the last year felt off. went to an endo, turns out he's hypogonadic.
low test, with that much muscle mass. never touched steroids in his life, was 220 in high school.
all this time , year and a half ive known him
he's low t, and i know muitiple guys on 1.5g a week drugs to look like this guy.
hows that even possible? makes me wonder if test levels really are that important to guys genetically predisposed to being big naturally.
and how, if u aint genetically gifted to begin with, you can forget
about pro cards or making a living off yr looks.

 

[Kaladryn]

I agree. When I deleted a paragraph earlier it included some bits on the SEO usage that he always downplayed earlier on. I called him out on that once. He mentioned it more later in his life though. Not a time for this I will just say he definitely used it a fair amount. Plus some other enhancement agents that he posted about later on before contests particularly in his arms, delts (especially rear) and quads etc. I think he had great genetics to stay lean as he grew amongst many other things but definitely wasn't blessed with great shape like some of the all time greats are. I don't want my post to come off a certain way as I am usually the one backing up his claims about his doses etc but just posting what I think. He seemed like a great guy and looked fantastic (super impressive) as well and is definitely a massive loss to the community.

Oil could easily get into arterial blood and cause a PE from everything I understand. I also think it probably contributes to overall inflammation and would accelerate CAD.

 

[mytreefiddy]

People are too obsessed with what others do. I can understand beginners wanting to know all the pro's secrets etc. But just do you. If you have been at this for many years you should know what works for your body.

You nailed it right here..... it took me a bit to figure this out.... but the key is really paying attention to your body.... I've done so much trial and error the last few years its not even funny.... yes we can say GENERALLY speaking certain things work in certain environments blah blah blah but these "things" are not set in stone.. i'll make a change..whether its food, training, drugs and keep track of what I feel/see... do that for X amount of time.... then make another change for X amount of time...just keep repeating.... I don't feel like its wasting time either...its just learning your body and what works best for ME....

 

[Kaladryn]

One thing I know for sure, NO ONE I have EVER MET in my 30 years of bodybuilding is doing ANYWHERE CLOSE to the dosages people on these forums talk about doing. The internet makes the 99.999th percentile seem like the "norm" or what is "necessary" or what the "secret" is.

(edit) Fuck I just thought of one I met, I used to know a gym 'bro' who thought 1.5g of test was a minimum cycle, but that is the ONLY one lol.

 

[chopsuey]

I've been thinking alot about this and honestly I kind of regret every taking(or to be more precise abusing) steroids, if I knew what I was in for I would of probably never taken them. I was a dumbass 18 year old kid when first introduced by a family member that was far from conservative with doses.

Not that's an excuse, I take responsibility for my decisions but If I knew what I knew now I would of never touched them.

Sure, did some competitions and it was fun. Banged alot of "hot women" I probably wouldn't of been able to otherwise, lots of guys/girls completing me all the time, sure that feels good...

But 13 years later at 31 I think to myself who gives a fuck about that? Women, yeah but most of those were mentally unstable, could of skipped that, I would of much rather settled with a nice girl with a good personality(not that this is a steroid thing but young and full of test/tren makes you think differently)....compliments, who gives a shit....competitions? fun but could of pushed myself in something healthier.

the side effects for me over the years have been not worth it when re-evaluating... bouts of ED when estrogen off, gear related depression, pissy moods pre contest, emotional roller coaster at times etc

2 years ago was in a near fatal car accident that made me re-evaluate things...was in the hospital for months, was basically a vegetable for a while...then come to find my thyroid and hormones were fucked but since living in Asia at the time took forever to find out an by that point I ballooned to a 355 pound obese fat ass...

Lost 160 naturally on trt only (tried a test cycle but too many side effects so cut it short) and now that I'm near my goal here I am on the sauce again(although very light compared to before) doing a pre contest style diet...Bit of an addiction I suppose...Especially when you notice how completely different people treat you from being fatty to jacked guy...

I think after this diet/cycle I'm going to stick to the 10mg a day protocol, 2 iu's of GH and just concentrate on being healthy. Owning my own business I need to be on point 24/7 and frankly I'm getting sick of the roller coaster effect, just want to feel good all the time.

This might not be everyones experience, I know plenty who blast gear and seem to do just fine, and as a side note I'm meticulous with blood work, on average across the past 10 years Ive done bloodwork every 3 months and still I found it hard to manage.

I'm not bashing bodybuilding or competing, I'll probably lift weights until the day I die, i love the way it makes me feel but I think I've just came to the realization that my body can't handle the stress of hormone fluctuations while others can and that I'll just have to accept I'm not going to be one of the biggest guys around anymore an that's okay.

 

[Deleted member 121863]

I`ve never had interaction with Matt but EVERYBODY says he was a great man and we should leave it at that. We ALL have lied at some point about our usage to somebody. Personally I think its best that nobody ever know what dosages he took exactly. That might give some people the green light to do 100mg less and they "will be ok", but that`s not how it works. Way more factors than that. AAS, family history, genetics and his overall size contributed to a negative, fatal cardiac event. Be cautious, be aware, be a little scared, and be safe. This kind of thing happens all the time. Sadly it will not be the last.

 

[BoredStiff]

People are too obsessed with what others do. I can understand beginners wanting to know all the pro's secrets etc. But just do you. If you have been at this for many years you should know what works for your body. It's all common sense and the difficulty is in the consistency.

First off, you mentioned earlier you're not all that, but if that's you in your avi, you look awesome.

I think though for me it's not an obsession, it's just nice to have a template to go off of. There will be genetic freak outliers, but most people will fall into a median range. That way you can say "oh, well it looks like most of the people I want to look like are constantly blasting 700mg of tren.... that's just not something I'm willing to do, so I'll stop chasing that and focus on other fitness goals".

For me, I really like the fitness model look of guys like Rob Riches, Lazar Angelov, Kane Sumabat etc. Now, take a guy like Kane Suamabat, in the last 20 years, I have never NOT seen this guy absolutely shredded and before people yell photoshop, a lot of his instagram posts are videos. Same for Rob Riches, I remember seeing him bulked up back in like 2009 and since then I don't think I've seen him not totally diced up, ever.

So, alls I know is with 20 plus years of training, I'm about their size, and I have ab outlines, and I can get very shredded for a few weeks, but I have never found a way to keep that look ALL year. So what's going on? I've always thought these guys are on genuine TRT (like 100-150mg) and staying on Masteron at around 400mg year round, then adding some anaver or winstrol for shoots. To me that seems the most logical, but again, who knows other than them? if you're a guitarist you can ask someone if they are using EMG or Seymour Duncan pickups and they aren't going to lie and say they are just using what came stock on the guitar, you're going to get a straight up answer. If you ask a Ferrari enthusiast what exhaust he is running, he's going to give you a straight answer. In fitness..... you never know if you're getting the truth or total BS, and that's the frustrating part of this.