My god, how did these guys do this !! hahaha

[marshall]

Thanks Marshall...No I dont do that but I dont think it hurts anything to do it either...Actually I just started taking protein shakes again for the first time in a few months...The thing to me that makes more difference than anything is just eating quality food..I can always tell a huge difference in my physique when do that...

Well said. That's all those guys had, that's what I'm saying. Would Arnold, Samir or Mentzer looked better in those photos if they had Waxy Maize carbups or used CEE? Pretty debatable huh? It's actually funny

The average developed gym rat has had it drummed into them that they can't survive without this heavy supplementation and they look like the same gym rats from 20 years ago.

I can't count how many times I've been asked by guys with average physiques about an NO product. I just laugh and say it's definitely something they shouldn't waste their money on.

Pay someone a hundred bucks to tell you how to eat right, then you will notice a transformation. Yet, they will still go buy all this BSN NO stuff because Coleman is posing in a magazine with it.

 

[marshall]

This thread has a really weird tone to it for this forum? Whats the point?

You are totally missing the point and it has everything to do with bodybuilding, so where else should it be posted?

NO GH
NO SLIN
NO IGF OR WHATEVER LATEST PEPTIDE IS THE RAGE
NO CREATINE (INSERT LATEST SUPERIOR ESTER OR DELIVERY SYSTEM)
NO N-O PUMP STIMULATOR SUPPS
NO PWO WINDOW TO GORGE DOWN WHEY HYDROLOSATE AND GLUCOSE
NO WAXY MAIZE (OH MY GOSH !!)

Have these products changed bodybuilding? Have they made physiques better? Are they even needed in bodybuilding?

Physiques haven't improved. The gym rats I see look no better than the gym rats I saw 20 years ago. Now they just run home to get their pwo drink in, sit around and drink corn starch all day to carb up and see if there's something that can get them bigger than "just" aas.

Find me better bodybuilders than Mentzer, Arnold, Samir. 300 pound, 48" waist Coleman? hahahhaha

 

[leapfrog]

hmmmm

since you want to take things out of context! yes, someone can be a corn starch non-responder.not everything works for everyone,including AAS or what ever you want to compare.i never said spending hundreds of dollars would make someone more complete.in fact i believe people depend to much on supps and drugs rather than hard work,nutrition,and knowledge.

your also leaving out the fact that genetics are a huge factor.the guys you named have great genetics to go with their hard work and dedication.a weak body part today gets filled in with extra syntherol.the BB of today have ruined their skin and physique with to many drugs IMO.i've seen some BB who are not pro's that have sick physiques like the three you mentioned.

i can tell you this,if the three you named had the access to what is available today they would have been even more insane!! when they did have protein powder it was like sand and tasted like crap.

so why are there not more built people today?DRUGS and SUPPS don't change genetics nor do they make up for training,nutrition,and knowledge.

leap

what do you mean don't work for someone? Are you saying that Creatine ethyl ester and Waxy maize don't build physiques that are unattainable for everyone, just responders?

Can someone be a corn starch non-responder?

Do you think that Mentzer or Samir or Arnold would've been far more complete if they spent hundreds of dollars on creatine ethyl ester a post workout drink and waxy maize carb ups?

 

[marshall]

so why are there not more built people today?DRUGS and SUPPS don't change genetics nor do they make up for training,nutrition,and knowledge.

leap

That's what I'm saying !

Do you think all of these kids in the gym spending hundreds of dollars sucking down their special PWO formulas, loading on creatine, buying NO supplements, tribulus, zma etca al look any better? Nope, just lighter in the wallet.

Guys with the only goal of looking good at the beach or in the gym, trying to figure out how many iu's of insulin they can take w/out going into a coma or how they can cycle the latest peptide that's available. Forget about how much of the "boring" regular stuff they are taking (test, deca, tren, dbol)

Geez, Mentzer ate food and took boring regular aas and trained his ass off, that's about it. How many people mega dosing on slin/gh/igf can put their pics up against his. How many? A micro-percentage of those that are doing it, that's who. IF THAT

 

[JETHRO TULL]

I think all Marshal is trying to say is.....

There are so many guys willing to inject insulin....and heaven knows what else...and yet are unwilling to exhaust the basics..nutrition, rest, and a training program that facilitates growth.

