My thoughts on Cholesterol - a series

[mountaindog1]

Thanks for the link. Just to rant, with all the reading about cholesterol, fat, sugars, et cetera, the only thing I've learned is that humans really don't know shit. It's not like there's been a certain way of nutrition or activity to increase longevity-which is the goal of eating "this" or "that" and doing this or that.. The majority of people still die before 100.

If people would realize this, then I think a lot of re-prioritizing would go on, (like eating meat, eggs, and taters full of butter and fat at the dinner table with your family and enjoying your the life you worked hard for ). I'm done ranting before I turn cynical and my head explodes from shouting "CHOLESTEROL IS GOOD, EAT YOUR EGGS SON..AND TURN OFF THE TV TO SIT AT THE DAMN DINNER TABLE WITH YOUR WIFE". :banghead:

So true......my mother in law's doctor has her scared shitless her cholesterol is going to kill her...her total is around 210, and her HDL is around 70. She is in her 70's and looks great..her mom and her mom lived well into their 90's. I showed her studies where low cholesterol meant higher mortality in older folks...low cholesterol is a really bad thing at that point in your life..I finally got her to eat grass fed butter...she is still scared though thanks to this wonderful dumbass of a doctor (that's my rant)...haha...being tense, stressed, and worried all the time will do more to hurt her than her food choices right now

jm

 

[minister]

I thought I would mention this too, as this is often hailed as the end all be all for proof of the lipid hypothesis.

Ok..the famous Framingham study. This was a massive study that conducted in Framingham Mass. The AMA said that this study proved a 1% reduction in cholesterol, provided a 2% reduction in CHD risk.

Now, here is what some of the researchers and directors would write as the result of the study. Actually this is from a director named Dr. William Castelli (but many researchers in the project validated his statement). "In Framingham we found that the more saturated fat one ate, the more cholesterol one ate, the more calories one ate, the lower the person’s serum cholesterol…we found that the people who ate the most cholesterol, ate the most saturated fat, and the most calories, weighed the least, and were the most physically active." Holy cow, yes, that is exactly what he said. I did not embelish anything in his statement.

That quote has been in several books I have read...here is a website too confirming it from another doctor who has written some great work on cholesterol Dr Malcom Kendrick.

**broken link removed**

Futhermore, the results were this, For each 1 mg DROP in mg/dl in cholesterol there was an 11% INCREASE in coronary mortality and total mortality. Now read that again....the drop, causes an INCREASE in death. There is a ton of info and studies that I have come across that talk about this to be especially true in the elderly...

There were many co-directors who agreed with Castelli that eventually resigned due to absolutely horrible misinterpretation of the real findings.

Actually, when I had my cholesterol measured a few years ago at my place of employment, they gave me a likelihood of future problems estimation using a “Framingham score.” Evidently this study proved the Lipid Hypothesis. Right? Wrong.

There are other studies we could destroy, but i wanted to talk about Ancel Keys work and the Framingham project, as they were the most widely publicized in proof of the lipid hypothesis.

Let's talk a little about what cholesterol's role is in the body in the next email. Keep the comments coming!

JM

This just proves what I have known all along, these doctors are literally killing people when trying to lower their lipid count under 200 using all these statin drugs, especially if you are over 60, we need cholesterol for many things , even to have decent free test levels. God bless you. Minister.

 

[AWN2004]

John,

This is all great information. I was just talking with our local NOW Foods rep about this topic. I had a couple of questions that I have my own opinions on but I just wanted to see what you think about these topics...

-The role of refinded sugars and things like high fructose corn syrup and the effect it has on influencing cholesterol levels.

-The FDA's view on certain supplements like Garcinia cambogia and the possible effects on lowering bad cholesterol levels. This also goes for certain phytosterols and things like krill oil as well. In other words, basic nutritional supplements that can be used to help promote healthy cholesterol levels and the role they have in ones diet.

- The pharm industries view on cholesterol and how statins like Lipitor are widely publicised in lew of dietary changes.

Now of course I'm not asking you to go into great detail about each one of those points, but more like a brief overview of how you feel about how our government makes us think about anyting BUT making a diet change first and foremost. I believe some of things are of great importance in one's diet coupled with a sound diet of healthy fats and whole foods. Thanks in advance for your feedback.

 

[mountaindog1]

John,

This is all great information. I was just talking with our local NOW Foods rep about this topic. I had a couple of questions that I have my own opinions on but I just wanted to see what you think about these topics...

-The role of refinded sugars and things like high fructose corn syrup and the effect it has on influencing cholesterol levels.

