My 20 Week Cycle - Please Critique

[John99Test]

Hi

 

[oldfella]

Just shoot enathate once a week. no need to do it twice a week. it is a long acting ester, so no need for twice a week. Save yourself being a pin cushion.
WHat sort of cycle history are we talking here? 800mg/wk to start off seems a bit on the high side.

 

[nosnmiveins]

Just shoot enathate once a week. no need to do it twice a week. it is a long acting ester, so no need for twice a week. Save yourself being a pin cushion.
WHat sort of cycle history are we talking here? 800mg/wk to start off seems a bit on the high side.

not being a dick, but he said this is his 6th cycle. i dont see 800mg/week being a problem

 

[mikeyt869]

ive always thought hcg in pct was suppresive it should be ran throughout the cycle at about 250 iu twice a wk

 

[VTliftVT]

ive always thought hcg in pct was suppresive it should be ran throughout the cycle at about 250 iu twice a wk

Bump, even Dr. Swale say's not to use HCG in PCT. Only use as above. You want your body to produce it's own LH which it has no reason to do with exogenous LH.

 

[syntheticmuscle]

20 Week Lean Mass Cycle

Wk:
1-20 Andropen 550mg/wk
1-20 Testosterone Enanthate 250mg/wk

1st pin – Mon Night: 1ml Andropen (275mg) + ½ ml of Test Ent. (125mg)
2nd pin – Thurs Night: 1ml Andrpen (275mg) + ½ ml of Test Ent. (125mg)
Total: 800mg/wk

8-10 Clenbuterol (120mcgs ED) – *spaced out per day
1-20 Arimidex (0.5mg) ED
1-20 Finasteride (1mg) ED
1-20 Humanofort (200mg) ED

PCT:
1-3 HCG – 250iu ED
1-4 Clomid – 100mg ED (1st Day Frontload at 300mg)

On Hand:
Letrozole
Nolvadex

About Me:
6 Years training experience
6th Cycle
26 years old
6 feet even / 220lbs / 13% Bf

Diet: (Monday Sample)

Breakfast – 5 egg whites (eat one with yolk), bowl of oatmeal, banana

1st Snack – Isopure Dutch Chocolate Shake (50g protein), 2 tuna cups = (30mg)

Lunch – 3 lean grilled chicken breasts, brown rice, and 2 egg whites

2nd Snack – Protein bar and a tunafish sandwish, Isopure Shake

Pre- Workout – NO Explode, 8 ounce glass of water with orange flavored creatine matrix

Post Workout – Isopure Chocolate Shake, Glutamine drink

Dinner – 2 lean grilled chicken breasts, 10 oz lean steak, brown rice, and broccoli.

Before Bed – Caysin Protein Shake, Glutamine Drink, and a Humanofort

Notes:

Thanks for taking a look guys. I know my diet can be better and any suggestions are definitely welcomed. I have heard a lot of good things about LBA’s and am thinking of giving them try. Also, my training routine consists of Monday – Back & Bi’s Tuesday – Off, Wedesday – Chest & Tris, Thursday – Shoulders, Saturday - Legs. Oh...I also take an animal pak everyday too. Any help is appreciated Thanks bros.

LBA's are awesome, why you taking clen weeks 8-10? just curious. Are you prone to gyno? You might be ok with just .5 adex eod. I think you need more humanofort than that if you're going to use it. I take 600mg a day when I was on then dropped it down to 400 when I came off. Just my.02 Take care

 

[oldfella]

not being a dick, but he said this is his 6th cycle. i dont see 800mg/week being a problem

fair enough I did not read the 6th cycle. Been on and off for twenty years. Cycle count......????? I have never had to use 800mg to grow. When i tried high doses I felt like crap and got more sides than gains. 500mg/wk would be plenty. I am not a huge fan of muliti estered test. I thnk it is too hard to maintain steady levels with it and you end up having to use too much. Then you get the sides. A single estered test is better for maintaining steady levels in your system.

 

[Force245]

Just shoot enathate once a week. no need to do it twice a week. it is a long acting ester, so no need for twice a week. Save yourself being a pin cushion.
WHat sort of cycle history are we talking here? 800mg/wk to start off seems a bit on the high side.

Oldfella, I respect your opinion on once a week, but I disagree. Yes you can shout once a week, but I think twice a week is better to keep blood level more stable. 500 once a week with a half life of around seven day is going to cause a lot of up and down is blood levels. a smaller dose, 250 twice a week is definately more stable.

