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- Aug 28, 2014
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Old post but great info to help with some sus I got pretty cheap, not sure if I want to go up to 1 gram but thinking of 500 mg weekly or split that up into 2 doses weekly
;action-sm
Good read
I totally believe that. That's what it's for - especially after you 3rd or 4th injection.1cc of real sustanon 250 per week brings mine up to 1200 by day 7. Never under 800.
Abstract: Sustanon And It’s Use
By OuchThatHurts
Sustanon. Every BBer in the world knows the name. Every “noob” has to try it. But is it a good choice for BBers? Not really. Unless you know what you’re doing and even then you would likely have better and more stable results with less expensive and easier to maintain compounds. Let’s take a look at Sustanon.
Sustanon was originally designed and formulated by Organon as a timed-release compound used for androgen replacement for hypogonadic males, HRT, and all the other uses where androgens are indicated. The difference being that Sustanon (sustained release) was designed to be administered once per month. By combining multiple esters in such a way, starting with shorter chain molecules (propionate) and progressing to longer ones (decanoate), you can design a formula that takes effect almost immediately and releases it’s payload (testosterone) over a length of time.
So let’s look at the esters in Sustanon. Would anyone consider stacking two forms of esterified test in a single cycle? For example, would you combine propionate and enanthate? If so, how would you do it? Would you take 30mg or propionate every other day or twice a week along with 100mg of enanthate at the same time? Of course not! Well not only are you doing that with sust, but with FOUR esters, not just two. Testosterone is testosterone whether your body cleaves it from a short molecule or a long molecule. Many people still think that these different esters of the same organic compound are somehow different or “synergistic”. That’s almost like saying the caffeine in coffee is different than the caffeine in Pepsi. And if you stack coffee and Pepsi you’ll have a more pronounced effect or synergistic effect. There IS a difference but in only one regard and that is that you will get MORE raw test mg/mg with shorter esters than longer ones. The reason for this is simple. The larger the molecule, the more carbons are added which increases the total weight of the molecule. In short, more of the molecule’s weight is taken up by carbon and not testosterone. The additional carbon and occasionally oxygen atoms also increase the compound’s solubility and half-life but that is beyond this article. So what esters are we dealing with in Sustanon?
propionate 30mg (2 days)
phenylpropionate 30mg (4 days)
isocaproate 60mg (9 days)
decanoate 100mg (15 days)
In parenthesis, you see their approximate half lives. It is no coincidence that each ester is roughly twice the quantity of the one before it nor is it coincidental that each half life is approx. double the length of the one before it. Still beyond this article. Moving on…
I decided to experiment with Sustanon after receiving a fairly large quantity. Even though I had plenty, I was still thinking greedily and wanted to get the most out of my testosterone dollar. I started with the twice-a-week approach. A month later, I had no gains, a bad flu, and had used almost 20 amps (1ml) at 250mg/ml. I wanted to know what had gone wrong. It didn’t take long to figure out. During the first week, all that had taken effect was the prop and phenylprop. And 120mg total (out of 500mg) is all that my system saw. That’s about enough to suppress the axis but that’s it. Throw two amps in the trash. The second week, probably not much different and had used 4 amps (1000mg). By the third week I had the flu. Not exactly a surprise with all the HPTA suppression and unstable test levels. Most people have heard of the “sust flu”? Well, there you go. I was beginning to plan a PCT regimen when it dawned on me… I’m not getting enough STABLE, high levels of testosterone! So not long after that I moved everything to the all to common every-other-day (EOD) approach. Don’t get me wrong, I started noticing results but then again, who wouldn’t? This is a shotgun approach! If you had propionate and enanthate would you just keep dosing until something worked? No. You wouldn’t. The idea there is to just keep shooting the stuff and “one of them esters” will eventually work. Personally, I don’t like this approach. I think we can do much better. After all, don’t we owe it to Organon to abuse their product properly? SO… how well did it work? I’d have 3 good days, followed by 3 bad days. I was emotional. I wanted to sleep all the time. I had a runny nose. Two different blood tests during this time proved that I had almost twice the free test in my system as the blood test a week later. By this point, my great buy was turning into a great waste. I took 2 months off, did a fairly aggressive PCT and started planning my next cycle.
