My conversation with an ex 2000's pro

[bigdog123]

I have a theory/opinion on some of this.

There are 2 types of physiques which turn out to be monster’ish.

1- The guys who look like they can hold it. Symmetry and aesthetics still seem okay, yet they’re monsters.

2- 10lbs of shit shoved in a 5lb bag.

I’ve been in the game for about 20 years. They guys who use gear, look good, then explode into “10lbs of shit shoved in a 5lb bag” in a matter of 2 years... tend to be in the upper levels of abuse. The tissue almost doesn’t even look right on the body. This never happened in the 90’s and early 2000’s to guys who focused on training, eating, and ordinary cycles.

If you compare the physique of someone like an Ed Nunn to any young white dude who’s a SHW, the young white dude (9/10 times) at the same weight will look “off”.

I don’t mean that all people in certain categories are the same, plenty of “pretty” physiques also abuse. It just seems like we look beyond some of the extreme abuse in the moment, cheer for a guy, then are shocked when he has major health problems. We’d like to believe that it’s all hard training and food pushing, but it isn’t.

good post this one.

If it was all food and training natural guys would be 250 peeled.

drugs play a huge role but like you say it can still look like shit on the wrong physique.

Guys now are monster.. Gh and slin is a huge player

 

[RDS]

Everyone always talks about how pros lie about their dosages, i have talked with several pros that I know that were dead honest with me (some I had talked to their prep coach first). Hell Jay Cutler was a little too honest with me and told me waaaayyyy more than I needed to know..LOL
If your a young guy or someone that looks like they just found the gym then yea some pro probably isn't going to tell you much for your own damn good.

wait a minute... you ARE a pro! Clearly you are part of the global conspiracy among professional bodybuilders to lie to us average joes about their real doses and stop us from getting swole.

God damn bodybuilding illuminati

 

[11111]

I have a theory/opinion on some of this.

There are 2 types of physiques which turn out to be monster’ish.

1- The guys who look like they can hold it. Symmetry and aesthetics still seem okay, yet they’re monsters.

2- 10lbs of shit shoved in a 5lb bag.

I’ve been in the game for about 20 years. They guys who use gear, look good, then explode into “10lbs of shit shoved in a 5lb bag” in a matter of 2 years... tend to be in the upper levels of abuse. The tissue almost doesn’t even look right on the body. This never happened in the 90’s and early 2000’s to guys who focused on training, eating, and ordinary cycles.

If you compare the physique of someone like an Ed Nunn to any young white dude who’s a SHW, the young white dude (9/10 times) at the same weight will look “off”.

I don’t mean that all people in certain categories are the same, plenty of “pretty” physiques also abuse. It just seems like we look beyond some of the extreme abuse in the moment, cheer for a guy, then are shocked when he has major health problems. We’d like to believe that it’s all hard training and food pushing, but it isn’t.

very interesting Dave. have never thought about it like this, but i know exactly what you're saying

 

[b-boy]

I have a theory/opinion on some of this.

There are 2 types of physiques which turn out to be monster’ish.

1- The guys who look like they can hold it. Symmetry and aesthetics still seem okay, yet they’re monsters.

2- 10lbs of shit shoved in a 5lb bag.

I’ve been in the game for about 20 years. They guys who use gear, look good, then explode into “10lbs of shit shoved in a 5lb bag” in a matter of 2 years... tend to be in the upper levels of abuse. The tissue almost doesn’t even look right on the body. This never happened in the 90’s and early 2000’s to guys who focused on training, eating, and ordinary cycles.

If you compare the physique of someone like an Ed Nunn to any young white dude who’s a SHW, the young white dude (9/10 times) at the same weight will look “off”.

I don’t mean that all people in certain categories are the same, plenty of “pretty” physiques also abuse. It just seems like we look beyond some of the extreme abuse in the moment, cheer for a guy, then are shocked when he has major health problems. We’d like to believe that it’s all hard training and food pushing, but it isn’t.

