My Fascination with inj L-Carnitine

[cmryan]

I run it at 2000 preworkout, seems to be the sweet spot for me. I do have t4 ordered which I may add in at a very low dose, primarily because I'm also at 4iu's growth a day.

2000 or 200? That’s a lot of mL of difference lol.

 

[HugeLats]

I run it at 2000 preworkout, seems to be the sweet spot for me. I do have t4 ordered which I may add in at a very low dose, primarily because I'm also at 4iu's growth a day.

What's the deal with the t4 and hgh combo. I've been hearing how HGH unregulated t3 but lowers t4. When I talked to my coach about it he said it's not enough to worry and I shouldn't be throwing more drugs into the mix. I appreciate that he wants me to be healthy just curious if it truly makes a difference in the physique.

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

I swear my 4 yo nephew could say t3 in a dream and Stewie would pop up talking advanced endocrinology

Just casually stepping in an elucidating everything perfectly to us

 

[homonunculus]

If we follow the paper trail of literature, carnitine facilitates as a peripheral antagonist of thyroid hormones. In the same context, doesn't have a negative impact on thyroid gland function.

As for assessment of one's thyroid parameters i.e., T4, fT4, T3 and fT3 all awhile using carnitine. Catalyzation of the conversion (iodothyronine deiodinases) of T4 to T3 occurs pre-receptor upon the cell membrane (extracellular) via selenodeiodinases, as well intracellular deiodinases. Given this, there'd be minimal reflection on an immunoassay denoting any reduction of circulating thyroid hormones.

Accordingly, it's the genomic actions that are blunted by way of blockade of nuclei binding within the thyroid receptor.

This is what I've generally round in following that "trail," but it's one that doesn't go very deep, from what I've found.

Have you found any recent work looking at carnitine (used alone) and blood markers?...

It's surprising to me from regulatory standpoint that there would be no feedback inhibition or cellular down regulation of the inhibitor effects of carnitine on T3 action, but taking carnitine in isolation is a modern phenomenon. OTOH, the content of carnitine in meat can be pretty high (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23879010/ Suggests 637mg in 100g of dry matter kangaroo meat, which might be about ~600mg in .4kg or 1lb of fresh meat.)

I suspect the issue of testing this in isolation in cases of thyroid storm or hyperthyroidism of various causes is ethical, as I see other studies using a combination carnitine with drugs that interfere with thyroid output / metabolism (so the effect of L-carn.)

So, would be interested to know from anyone who's got blood work (T4, T3, free, reverse, etc.) with and without high dose L-carn.

In the attached study there was no effect on blood markers in two of three subjects, but subject C seemed to show some reduction in thyroid hormone ("protein bound iodine") and perhaps metabolic rate. There was no mention of diet here, so it could of course be that with reduced hyperthyroid symptoms Subject C's lifestyle changed (less anxious and moving around less... perhaps a nervous eater previously, etc. so that subject's response was reflective of some normal thyroid metabolic regulation.)

This was interesting, too - suggests even a different etiology of the hyperthyroidism in this subject...

"Subject C did not completely follow the
above pattern. Indeed, there was an initial
depression of PBI along with the clinical
improvement; however, his PBI remained
depressed throughout the duration of
carnitine administration. Following the
administration of placebo, a period of
eight weeks elapsed before the signs and
symptoms of hyperthyroidism recurred.
At this point his PBI was elevated to 9.3
micrograms/IOO ml. Since subjects A
and B had a recurrence of their clinical
hyperthyroid manifestations by the end
of the second week, it seems unlikely that
the delay in subject C was due to a variation
in drug effect. The clinical and
laboratory course of subject C can be ex-l
plained if the patient had undergone
spontaneous remission while on carnitine.
The BMR was not significantly lowered
from the pretreatment level in subjects
A and B; however, there was a definite
elevation above the pretreatment levels by
the end of the placebo period. In subject
C, the BMR was lowered after carnitine
administration and remained so until the
eighth week of placebo administration."

-------------

Then there's also the issue of whether there is indeed a relevant effect of long term carnitine on the thyroid hormone driven aspects of metabolism that might undo the impact on fat oxidation over time. Plus the interaction of L-carn on thyroid action in those who are hyper vs. euthyroid. Perhaps the reduction in hyperthyroid symptoms of using L-carn does not reflect the extend of genomic inhibitory actions in those who are not hyperthyroid.

I've also seen that hyperthyroidism can deplete tissue levels of L-carnitine (can find that again I imagine for those interested) so there's another interaction to and possible mechanism at work in treating hyperthryoidism with L-Carn, as well as a reason for those who go high on Thyroid "supplementation" to ensure they've got L-carn in the mix (dietarily a/o via supplementation).

-S

 

[ranger54]

Any benefit in administering L-carn before bed?

 

[TRENUP80]

Thats some good stuff for fat burning mobilization =)

 

[TRENUP80]

I have always been fascinated with this compound, and the more I learn the more fascinated I become. L-CARNITINE like HGH has many fascinating effects on so many things in the human body. For those of you who take massive amounts of AAS claiming that your a "low responder" you really need to so your research on how to get your body to more efficiently use androgen's, trust me there are ways and L carnitine is part of that pathway. I have been listening to alek kikel lately, he has done a lot of podcast with our very own Mike Arnold, he is a pretty smart young man and has some interesting theory that I have begun to take a closer look at. He like myself is a huge fan of inj. L-carnitine and had a live Q&A on Instagram today so I wanted to get him to talk a little about it so I ask..." inj. L-carnitine how much and how often"? And his response it at about the 34 minute mark of the video im about to link

View this content on Instagram

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cool i will check that out thanks =)

 

[totalrecomp]

Yeah, the synthetek doesn't burn at all...there syntheselen supposedly burns like a count though....