 

[oldfella]

Oldfella, I respect your opinion on once a week, but I disagree. Yes you can shout once a week, but I think twice a week is better to keep blood level more stable. 500 once a week with a half life of around seven day is going to cause a lot of up and down is blood levels. a smaller dose, 250 twice a week is definately more stable.

In the case of enanthate we are talking of an active life of 15 days. So shooting every seven puts you in the half life of this compound. Everytime you shoot every seven days you are overlapping halflives and keeping levels high. I have never had a problem with this method and it seems to reduce the aromatizing effect due to having too much test in your system that cannot be utilized. IMO if you want good stable levels throughout your cycle then use propionate. EOD will keep your levels high, very low chances of too much test in your system at one time (unless you are silly with your doseing) and you will get some great results with around 500-600mg/wk. You just have to be able to handle eod shooting. 250mg/twice weekly with enanthate is a viable option as well, at least the dose is sane and should not pose too much problems for many.

 

[Raging Bull]

Oldfella, I respect your opinion on once a week, but I disagree. Yes you can shout once a week, but I think twice a week is better to keep blood level more stable. 500 once a week with a half life of around seven day is going to cause a lot of up and down is blood levels. a smaller dose, 250 twice a week is definately more stable.

My thoughts exactly....and all my Bros' think I'm crazy for doing multiple injections every week.

 

[RINO]

Yeah, I like mon,wed,fri pins even if it's long acting.I just split It all up evenly.
Maybe it's in my head. But seems to give fewer spots .

 

[OuchThatHurts]

Oldfella, I respect your opinion on once a week, but I disagree. Yes you can shout once a week, but I think twice a week is better to keep blood level more stable. 500 once a week with a half life of around seven day is going to cause a lot of up and down is blood levels. a smaller dose, 250 twice a week is definately more stable.

A lot of guys feel like you do. But the bloodwork will prove you wrong. Oldfella is right. By the third of fourth week, steady state plasma levels are reached either way with a long-acting form of T like enanthate. If you're going to do every other day or three times a week, use a propionate or suspension. Not to mention with those shorter esters, you're getting more T mg per mg. Especially with suspension. Why buy a long-acting formulation of T only to use it like a short-acting one? In any case, you should do what you feel is best for you but just know that there's nothing to back that up.

What difference do you think it makes over the course of a month whether you shot once a week or three times a week with something that stays in you for many weeks? It's still the same amount and yes it's still in there. Sometimes I think guys just get comfort from knowing you just injected a day or two ago. Sort of a psychological boost.

My thoughts exactly....and all my Bros' think I'm crazy for doing multiple injections every week.

LOL... I'd think that too! I wouldn't be patting you on that shoulder saying, "You must be some kind of genius!"

John99test: You need to hire a professional to design something for you. That whole thing looks pretty shabby. I think you could do a lot better. Your PCT is all wrong and you have no tapering or anything. Plus your taking wacky Andropen... If that's what you have, you can make it work but there's better things available. It looks like a gainer but you have clen in there... just front to back. You need to go back to the drawing board on that one my man.

I think it would be beneficial to you in the long run. I do like that you've chosen testosterone and that is what you're going with. I think that's a good move. I'd get more hCG though because your testes will thank by the time you reach week 20.

 

[markl]

Ditch all the junk and just stick with the test at 500-750mgs for the first 8-10 weeks then drop it down to 250mg for the rest of the cycle. Throw in some eq or deca for the first part of cycle if you want. Save all the anti estros. for after the cyle when you'll need it most, same with the hcg and the rest.

 

[oldfella]

Just my opinion here but since you do not seem to mind multiple injections pr week and you do have some cycle history, why not go ahead with something like t/prop. I really think you will experience better gains on that one. Or just use a long estered test like cyp or enanth for the entire cycle. The andropen will have you all over the place levels wise. Slow and steady wins the race everytime!!

 

[Force245]

In the case of enanthate we are talking of an active life of 15 days. So shooting every seven puts you in the half life of this compound. Everytime you shoot every seven days you are overlapping halflives and keeping levels high. I have never had a problem with this method and it seems to reduce the aromatizing effect due to having too much test in your system that cannot be utilized. IMO if you want good stable levels throughout your cycle then use propionate. EOD will keep your levels high, very low chances of too much test in your system at one time (unless you are silly with your doseing) and you will get some great results with around 500-600mg/wk. You just have to be able to handle eod shooting. 250mg/twice weekly with enanthate is a viable option as well, at least the dose is sane and should not pose too much problems for many.

