My current off season Diet.

[Tough Old Man]

Please show me where I said Heinz is udder stupid and I will answer your question. Here is the reason why you ask so many questions and are confused. YOU DO NOT KNOW HOW TO READ PROPERLY. I have a question 4 U. Are you in grade school?

No place did you quote that. What you said quote in quote is " TO SAY THAT HEINZ KNOWS WHAT HE IS DOING IS UDDER STUPIDITY". Entirely two different things.

 

[Tough Old Man]

Well the fact of the matter is I do know what is going on with my trainees, I do talk to other trainers on this matter in detail (skip, trop), Phil told me exactly what he did back in the day and still noone here believes my ass....so its pretty much a moot point isnt it.

I guess its one of those things where people think "I do it so everyone else must do it, i dont give a shit what they say otherwise, they must be lying"...yet still noone on this thread answered why over the last 5 years of this board with all the guys on here that use huge amounts, noone has shook up the bodybuilding world.

Ole Skip could really fuck up some ego's on this board if he decided to post some things he has first hand knowledge of and I mean bigtime.

Thank you Dante. I finally got something right.

 

[bigheinz]

GUAAAAUUUU!!!!

This thread went to far, dont you think???

I will post my last blod test.....BUT Please....

DONT FIGHT ANYMORE!!!

I AM SO SORRY.

 

[JETHRO TULL]

"UDDERLY STUPID"....HAHAHA...GUYS, GUYS, COWS HAVE UDDERS!

.....YOU MEAN "UTTERLY STUPID"...

I keep laughing and I lose my ability to comprehend what I am reading....lol..

 

[Magnum]

Oh god I wish I could comment on this and disprove you on this point so badly with 3 very known names, but alas I cant tell someone elses business or involve them in this conversation on a name basis. I stated what I did as far as amounts on a basis of superheavyweights and big heavyweights....if we are talking lightheavies and middleweights then that test dosage is in most cases even lower. I challenge you guys--absolutely challenge you....at your very heaviest with whatever your doing sauce wise go down to 600mg test and 400mg deca and stay there for 2 months.....let me know how you disenegrate (you wont)--youll lose a little bit of water bloat and thats about it. You will absolutely not drop 25lbs in muscle mass and probably will stay within 3-5lbs of your "abusive" dosage if you eat the same train the same etc (and I suspect youll feel really stupid about abusing yourself at that point)

I can certainly believe that their are some guys out there that do not need to take a ton of stuff. My wife was certainly not a mass monster, but she never took anything and compteted totally natural until her last show (1993) and that was just some clen 6 weeks out. She has never taken a diuretic in her entire competitve career and up until 2004 she never used protein powders or supplements. Most people would never believe it so I just keep it to myself.

Some people take tons of stuff and some don't. I'm not on anyone's side, that's just the way it is. I think Bigheinz is a good guy and it is totally his decision. Like I had mentioned before, I have had a couple of guys sugar coat how much that they were on. I think for fear that I would think they were crazy, but who knows. The debate will go on forever.

One thing that you might want to consider with the lower does that you recommended. Most guys who are on large amounts of test need to be off it for many months so even if they lower their doses for 2 months they will still have a ton of test floating around in their system. Sometimes things on paper such as half life of drugs do not always ring true in real life. For example, a friend of mine years ago got into some trouble. When he intitially got his blood work done his test ratio was 25:1. After a year he got tested again. The only time actually and his levels were still at 12:1. The kid was still pretty big and strong. He didn't lose a heck of a lot of size from just being off completley for a year. He was taking about 3-4 grams total a week initially.

My point is that put a guy on 600 mg of test and 400mg of deca who has never been on before and he will get pretty big. Once his gains stop I will guarentee that if you double his doses he will start to grow again, but do this to someone who had beem megadosing for a while and it would not matter if he was on 600mg of test and 400mg of deca or clean for two months. He has way too much residual drugs in his sytem regardless. Of course there is going to be a point where a person will stop growing no matter how high dose you go. This is true for everyone.

 

[Magnum]

This thread went to far, dont you think???

I will post my last blod test.....BUT Please....

DONT FIGHT ANYMORE!!!

I AM SO SORRY.

No worries bro. I'm sure that everyone here likes you, we just have different opinions that's all. Personally I think you need to stop being a wimp and double you're doses!! That was a joke.

 

[Big Bapper]

I can certainly believe that their are some guys out there that do not need to take a ton of stuff. My wife was certainly not a mass monster, but she never took anything and compteted totally natural until her last show (1993) and that was just some clen 6 weeks out. She has never taken a diuretic in her entire competitve career and up until 2004 she never used protein powders or supplements. Most people would never believe it so I just keep it to myself.

Some people take tons of stuff and some don't. I'm not on anyone's side, that's just the way it is. I think Bigheinz is a good guy and it is totally his decision. Like I had mentioned before, I have had a couple of guys sugar coat how much that they were on. I think for fear that I would think they were crazy, but who knows. The debate will go on forever.