Many will never compete, yet they go crazy on all the latest drug regimines....and then... never post a pic of a physique that looks much better than that of a good high school wrestler.

Some are 22 and won't lift still be lifting 5 years from now. I've seen that happen....often.

 

[flexmaster]

marshall

for all the talk you are doing in this thread, i would LOVE to see a pic of you...so i can gauge whether or not your words hold any merit at all based on your physique. just curious if you talk about things or live them...

 

[nuteboy]

BBers today look much better ur boy mentzer couldnt hold a candle to the top 10 at the olympia. This is prolly the 5,464th thread that has been written about ur boy mentzer and how much u love his physique...... we got it.
goo

I agree. I think the photos make them look much better than if you actually saw video footage.

That pic of Arnold looks insane but when I saw Arnold, the camera showing his entire body, you could see the flaws and his arms didn't look as big. Today's boys are much better in my opinion.

 

[Nssca]

NO GH
NO SLIN
NO IGF OR WHATEVER LATEST PEPTIDE IS THE RAGE
NO CREATINE (INSERT LATEST SUPERIOR ESTER OR DELIVERY SYSTEM)
NO N-O PUMP STIMULATOR SUPPS
NO PWO WINDOW TO GORGE DOWN WHEY HYDROLOSATE AND GLUCOSE
NO WAXY MAIZE (OH MY GOSH !!)

It's amazing how with all of these cutting edge supplements HOW MUCH BETTER EVERYONE LOOKS TODAY. I mean Mr Olympia went from a 32" inch waist to 42", now that is optimum hypertrophy !!

Everytime I go to the mall I see 5 or 6 guys who look this good, don't you guys? I'll bet it's because they have their Waxy Maize schedule right on target. hahahahha

Because all you need is heavy training, test and food. People now days think there must be more to it then that...well look back 25 years and you'll see. Thats all they had back then.

 

[marshall]

Because all you need is heavy training, test and food. People now days think there must be more to it then that...well look back 25 years and you'll see. Thats all they had back then.

Well shit Rooster, you summed it up in a paragraph you sob

 

[marshall]

.
yet they go crazy on all the latest drug regimines....and then... never post a pic of a physique that looks much better than that of a good high school wrestler.

Yep, unfortunately this is what a huge portion of the subculture has degraded into.

Just the other day I was having a conversation with a guy from work, who I honestly didn't even know trained, (never had before) and said he went to the local HRT place, got some enanthate and gh and is training now. Looked the same to me.

I AM NOT MAKING THAT UP OR EMBELLISHING IT FOR DRAMATIC EFFECT.

I guess if he throws in some CEE and Waxy Maize PWO, he'll be at Red Rock doing a shoot like Mentzer soon.

 

[marshall]

I agree. I think the photos make them look much better than if you actually saw video footage.

HUH ?

That pic of Arnold looks insane but

but what? those pictures are them

 

[marshall]

for all the talk you are doing in this thread, i would LOVE to see a pic of you...so i can gauge whether or not your words hold any merit at all based on your physique.

what are YOUR guidelines flexmaster, so that I would hold merit to YOU?

Bigger than you?
Bigger than Coleman?
Leaner than Zane?
Just being in good shape, looking good and walking the walk?
Smarter than Stephen Hawking?
Better looking than Vander?

I'm not looking for credibility flexmaster or acceptance.

I'm not talking or bragging about myself.

I am saying this. All of these "cutting edge supplements" or designer drug regimens HAVE NOT CREATED BETTER BODYBUILDERS, whether it's the gym rat or the PRO.

Throw the gh/slin/peptides/cee/waxy maize/pre-workout/post workout/during the workout drinks in the garbage. I mean c'mon, doesn't it even sound stupid when you read it.

Where are all of the Mentzer clones or even better physiques, where are they all hiding. I go into a huge World Gym and don't see anyone who is superior, despite all of these "great cutting edge supplements". It is 30 years later, why aren't improvements DRASTICALLY noticeable ! ???

 

[flexmaster]

what are YOUR guidelines flexmaster, so that I would hold merit to YOU?

Bigger than you?
Bigger than Coleman?
Leaner than Zane?
Just being in good shape, looking good and walking the walk?
Smarter than Stephen Hawking?
Better looking than Vander?