Very true, and I respect that. I wish I could find a doctor to do my blood work and have everything secure. I might try that online service. My main thing is trying to keep blood levels true. While there will always be a slight varience, except for ED pins, I would like to try to keep the level some what consistent.

I have graphed the once a week shot and twice a week shot. While I know these are theoretical, it shows my point, but I am still open to your point as blood work is always scientific proof. I am glad this came up cause it serves as a great learning experience for all.


SO OTH or OF, do you all have access to any bloodwork or know somewhere on the web or anything.Casue I would love to read and research it for knowledge.

 

[Raging Bull]

A lot of guys feel like you do. But the bloodwork will prove you wrong. Oldfella is right. By the third of fourth week, steady state plasma levels are reached either way with a long-acting form of T like enanthate. If you're going to do every other day or three times a week, use a propionate or suspension. Not to mention with those shorter esters, you're getting more T mg per mg. Especially with suspension. Why buy a long-acting formulation of T only to use it like a short-acting one? In any case, you should do what you feel is best for you but just know that there's nothing to back that up.

What difference do you think it makes over the course of a month whether you shot once a week or three times a week with something that stays in you for many weeks? It's still the same amount and yes it's still in there. Sometimes I think guys just get comfort from knowing you just injected a day or two ago. Sort of a psychological boost.

LOL... I'd think that too! I wouldn't be patting you on that shoulder saying, "You must be some kind of genius!"

John99test: You need to hire a professional to design something for you. That whole thing looks pretty shabby. I think you could do a lot better. Your PCT is all wrong and you have no tapering or anything. Plus your taking wacky Andropen... If that's what you have, you can make it work but there's better things available. It looks like a gainer but you have clen in there... just front to back. You need to go back to the drawing board on that one my man.

I think it would be beneficial to you in the long run. I do like that you've chosen testosterone and that is what you're going with. I think that's a good move. I'd get more hCG though because your testes will thank by the time you reach week 20.

Yeah, I am a little over the edge. But I am the guy who put 100 pounds on in 5 years, 185 to 280 and kept it on. I wonder why I'm the only one of my bros who grew??? If ya wanna get freaky, ya gotta do freaky shit.

 

[oldfella]

Even in theory I think your graph may be off. To determine how the levels peak and trough you would need to know the rate of dispersion into the body each day, how much test is circulating at any given time, and then your graph does not take into account the overlapping of half lives of the compound. As Ouch Said, after three maybe four weeks you would have 3 to 4 overlaps and this would rasie those levels significantly. You are correct, the only way one could actually substantiate the argument for multi pinning of a long estered test is to have blood drawn every week and checked for total test and free test. In your graph the drops are very dramatic, I doubt the drops after three or four weeks would look anything like your graph. It would probably resemble a slow steady upward curve, plateau then a gradual down ward curve till after 6 -8 weeks from your last pinning it would be at the bottom.

 

[oldfella]

Yeah, I am a little over the edge. But I am the guy who put 100 pounds on in 5 years, 185 to 280 and kept it on. I wonder why I'm the only one of my bros who grew??? If ya wanna get freaky, ya gotta do freaky shit.

There could be any number of reasons why you got the dramatic results that none of your "bros" got. Your nutrition may have been much tighter and better than theirs. Your genetics may have had a lot to do with it. Your training may have been more intense than theirs, even if you did train together. Just My Opinion, I doubt that pinning a long estered test mulitple times a week had that much to do with your success, again just my opinion. It is knowing the nature of the beast that draws my conclusion to this.
Cheers fellas!

 

[Thor]

YOU KNOW IT !

Even in theory I think your graph may be off. To determine how the levels peak and trough you would need to know the rate of dispersion into the body each day, how much test is circulating at any given time, and then your graph does not take into account the overlapping of half lives of the compound. As Ouch Said, after three maybe four weeks you would have 3 to 4 overlaps and this would rasie those levels significantly. You are correct, the only way one could actually substantiate the argument for multi pinning of a long estered test is to have blood drawn every week and checked for total test and free test. In your graph the drops are very dramatic, I doubt the drops after three or four weeks would look anything like your graph. It would probably resemble a slow steady upward curve, plateau then a gradual down ward curve till after 6 -8 weeks from your last pinning it would be at the bottom.

I totally agree with OF on this one, no way is that graph accurate.

 

[batman]

Bump, even Dr. Swale say's not to use HCG in PCT. Only use as above. You want your body to produce it's own LH which it has no reason to do with exogenous LH.

hcg is to be ran during the cycle like you said to maintain the boys natural wonder and for PRE PCT. never for PCT.