Not true for everyone. I seem to have no issue.

 

[goback2013]

I created my own 500mg/ ml solution and is 100% painless.
Increased vascularity, endurance, and body heat all there.

 

[Joe293]

2000 or 200? That’s a lot of mL of difference lol.

Fuck sorry, I get it in 500mg per cc vials and take 2cc pre workout so it's actually 1000mg.

 

[Joe293]

What's the deal with the t4 and hgh combo. I've been hearing how HGH unregulated t3 but lowers t4. When I talked to my coach about it he said it's not enough to worry and I shouldn't be throwing more drugs into the mix. I appreciate that he wants me to be healthy just curious if it truly makes a difference in the physique.

All I know is I've been told several times that t4 is specifically lowered with hgh usage and it's pretty typical to add in a small dose of t4 (not T3) when running hgh on a regular basis. I'm on generics at 4 units a day and possibly going to 5 for 2021. I also use mk-677 so eventually I will work in t4 to see if it's necessary.

 

[Biggerp73]

All I know is I've been told several times that t4 is specifically lowered with hgh usage and it's pretty typical to add in a small dose of t4 (not T3) when running hgh on a regular basis. I'm on generics at 4 units a day and possibly going to 5 for 2021. I also use mk-677 so eventually I will work in t4 to see if it's necessary.

From what I understand, the supraphysiological levels of IGF that occur from the exogenous GH would act as a negative feedback loop and prevent the MK677 from causing an increase in endogenous GH secretion

 

[tornquad201]

What are the benefits

 

[finephysique]

I think I am putting this on my wish list of things to try when things aren’t so messed up with COVID and when I can afford it, I am always looking for more natural ways to give me an edge these days and this sounds like it might be one that willhelp.

 

[xpoc]

I am trying to wrap my head around this: I want to shed some fat, so I would like to try the injectable carnitine. To make it effective I should ingest 100 grams of fast acting carbs (powdered Gatorade for example) immediately after I inject? This seems counterintuitive to add 400 calories of pure sugar to my diet in order to lose fat. But, this is what I am gleaning from the replies. Is this correct?

 

[Reno911]

I am trying to wrap my head around this: I want to shed some fat, so I would like to try the injectable carnitine. To make it effective I should ingest 100 grams of fast acting carbs (powdered Gatorade for example) immediately after I inject? This seems counterintuitive to add 400 calories of pure sugar to my diet in order to lose fat. But, this is what I am gleaning from the replies. Is this correct?

No. Just wake up, inject, take 1.5-2iu Humalog then start cardio. When you eat your first meal have some carbs in it. If you take it before training, eat 90 min before training, inject before your workout, then go train. Eat your PW meal.

 

[Elvia1023]

I am trying to wrap my head around this: I want to shed some fat, so I would like to try the injectable carnitine. To make it effective I should ingest 100 grams of fast acting carbs (powdered Gatorade for example) immediately after I inject? This seems counterintuitive to add 400 calories of pure sugar to my diet in order to lose fat. But, this is what I am gleaning from the replies. Is this correct?

How did you get that from the entire thread? Yes that is one way. Another way is just use the inj carnitine with no carbs and it will still work. As the above posted a few iu humalog will do wonders as well. You could high dose some leucine with a small amount of honey to give a decent insulin spike. You could just add it to a standard preworkout meal but use say 70g carbs from rice and 30g from honey. I think even when getting really lean taking in 100g pre and post workout with low carbs for the rest of the day is nothing crazy and would more than allow you to drop fat whilst maintaining some fullness. Most importantly it still works without an insulin spike so don't think you are wasting it without one if you are on a very low carb diet. Even in that scenario 3iu humalog and 30-40g HBCD's could be utilized to great effect and it only bumps your diet up by 90-120 calories. Just pick your carnitine source well and get a good product.

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

How did you get that from the entire thread? Yes that is one way. Another way is just use the inj carnitine with no carbs and it will still work. As the above posted a few iu humalog will do wonders as well. You could high dose some leucine with a small amount of honey to give a decent insulin spike. You could just add it to a standard preworkout meal but use say 70g carbs from rice and 30g from honey. I think even when getting really lean taking in 100g pre and post workout with low carbs for the rest of the day is nothing crazy and would more than allow you to drop fat whilst maintaining some fullness. Most importantly it still works without an insulin spike so don't think you are wasting it without one if you are on a very low carb diet. Even in that scenario 3iu humalog and 30-40g HBCD's could be utilized to great effect and it only bumps your diet up by 90-120 calories. Just pick your carnitine source well and get a good product.

Yeah, watch out for those shady l-carnitine dealers out there, their shit will MESS YOU UP.

 

[Elvia1023]

Yeah, watch out for those shady l-carnitine dealers out there, their shit will MESS YOU UP.

I have only used synthetek for injectable carnitine but have used many oral brands. I am sure there are lot's of decent brands out there but I am forever hearing carnitine is so painful and it put people off for life but that's usually from high mg/ml products. I am biased because I want synthetek to do well but it's a great product which I personally use and get no pip from it so I will always recommend that one.

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

I have only used synthetek for injectable carnitine but have used many oral brands. I am sure there are lot's of decent brands out there but I am forever hearing carnitine is so painful and it put people off for life but that's usually from high mg/ml products. I am biased because I want synthetek to do well but it's a great product which I personally use and get no pip from it so I will always recommend that one.

Yeah I mean you said that 30 times already in this thread.