-The FDA's view on certain supplements like Garcinia cambogia and the possible effects on lowering bad cholesterol levels. This also goes for certain phytosterols and things like krill oil as well. In other words, basic nutritional supplements that can be used to help promote healthy cholesterol levels and the role they have in ones diet.

- The pharm industries view on cholesterol and how statins like Lipitor are widely publicised in lew of dietary changes.

Now of course I'm not asking you to go into great detail about each one of those points, but more like a brief overview of how you feel about how our government makes us think about anyting BUT making a diet change first and foremost. I believe some of things are of great importance in one's diet coupled with a sound diet of healthy fats and whole foods. Thanks in advance for your feedback.

Hi Awn - hope all is well with training and life..I'll touch on a few things you asked.

In terms of sugar and refined carbs, and how they effect cholesterol levels...diets with too much refined carb increase total cholesterol, and also Triglycerdies. Triglycerides is the one that scares me...pair that with low HDL and you have a recipe for disaster. The science behind this is that your body doesn't get shit from refined carbs in terms of vitamins and minerals, and therefore cannabilizes (spelling?) it's own nutrient stores to metabolize it...leaving less to metaboize cholesterol...

One of things that Serrano did for me around 2007 or 2008, was put me on Chromium to manage my insulin levels. He also said it would raise my HDL some, and it did by a few points..I think it was like 4 points higher next test??

Personally i think diets high in carbs (mostly refined) are a real bad idea. We know that high insulin levels promote CHD BIG TIME, but people just don't worry about 10 or 20 years down the road. There was a Norwegian study, can't think of the name of it, but anyway the end result was that having a high resting glucose (over 89) results in a greater than 50% increase in risk of CV death. There were other tests I read about, and they basically said you want fasting glucose to be between 74-89. Mine is typically around 80, but after my last show i went a little crazy with waffles, pancakes, and sugary cereals. After 6 weeks my fasted glucose was 100..so it doesn't take long to send it the wrong way.

Something else that I found real interesting is that Vitamin C and glucose compete with each other to make entry from our blood to our cells. Since vitamin C helps in collagen formation (the backbone of our arteries), guess what happens when we eat to many carbs? I'm sure you can figure that one out...haha..

I could really go on and on about why I dislike excessive carbs so much...

In terms of govt stand on supplements - don't really know, and don't care...they don't have our best interest in mind health wise, so I don't waste my time worrying about what they say.

Statins i will get into alot more as we go on with this conversation..

Take care!
JM

 

[mountaindog1]

I am also very interested in the subject.

I just read some information about how we are loaded with Omega six in this country and dangerously low in Omega three.

Apparentlly the Omega 6 and Omega 3 actually compete with each other.

Like a game of musical chairs with 20 girls [Omega 6] and one guy [Omega 3]. Obviously the guy [Omega 3] isn't going to win very often.

So anyway, the Omega 3 6 9 products are not needed and sort of a waste of dollars.

What I am doing is buying straight Omega 3, eating salmon and walnuts. I will post my blood work as well. I am eating lots of green vegetable and protein sources other than the fish are chicken and protein powder with the occasional steak.

Hi JT - yes, this is why I recommend grass fed meats and dairy...the PH in the cows rumen gets way to acidic from eating grains and kills the Omega 3 (and CLA for that matter).

Something else, and I am glad you brought this up, there is ALOT of discussion going on right now in the world of cholesterol about the real danger being LDL that oxidizes. No one knows for sure if this is cause or effect, but we DO know from many studies that diets high in Omega 6 (they used linoleic acid in the studies) increase oxidation of PUFAs. The reason is that the actual LDL particles contain alot of polyunsaturated fatty acids from diet, and are therefore prone to oxidation in the particle. Diets that are higher in monounsaturated and saturated fat don't have this vulnerability. One other thing that is interesting, is that diets high in PUFAs do indeed lower LDL and total cholesterol levels, but again, you get too much, and you are possibly doing major damage by influencing LDL oxidation..so it's a risk vs reward thing...this is why I don't think it's wise to megadose fish oil, or even take Omega 6 supps like evening primrose for those eating a normal healthy diet....A little bit of fish oil or even better wild alaskan salmon is plenty to get the good benefits...

Hope this makes sense...I feel like i was talking in one long run on sentence..haha

JM

 

[AWN2004]

Hi Awn - hope all is well with training and life..I'll touch on a few things you asked.