One thing that you might want to consider with the lower does that you recommended. Most guys who are on large amounts of test need to be off it for many months so even if they lower their doses for 2 months they will still have a ton of test floating around in their system. Sometimes things on paper such as half life of drugs do not always ring true in real life. For example, a friend of mine years ago got into some trouble. When he intitially got his blood work done his test ratio was 25:1. After a year he got tested again. The only time actually and his levels were still at 12:1. The kid was still pretty big and strong. He didn't lose a heck of a lot of size from just being off completley for a year. He was taking about 3-4 grams total a week initially.

My point is that put a guy on 600 mg of test and 400mg of deca who has never been on before and he will get pretty big. Once his gains stop I will guarentee that if you double his doses he will start to grow again, but do this to someone who had beem megadosing for a while and it would not matter if he was on 600mg of test and 400mg of deca or clean for two months. He has way too much residual drugs in his sytem regardless. Of course there is going to be a point where a person will stop growing no matter how high dose you go. This is true for everyone.

Good post very intresting.

 

[bigheinz]

No worries bro. I'm sure that everyone here likes you, we just have different opinions that's all. Personally I think you need to stop being a wimp and double you're doses!! That was a joke.

Talking about jokes....but:
I was in Golds Gym in Venice Cal (1994), training with Mike Mentzer and Flex Wheler and Poul Dillet were training with Charles Glass, they were asking to Poul Dillet to make another heavier set in the cable rows and he sayd to Flex " No way i am going home and take a double dosis...you train harder"

Mike metzer told me " You see they cant train hard, that is why they talk shit about Heavy Duty " and he sayd in spanish " becouse they are a MARICAS(PUSYS) that cant do it"

 

[PHIL HERNON]

WELL THATS OK BUT

Talking about jokes....but:
I was in Golds Gym in Venice Cal (1994), training with Mike Mentzer and Flex Wheler and Poul Dillet were training with Charles Glass, they were asking to Poul Dillet to make another heavier set in the cable rows and he sayd to Flex " No way i am going home and take a double dosis...you train harder"

Mike metzer told me " You see they cant train hard, that is why they talk shit about Heavy Duty " and he sayd in spanish " becouse they are a MARICAS(PUSYS) that cant do it"

FLEX AND I GREW UP TOGETHER IN FRESNO , CA. WE TRAINED TOGETHER. FLEX TRAINED HARD, NO DOUBT ABOUT IT. MIKE MENTZER WAS AN ASS IN MY OPINION. ALL HE DID WAS TALK SHIT ABOUT EVERYONE AND WAS DRUGGED OUT 90% OF THE TIME.

 

[bigheinz]

FLEX AND I GREW UP TOGETHER IN FRESNO , CA. WE TRAINED TOGETHER. FLEX TRAINED HARD, NO DOUBT ABOUT IT. MIKE MENTZER WAS AN ASS IN MY OPINION. ALL HE DID WAS TALK SHIT ABOUT EVERYONE AND WAS DRUGGED OUT 90% OF THE TIME.

Yes he was training very hard and Dillet wasnt, and he sayd this to Flex.
But anyway...It was just a coment of a moment in my life, i was 24 years old and can you imagine to be there.... I was impressed.

 

[big-al]

Phil, your not supposed to get your urine and semen samples mixed up.

 

[Vander_V]

My opinion.

Should one use large amounts of AAS,,, well NO of course not, if you dont have what it takes then and you have to dump large amounts of shit into your system to try and get to that next level your pretty much borderline an addict, If you have the genetics your body will eat up the smallest amounts and they will work fine, I read somewhere in here somebody wanted to become freaky and just as big as he could possibly get, to me thats just childish and abusive , why not keep it in check make the proper gains and look great while doing it, if your body doesnt react or respond well to AAS then accept the fact you may never become what you want as a BBer.

i started using shit age 24 and have known guys who started at age 17 , years later I surpassed them and I havent used half the shit they did.

MY QUESTION TO EVERYONE IS CAN YOU MAX OUT EARLY , LIKE CUTLER SAID HES AS BIG AS HE WAS WEHN HE WAS 21 OR CLOSE TO IT, CAN SOMEBODY TOP OFF EARLY AND NEVER REALLY GET PASS A CERTAIN POINT , I BELEIVE THAT TO BE TRUE WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?

 

[Kaiser]

MY QUESTION TO EVERYONE IS CAN YOU MAX OUT EARLY , LIKE CUTLER SAID HES AS BIG AS HE WAS WEHN HE WAS 21 OR CLOSE TO IT, CAN SOMEBODY TOP OFF EARLY AND NEVER REALLY GET PASS A CERTAIN POINT , I BELEIVE THAT TO BE TRUE WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?