Here is where it seemed to all come together. I decided to try taking Sustanon as Organon intended, but in BBer amounts. This meant using it less frequently but using larger doses. Using it as a SUSTained-release product. Again, being greedy like I am, I didn’t want to waste the propionate in the Sust so I scheduled the entire cycle dosage amounts based on what I would take if I was doing a propionate-only cycle. This meant 4 amps or 1000mgs. That gave me a starting dose of 120mg propionate (30mg x 4) and instead of taking the next dose of propionate, I knew I could just relax knowing that as the propionate fell off, the phenylpropionate would begin and as the phenylpropionate fell off, the isocaproate would begin, etc, etc. This worked phenomenal and I began the cycle figuring on every two weeks (one decanoate half life). In reality, I played with this until I found a sweet spot of 8 days (approx. half of a half life). This gave me testosterone levels that remained stable throughout the cycle and at levels that were good for the results I wanted. You may need to adjust this time period to suit your physiology.
Conclusion: If I were to ever use Sustanon in a cycle again, which I doubt since there are less expensive, more stable compounds available, I would use it as intended in BBer amounts. I would do 1000-1500mg once every 8 days. This would allow for it to take immediate effect and with a few additional amps of propionate, you could use it with predictable stability right up until a few days before starting PCT. This dosing regimen, in my opinion, combined with equipoise or nandrolone would be a very productive cycle. Given the choice, I would still stick with enanthate. The injections are usually painless, the stability is high, the half life is fairly long. If you don’t mind EOD injects then prop or phenylprop would also be better choices than Sustanon in my opinion. Especially phenylprop. You would likely have to compound this yourself though as I haven’t seen this ester alone very often except in the case of nandrolone phenylprop (fast-acting deca).
Refs: any Sustanon package insert
I've messed around a lot with sus...the first time i ran 1 amp eod with some dbol for the first 4 weeks. Great gains but, I got pneumonia on cycle...
At the time, with sus, there were a lot of counterfeits floating around. It could have been dirty gear, or it could have got contaminated while loading. All the precautions in the world, amps are harder to draw from and inject without accidentally touching something etc imo. your mileage may vary.
I use a very reputable UGL now, cruising at 1 cc a week with 1 cc a week of deca (250mg/ml) as my base is what works best for me (bad knee and shoulder) The gains are very slow, but steady. I've put an inch on my arm in the last 4 months since starting this after knee surgery.
I've gained just as well using this amount with proper sleep and diet, than i did when i was running around 2 grams of hormones a week and not getting enough foo/sleep.
My 2 cents, sus 1 dose a week is what works best.
Ps, prop is my fav, but its a bitch to shoot ed eod as a cruise. I'll only switch over to prop when i'm running tren a and masteron.
It was your first cycle. Everyone responds magically to their first cycle if the stuff is legit.What lab was your sustanon amps? My first cycle was 250mg of sustanon amps by organon labs....amps had yellow Pakistan writing and were really strong...ran 250mg weeks 1-4 ..500mg weeks 6-8 then weeks 10-12 I dropped the mg back down to 250mg ..I blew up quick...everyone from family to co workers knew I was on cycle...definitely recommend sust for a begginer cycle!
Hooold on....
So you are saying you can inject Sustanon at 1500mg ONCE every 8 days, and itl remain 1600-1800 blood levels for the entire 12 weeks????
This is a good question but there is a little bit of error in the broscience. Ideally, for the BBer or PLer, levels should be at peak almost all the time. There is no evidence that says that steady plasma levels is even necessary at all. In fact, if you would test your natural blood levels 3 times everyday, you could be 700ng/dL in the morning 400 in the afternoon and 200 at night. So if you can get by and make gains totally natural with blood levels that are that variable, I'm not 100% convinced that the "keep blood levels steady" is all that valid.Let me ask this to OP or anyone else that knows. I noticed that between shots that levels would do sometimes close to 200 pts between shots, and there being done M,W,F. Now Sat and Sunday is 2 days before next shot, so almost 72 hours.
My question is keeping blood plasma levels stable is the key to keep sides to a mininum, am I correct in that statement? Or am I way off?