In terms of sugar and refined carbs, and how they effect cholesterol levels...diets with too much refined carb increase total cholesterol, and also Triglycerdies. Triglycerides is the one that scares me...pair that with low HDL and you have a recipe for disaster. The science behind this is that your body doesn't get shit from refined carbs in terms of vitamins and minerals, and therefore cannabilizes (spelling?) it's own nutrient stores to metabolize it...leaving less to metaboize cholesterol...

One of things that Serrano did for me around 2007 or 2008, was put me on Chromium to manage my insulin levels. He also said it would raise my HDL some, and it did by a few points..I think it was like 4 points higher next test??

Personally i think diets high in carbs (mostly refined) are a real bad idea. We know that high insulin levels promote CHD BIG TIME, but people just don't worry about 10 or 20 years down the road. There was a Norwegian study, can't think of the name of it, but anyway the end result was that having a high resting glucose (over 89) results in a greater than 50% increase in risk of CV death. There were other tests I read about, and they basically said you want fasting glucose to be between 74-89. Mine is typically around 80, but after my last show i went a little crazy with waffles, pancakes, and sugary cereals. After 6 weeks my fasted glucose was 100..so it doesn't take long to send it the wrong way.

Something else that I found real interesting is that Vitamin C and glucose compete with each other to make entry from our blood to our cells. Since vitamin C helps in collagen formation (the backbone of our arteries), guess what happens when we eat to many carbs? I'm sure you can figure that one out...haha..

I could really go on and on about why I dislike excessive carbs so much...

In terms of govt stand on supplements - don't really know, and don't care...they don't have our best interest in mind health wise, so I don't waste my time worrying about what they say.

Statins i will get into alot more as we go on with this conversation..

Take care!
JM

Thanks for taking the time to respond. I kinda already know the answer to my questions as I mentioned but I wanted to see what you thought about a couple of things.

I mention the government because of some current legislation that is being purposed that would hurt the smaller farming industry. Couple that with certain lobbyists trying to get things banned like red yeast rice extract and other vitamins that have been proven to lower cholesterol, and it's enough to make you ask yourself if they really think we are that stupid. I know that's going a bit off track but what I'm trying to get at is that as you mentioned earlier, we get taught the wrong message. It's a scare tactic that really gets under my skin. Here is a prime example.

My dad is almost 70 years old. He is in great health besides having a genetic predilection for low good/bad high cholesterol. It's always been a nagging issue in terms of his health. My real grandfather who I never met died at the the age of 49 from a massive heart attack. He wasn't overweight nor did he live a drastically unhealthy live style according to my dad. My dad falls into the same category. He is 6'3 and around 195lbs at 69 years old. About two years ago he was put on a statin know as.....yep you guessed it Lipitor. Never once did the physician he was seeing ask about his diet or better yet, what he wasn't doing in his diet. After being on the drug for several months he asked me for my opinion and told me he hated getting the repeated blood work and said he didn't feel well on it. What myself, mother, and father decided to do was what has been typed in one way or another over the course of this thread. He changed his diet and added a couple of natural supplements which included cold pressed omega 3 oil, garlic, vitamin E, CoQ10, and some red yeast rice extract. His diet changes included wild salmon, oatmeal every morning, and no more red meat from the grocery store. He also ate less carbs than before. While doing this, he dropped about 10lbs and then after several months of no Lipitor coupled with the diet changes he held his current numbers to wear they were with the drug. After seeing this was possible, he decided to tell his doctor what he was doing and his physician told him it was only a matter of time before he would be dealing with high cholesterol. That was probably 17 months ago. My father also has a new physician. I'm going to ask him if he has his numbers from the panels and if I can post them because it only backs up the fact that it's possible to change things. I know he used the other supplements as well but I honestly believe the addition to the high amounts of good fats in his diet really helped him tremendously.

The point I'm making is that I'm on the same page as you in regards to the power of smart eating for health. More people need to follow suit and make the change. We get brainwashed as a society through the various agents of socialization and it might be a good time to go against the grain of what the current media thinks is best for us and decide for ourselves. Thank you for taking the time to post all of this John, it's really a great service you're doing.

AWN

 

[totalrecomp]

Thanks for taking the time to respond. I kinda already know the answer to my questions as I mentioned but I wanted to see what you thought about a couple of things.

I mention the government because of some current legislation that is being purposed that would hurt the smaller farming industry. Couple that with certain lobbyists trying to get things banned like red yeast rice extract and other vitamins that have been proven to lower cholesterol, and it's enough to make you ask yourself if they really think we are that stupid. I know that's going a bit off track but what I'm trying to get at is that as you mentioned earlier, we get taught the wrong message. It's a scare tactic that really gets under my skin. Here is a prime example.