I'm not looking for credibility flexmaster or acceptance.

I'm not talking or bragging about myself.

I am saying this. All of these "cutting edge supplements" or designer drug regimens HAVE NOT CREATED BETTER BODYBUILDERS, whether it's the gym rat or the PRO.

Throw the gh/slin/peptides/cee/waxy maize/pre-workout/post workout/during the workout drinks in the garbage. I mean c'mon, doesn't it even sound stupid when you read it.

Where are all of the Mentzer clones or even better physiques, where are they all hiding. I go into a huge World Gym and don't see anyone who is superior, despite all of these "great cutting edge supplements". It is 30 years later, why aren't improvements DRASTICALLY noticeable ! ???

my guidelines are simple...bigger, better, more knowledgable than me and i'll listen&think about it...but if you (not you specifically marshall) are not any of these things...ill listen to what you have to say but it wont hold much weight because all a person can go on based by anothers advice is thier physique. (assuming they are practicing what they preach, which they should be)

i do think the top tier bodybuilders of today are better than those of yesteryear...but as far as how many guys today are doing exaclty what pro's back then were doing(and more), and they still look like crap, i agree. i think it's WAY too easy to get aas now and people use it instead of training balls to the wall and eating the way you should. in fact, there is someone on this board who i think is a joke. this person takes everything under the sun, yet has never posted a pic and talks like he is the all knowing gift from god to professionalmusce.com and we should feel blessed and pay him homage. i personally, have never used anything other than aas and clen (one time). ive tried some supplements and to say the truth the only one i have ever liked and believed worked great was NO Xplode...but it gaives my lower back suc bad cramps i simply cannot use it anymore.

one more thing...while im not old enough to know what the costs of living and whatnot were back in the 70's, i would imagine its more expensive to eat like a bodybuilder now, than it was back then. thats really the only thing holding me back from where i would like to be. i just dont have the money to put myself through college (my last year thank god), pay car insurance, cell phone, food, and everything else while working part time and going to school. i just dont think you can really compare bbers from the past with today, there are just too many variables that cannot be accounted for.

id still like to see that pic

 

[marshall]

so it sounds like you are practicing what I preach

I had a guy in the gym ask me about a good supplement he could get and inquired about an NO supplement, I said listen, you need a good vitamin/mineral supplement, some essential fats, for convenience a good quality protein powder. That's it, nothing else you can buy at the store is going to BUILD MUSCLE.

Anyway, gh/slin/peptides/cee/pre workout/post workout/mid workout drinks, 2 week 24iu gh blasts, 16iu's insulin 3x per day...these things have not improved an Olympian physique one bit. Coleman's waistline is outrageous and he can't move from point A to point B without huffing like Cheech and Chong on a loaded bong.

Throw this ridiculous stuff in the garbage and you can still build the Olympian physique like Arnold, Serge, Mentzer, Samir, Paris, Benfatto, Labrada.

30+ years and no progress, only an over-reliance on supplements and drugs.

Even the local gym rats, all of these hundreds of dollars on supplements and they look exactly the same as the ones I saw 20+ years ago, just with thinner wallets.

It's hard to cross compare generations of bodybuilders flex, we agree on that.
A good pro in 1974 would be a good pro today and vice versa.

However, throw Coleman and Cutler on only good nutrition, good training, test and an anabolic, THROW ALL OF THE OTHER SHIT IN THE GARBAGE and it would be fucking amazing HOW MUCH BETTER AND HOW MUCH MORE LIKE A REAL BODYBUILDER THEY WOULD LOOK LIKE.

Anyway, sounds like you got your head on straight and a good gameplan flex and hopefully will always keep that wisdom and not be led astray.

 

[gooey]

do u actually have.....

so it sounds like you are practicing what I preach

I had a guy in the gym ask me about a good supplement he could get and inquired about an NO supplement, I said listen, you need a good vitamin/mineral supplement, some essential fats, for convenience a good quality protein powder. That's it, nothing else you can buy at the store is going to BUILD MUSCLE.