Good to see you posting bro! Is your big ass still submitting people...LOL

 

[Big Dave Smith]

Good to see you posting bro! Is your big ass still submitting people...LOL

This happened a few weeks ago. Still trying to maintain in bodybuilding, though. 255-260’ish, depending on the day.

 

[Pissbrainiac259]

I bet with many of these pro encounters they just don't want to say that they are doing anything illegal to someone that they don't even know. Just keep that in consideration.

Honestly when someone I don't know asks, I tell them I just do yoga and don't lift. Maybe they are running off to a message board and saying yoga is the key to hypertrophy or something.

LMFAO!!! I just do yoga and pilates. Too funny.

 

[thethinker48]

I have a theory/opinion on some of this.

There are 2 types of physiques which turn out to be monster’ish.

1- The guys who look like they can hold it. Symmetry and aesthetics still seem okay, yet they’re monsters.

2- 10lbs of shit shoved in a 5lb bag.

I’ve been in the game for about 20 years. They guys who use gear, look good, then explode into “10lbs of shit shoved in a 5lb bag” in a matter of 2 years... tend to be in the upper levels of abuse. The tissue almost doesn’t even look right on the body. This never happened in the 90’s and early 2000’s to guys who focused on training, eating, and ordinary cycles.

If you compare the physique of someone like an Ed Nunn to any young white dude who’s a SHW, the young white dude (9/10 times) at the same weight will look “off”.

I don’t mean that all people in certain categories are the same, plenty of “pretty” physiques also abuse. It just seems like we look beyond some of the extreme abuse in the moment, cheer for a guy, then are shocked when he has major health problems. We’d like to believe that it’s all hard training and food pushing, but it isn’t.

Good to see you post bro. Congrats on the black belt promotion.

There's a "tired" look to a lot of the physiques you're talking about as well

Guys hitting the gas very hard usually get it within a short period of time. Big, lean, but "off" like you said. Maybe that's excess tissue built too fast, or a sign their bodies wont be able to keep it up.

 

[danieltx]

This happened a few weeks ago. Still trying to maintain in bodybuilding, though. 255-260’ish, depending on the day.

Looking great Dave. I'm on my way though the 270s for the first time right now and have been reading old content from superheavyweights on various boards in my spare time - last night I read one on Intense Muscle from around 2007 where Dante Trudel talked about coaching you. Great to see you maintaining so well after all these years.

There's a "tired" look to a lot of the physiques you're talking about as well

Can you post an example of a 'tired' look?

 

[thethinker48]

Looking great Dave. I'm on my way though the 270s for the first time right now and have been reading old content from superheavyweights on various boards in my spare time - last night I read one on Intense Muscle from around 2007 where Dante Trudel talked about coaching you. Great to see you maintaining so well after all these years.



Can you post an example of a 'tired' look?

Dallas (RIP) in 2016

vs

2017



He made changes in his coaches during these years if I'm not wrong. 2012 to 2016 were the biggest jumps in size, and presumably some questionable things done to get there given his earlier mentors.

He placed and looked better in 2017 (duh, 1 more year to get better anyone would say, but a shift in coaching also occurred). I also say this PURELY from a speculation standpoint, these are some things to notice with guys who have blown up in crazy size (Compton, Dallas), Jason Huh I think also only competed for 3 years as a pro before walking away.

This is a bodybuilding forum, and more than anything all of us admire and respect the progress people are able to make so I'm hoping this doesn't come across as some anti-bodybuilding jargon. Just my personal opinion on this (for whatever that's worth).