Absolutely. Unless of course you change your genetic code.

 

[Moen]

Well forgive me if I'm wrong but you're no endocrinologist either Phil so either way, we're ALL guessing since there is no scientific data on long term health effects of AAS.

I too would say if you don't have what it takes, dont try to overdo it with drugs

The argument of competing vs not competing is a little bit flawed I think, most of the competitors (except for the top pros) are not making money from competing so why would that be more noble (from an AAS-using viewpoint) than somebody who just wants to look a certain way ?

X

 

[Shooter]

This thread went to far, dont you think???

I will post my last blod test.....BUT Please....

DONT FIGHT ANYMORE!!!

I AM SO SORRY.

well Heinz, thanks for the diet info lmao

 

[Magnum]

well Heinz, thanks for the diet info lmao

Yeah really. Remember, there is no space for the littles.

 

[KillerStack]

we're ALL guessing since there is no scientific data on long term health effects of AAS.

Yup, which reminds me of a pet peeve of mine: the word "abuse". Everyone says "use is fine but abuse is not". And certainly very few admit to abuse, especially when they are still using. But what exactly is "abuse of anabolic drugs". Everyone has a different opinion on this, and it has changed in general as the years have passed. Dosages have been pushed upwards, new drugs and methods introduced. Larry Scott used 10mg of D-bol and I'm sure he'd say todays pros abuse drugs, like most oldtimers do. Hell, even Dorian Yates accused todays pros of abuse recently LOL. Tomorrows pros will be on some new exotic gene modifiers I'm sure and all the pros of today will lament the progression. I'm sure we'll see Branch Warren in a decade say something like "at least we had to train, today they just pump drugs". LOL

The argument of competing vs not competing is a little bit flawed I think, most of the competitors (except for the top pros) are not making money from competing so why would that be more noble (from an AAS-using viewpoint) than somebody who just wants to look a certain way ?

I agree with this as well. Many here have said that unless you can make a living from the sport or become famous it's not worth it. But is it worth it to sacrifice your health for a little money or fame? I don't see the equation here.
When is it okay to deliberately risk your health?

 

[bigheinz]

Yeah really. Remember, there is no space for the littles.

Very funny...well the happinest comes again to the board.

 

[Vander_V]

Yup, which reminds me of a pet peeve of mine: the word "abuse". Everyone says "use is fine but abuse is not". And certainly very few admit to abuse, especially when they are still using. But what exactly is "abuse of anabolic drugs". Everyone has a different opinion on this, and it has changed in general as the years have passed. Dosages have been pushed upwards, new drugs and methods introduced. Larry Scott used 10mg of D-bol and I'm sure he'd say todays pros abuse drugs, like most oldtimers do. Hell, even Dorian Yates accused todays pros of abuse recently LOL. Tomorrows pros will be on some new exotic gene modifiers I'm sure and all the pros of today will lament the progression. I'm sure we'll see Branch Warren in a decade say something like "at least we had to train, today they just pump drugs". LOL

I agree with this as well. Many here have said that unless you can make a living from the sport or become famous it's not worth it. But is it worth it to sacrifice your health for a little money or fame? I don't see the equation here.
When is it okay to deliberately risk your health?

Abuse is simply the point where it becomes hazardess, when getting my blood work done quaterly i can see exactly where Iam at and if iam in harms way, if my liver is off and I still continue to dump AAS on top of my problem then Id say this is abuse, if all levels are clear and healthy and the DR says your good to go then Id say your not an addict or abusive.

You mentioned ABUSE but how about becomming an ADDICT , I think most BBers are ADDICTS and are carrying Obsessive-Compulsive traits, just because its AAS and we think were working out and staying in a healthy lifstyle doesnt mean were not addicted or abusive to ourselves, we are all guilty of this , the only thing that can keep us healthy is the DR plain and simple, most BBers think there invincible or deny the facts.

As for money or fame well I dont really think anybody is setting out to become a millionare from being a top BBer, fame and money dont really go with BBing hand in hand , the top pros dont make jack shit and if you think 150k is alot for what they go thro not to mention there drug bill and grocery tab your crazy.

I think its simply a selfish sport with self gratifying aheivements, most BBers think ahceiving there goals and there competitive nature is worth more then sometimes there health or enjoying life itself.

 

[Tough Old Man]

Abuse is simply the point where it becomes hazardess, when getting my blood work done quaterly i can see exactly where Iam at and if iam in harms way, if my liver is off and I still continue to dump AAS on top of my problem then Id say this is abuse, if all levels are clear and healthy and the DR says your good to go then Id say your not an addict or abusive.

Wow do I disagree with this. Hey that like an alcoholic that sits at home everyday and gets fuck up and doesn't bother anyone but himself and then goes to the Doc for a check and they find his liver is fine. This does happen Vander. Does that mean this guy doesn't abuse Alcohol?