Anyway, gh/slin/peptides/cee/pre workout/post workout/mid workout drinks, 2 week 24iu gh blasts, 16iu's insulin 3x per day...these things have not improved an Olympian physique one bit. Coleman's waistline is outrageous and he can't move from point A to point B without huffing like Cheech and Chong on a loaded bong.

Throw this ridiculous stuff in the garbage and you can still build the Olympian physique like Arnold, Serge, Mentzer, Samir, Paris, Benfatto, Labrada.

30+ years and no progress, only an over-reliance on supplements and drugs.

Even the local gym rats, all of these hundreds of dollars on supplements and they look exactly the same as the ones I saw 20+ years ago, just with thinner wallets.

It's hard to cross compare generations of bodybuilders flex, we agree on that.
A good pro in 1974 would be a good pro today and vice versa.

However, throw Coleman and Cutler on only good nutrition, good training, test and an anabolic, THROW ALL OF THE OTHER SHIT IN THE GARBAGE and it would be fucking amazing HOW MUCH BETTER AND HOW MUCH MORE LIKE A REAL BODYBUILDER THEY WOULD LOOK LIKE.

Anyway, sounds like you got your head on straight and a good gameplan flex and hopefully will always keep that wisdom and not be led astray.

ANY credible evidence about what Ronnie/Jay actually take? Or what Mentzer took, or did? All your statements are based purely on an assumption. Do u know that Coleman has a 48 inch waist? Lastly do u honestly think that Mentzer or arnold would not be taking the same thing pros use today if they were in this era of BBing? Assumption after assumption unsupported empty statements one after another, until u can bring some factual proof of what these athletes used these are all once again an "I love Mentzer" thread...... again.... and Im sure u will another in time.
goo

 

[gettnlarge01]

I like the look Flex Wheeler had in the 90"s and that is what I strive for,but the pros of today not only have a bigger waist but bigger legs,chest,arms and are alot thicker than those of the 70s and 80s. Bodybuilding is supposed to be judged on how you look not measurements. As far as the guys you see who don"t look like they workout then maybe they don"t or just aren"t doing it right,may even be genetics or a bad diet.Drugs don't make the man.drive and dedication do.

 

[KillerStack]

I had a guy in the gym ask me about a good supplement he could get and inquired about an NO supplement, I said listen, you need a good vitamin/mineral supplement, some essential fats, for convenience a good quality protein powder. That's it, nothing else you can buy at the store is going to BUILD MUSCLE.

The NO supplements make me laugh. I'm amazed how many advanced and experienced bb'ers are falling for this crap. It's like this stuff is specifically made to fool guys into thinking it actually does something as far as muscle growth. First you have arginine that can improve blood flow, then you add some creatine which can manifest as a pound or two on the scale, then you add some stimulants like caffeine and tyrosine to give an immediate "kick". What is this stuff doing as far as real muscle growth? Pretty much jack shit IMO.

 

[gooey]

no way....

Where are all of the Mentzer clones or even better physiques, where are they all hiding. I go into a huge World Gym and don't see anyone who is superior, despite all of these "great cutting edge supplements". It is 30 years later, why aren't improvements DRASTICALLY noticeable ! ???

Mentzer couldnt hold a candle to any of these physiques not even close.....

 

[marshall]

ANY credible evidence about what Ronnie/Jay actually take? Assumption after assumption unsupported empty statements one after another

Evidence? I'm not conducting an investigation gooey.

I also figure that Traci Lords fucked a whole lot of people before she went into porn @ 15. No, I DON'T have any factual evidence.

I'm not going to debate about what they use, just like I'm not going to prove to you that I think Lords fucked alot of guys before she went into porn.

Proof is IN the pudding !!

 

[marshall]

The NO supplements make me laugh. I'm amazed how many advanced and experienced bb'ers are falling for this crap. It's like this stuff is specifically made to fool guys into thinking it actually does something as far as muscle growth. First you have arginine that can improve blood flow, then you add some creatine which can manifest as a pound or two on the scale, then you add some stimulants like caffeine and tyrosine to give an immediate "kick". What is this stuff doing as far as real muscle growth? Pretty much jack shit IMO.

No supplement you buy in a store will build muscle, none, zero, nada.

Get a good quality food supplement (read: protein powder) if you need one for convenience, get your baseline supplementation covered (vitamins/minerals/efa's). Then STOP SHOPPING!