 

[thethinker48]

Edit: In 2016 I think he was with MJ, then Chad, and back to MJ by later 2017. I'm sure some changes to things were brought forth given the health issues that were starting to come up. Also hope this doesn't turn into another guess the dose thread; not my intention or direction for conversation, mods pls delete my post if you think it's out of place.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

I always look at these threads and see the guys who scream at the top of their lungs that all the pro's lie and think....

a) Dont you think these pro's had friends who took the very same things and lifted and wanted the "dream" just like they did? How come they didnt get even remotely close to making it? I trained with a bunch of buddies when i was younger. I am sure BBoy, Dave Smith, Daniel, thinker, Bio etc etc etc did also. In my case we went in on the gear and we all used pretty much the same things. You dont think all these pros had training partners and close friends doing the EXACT same drugs and dosages they did? Where are those training partners and friends? Where are their pro cards? How come most of them couldnt even win their class in a local show? I saw two roommates once share a couple of bottles of oral winstrol...one guy was a mesomorph, one guy was kind of an ecto/endomorph....They split the bottles....this was in a small town where juice was really hard to come by and I ABSOLUTELY KNOW that they could not get anything else. The mesomorph gained something like 26 freaking pounds. the ecto/endo guy gained like 2 lbs. GENETICS. You dont think every damn pro bodybuilder doesnt have friends and training partners willing to go to any length to be the best bodybuilder they can be? Why dont all pro bodybuilders best/close friends and training partners have pro cards?

 

[td]

Dante,

I know you get tired of these threads... But both of those things can be true. If you don't have the raw genetic potential to be a very good bodybuilder, you cannot drug yourself to that level.

Part of the genetic discussion should be how effective these compounds are on your body.

At the same time, pros preaching low doses can also be lying. A professional athlete in an untested competition isn't going to do everything in their power to be the best possible? Perhaps some of the family men aren't willing to accept risk. But many aren't loaded to the gills? When the incentive lies in placing better? Color me skeptical. Claiming low doses essentially is marketing for coaching services.

When we see very high level amateurs make step changes in development in a short amount of time, it doesn't seem unlikely that they stepped on the gas. If they have genetic potential and already had training and diet dialed, what's left?

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

There is no freaking question that some guys use a boatload of sauce. I just get irritated when I see people make a suggestion that the sole reason someone is at this certain level is because he dares to abuse himself and if he says otherwise "obviously he is lying".....when the truth is on the other side of the coin, they have had a bunch of friends around them that tried their hardest to become an elite bodybuilder and used a bunch of drugs and didnt amount to jack crap. Its like some guys in this forum think "if they just used enough gear" they too would look just like Ronnie, Ramy and Kai. Thats why i always get a chuckle when things happen like the 2016 USA and all these known guys are gunning for the title openly and then " a freaking monster with insane genetics like Rasheed Oldacre " shows up and ruins everyones apple cart. There is nothing anyone can do against a guy like that...NOTHING. He will walk into a gym and be the biggest guy within a short amount of time...and he will run right thru contests and crush people continually because of the incredible separation of genetics...and there is nothing anyone can do to outdrug him to rival the size of a monster like that. That guy apples to apples and oranges to oranges and 750 test and 400 deca to someone in this forum 750 test and 400 deca...will absolutely make anyone look like a child next to him. It is what it is

 

[thethinker48]

There is no freaking question that some guys use a boatload of sauce. I just get irritated when I see people make a suggestion that the sole reason someone is at this certain level is because he dares to abuse himself and if he says otherwise "obviously he is lying".....when the truth is on the other side of the coin, they have had a bunch of friends around them that tried their hardest to become an elite bodybuilder and used a bunch of drugs and didnt amount to jack crap. Its like some guys in this forum think "if they just used enough gear" they too would look just like Ronnie, Ramy and Kai. Thats why i always get a chuckle when things happen like the 2016 USA and all these known guys are gunning for the title openly and then " a freaking monster with insane genetics like Rasheed Oldacre " shows up and ruins everyones apple cart. There is nothing anyone can do against a guy like that...NOTHING. He will walk into a gym and be the biggest guy within a short amount of time...and he will run right thru contests and crush people continually because of the incredible separation of genetics...and there is nothing anyone can do to outdrug him to rival the size of a monster like that. That guy apples to apples and oranges to oranges and 750 test and 400 deca to someone in this forum 750 test and 400 deca...will absolutely make anyone look like a child next to him. It is what it is

Only in bodybuilding too...

Nobody watches the last dance and says: "You know, maybe I could take Michael Jordan in a one on one if I had enough time"

And bodybuildings even more reliant on genetics than most skill based sports. There is no skill in this hobby, you pick stuff up, you eat food, you sleep and you take drugs. All the big guys do the same things. But some are freaks, some are really big, some are kind of big, and some should've picked another sport.

 

[opietaylor]

There is no freaking question that some guys use a boatload of sauce. I just get irritated when I see people make a suggestion that the sole reason someone is at this certain level is because he dares to abuse himself and if he says otherwise "obviously he is lying".....when the truth is on the other side of the coin, they have had a bunch of friends around them that tried their hardest to become an elite bodybuilder and used a bunch of drugs and didnt amount to jack crap. Its like some guys in this forum think "if they just used enough gear" they too would look just like Ronnie, Ramy and Kai. Thats why i always get a chuckle when things happen like the 2016 USA and all these known guys are gunning for the title openly and then " a freaking monster with insane genetics like Rasheed Oldacre " shows up and ruins everyones apple cart. There is nothing anyone can do against a guy like that...NOTHING. He will walk into a gym and be the biggest guy within a short amount of time...and he will run right thru contests and crush people continually because of the incredible separation of genetics...and there is nothing anyone can do to outdrug him to rival the size of a monster like that. That guy apples to apples and oranges to oranges and 750 test and 400 deca to someone in this forum 750 test and 400 deca...will absolutely make anyone look like a child next to him. It is what it is

the dream crusher, lol. i love brutal honesty.

 

[b-boy]

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Some very good points in this and relates to what I've always said, you may not have the genetic shape and muscle bellies to be an IFBB pro but you can over time build a fuck ton of mass on your frame, some faster than others but each and everyone of you if you put in the TIME and the effort can build a large fucking physique, some just aren't prepared or dedicated to put in the TIME, consistency, and brutal effort to do it

 

[bigdog123]

All pros take a lot of drugs, fact.

Without the drugs they wouldn't be pros.

Having said that a lot of non pros take loads of drugs too.

like top sprinters.. They all take drugs. But a lot of other sprinters also take a lot of drugs and don't make it to the top.

 

[USMuscle9403]

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Some very good points in this and relates to what I've always said, you may not have the genetic shape and muscle bellies to be an IFBB pro but you can over time build a fuck ton of mass on your frame, some faster than others but each and everyone of you if you put in the TIME and the effort can build a large fucking physique, some just aren't prepared or dedicated to put in the TIME, consistency, and brutal effort to do it

Yep, just look at Dave Palumbo. Fuck tons of mass, but a very unfortunate looking man.

I mean...he was like...really vascular...

... And shit.

 

[showstopper83]

Everyone always talks about how pros lie about their dosages, i have talked with several pros that I know that were dead honest with me (some I had talked to their prep coach first). Hell Jay Cutler was a little too honest with me and told me waaaayyyy more than I needed to know..LOL
If your a young guy or someone that looks like they just found the gym then yea some pro probably isn't going to tell you much for your own damn good.

Let me ask you this bro- without getting into, or it even mattering what ______ pro takes, would agree that high dosages start becoming a waste without highly elevated gh/igf-1 levels to make use of the nutrients you use?

And correct mineral balance (magnesium, zinc, copper) to regulate things like cortisol and insulin?

Because ive tried "eating and training my ass off" and if you're suffering from adrenal fatigue, high cortisol and fucked insulin sensitivity, it can still be counterproductive.

 

[11111]

Let me ask you this bro- without getting into, or it even mattering what ______ pro takes, would agree that high dosages start becoming a waste without highly elevated gh/igf-1 levels to make use of the nutrients you use?

And correct mineral balance (magnesium, zinc, copper) to regulate things like cortisol and insulin?

Because ive tried "eating and training my ass off" and if you're suffering from adrenal fatigue, high cortisol and fucked insulin sensitivity, it can still be counterproductive.

Obviously I’m not Bboy but on a recent podcast with found abiad Patrick tuor talked about how important gh is for making significant quality gains in size.