My dad is almost 70 years old. He is in great health besides having a genetic predilection for low good/bad high cholesterol. It's always been a nagging issue in terms of his health. My real grandfather who I never met died at the the age of 49 from a massive heart attack. He wasn't overweight nor did he live a drastically unhealthy live style according to my dad. My dad falls into the same category. He is 6'3 and around 195lbs at 69 years old. About two years ago he was put on a statin know as.....yep you guessed it Lipitor. Never once did the physician he was seeing ask about his diet or better yet, what he wasn't doing in his diet. After being on the drug for several months he asked me for my opinion and told me he hated getting the repeated blood work and said he didn't feel well on it. What myself, mother, and father decided to do was what has been typed in one way or another over the course of this thread. He changed his diet and added a couple of natural supplements which included cold pressed omega 3 oil, garlic, vitamin E, CoQ10, and some red yeast rice extract. His diet changes included wild salmon, oatmeal every morning, and no more red meat from the grocery store. He also ate less carbs than before. While doing this, he dropped about 10lbs and then after several months of no Lipitor coupled with the diet changes he held his current numbers to wear they were with the drug. After seeing this was possible, he decided to tell his doctor what he was doing and his physician told him it was only a matter of time before he would be dealing with high cholesterol. That was probably 17 months ago. My father also has a new physician. I'm going to ask him if he has his numbers from the panels and if I can post them because it only backs up the fact that it's possible to change things. I know he used the other supplements as well but I honestly believe the addition to the high amounts of good fats in his diet really helped him tremendously.

The point I'm making is that I'm on the same page as you in regards to the power of smart eating for health. More people need to follow suit and make the change. We get brainwashed as a society through the various agents of socialization and it might be a good time to go against the grain of what the current media thinks is best for us and decide for ourselves. Thank you for taking the time to post all of this John, it's really a great service you're doing.

AWN

I love the fact that the old doc said it was a matter of time before his levels went back up(ldl) and back down(hdl). I mean after all only a drug can diagnose treat, cure or prevent disease in this country. Its the law you know I always laugh because by this logic you can't treat scurvy with vitamin C, as then it becomes a drug due to it curring your scurvy.:banghead:

 

[communistkiller]

I am looking for nutrition information on grass fed beef, organic chicken, and omega eggs... Are there any sites you recommend that have the most accurate information?

... I use fitday.com for the rest of my nutrient information, but that site doesnt have information on the above...

Thanks for your help

 

[NotaDoctor]

Great info MD.. and every body else who's sharing info

 

[JETHRO TULL]

That's good info, man!

Hi JT - yes, this is why I recommend grass fed meats and dairy...the PH in the cows rumen gets way to acidic from eating grains and kills the Omega 3 (and CLA for that matter).

Something else, and I am glad you brought this up, there is ALOT of discussion going on right now in the world of cholesterol about the real danger being LDL that oxidizes. No one knows for sure if this is cause or effect, but we DO know from many studies that diets high in Omega 6 (they used linoleic acid in the studies) increase oxidation of PUFAs. The reason is that the actual LDL particles contain alot of polyunsaturated fatty acids from diet, and are therefore prone to oxidation in the particle. Diets that are higher in monounsaturated and saturated fat don't have this vulnerability. One other thing that is interesting, is that diets high in PUFAs do indeed lower LDL and total cholesterol levels, but again, you get too much, and you are possibly doing major damage by influencing LDL oxidation..so it's a risk vs reward thing...this is why I don't think it's wise to megadose fish oil, or even take Omega 6 supps like evening primrose for those eating a normal healthy diet....A little bit of fish oil or even better wild alaskan salmon is plenty to get the good benefits...

Hope this makes sense...I feel like i was talking in one long run on sentence..haha
JM

My girl has angus and if they aren't out there pawing through the snow to get to the grass and if someone doesn't haul a round bail out there- those buggers are not going to eat. Grain is expensive! lol.

I am thawing some meat out right now to eat after I do chest. I appreciate the time you take making posts on the board.

 

[candyman269]

 

[rippedyearround]

JM -

Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with us all. Please keep it coming!

 

[JETHRO TULL]

What's with the rolling eyes?

Are you being insulting?

 

[mountaindog1]

Are you being insulting?

I'll be back on this thread later in the week...always busy with website at end of month...Talk soon,
JM

 

[JETHRO TULL]

I didn't think YOU were insulting me.

I'll be back on this thread later in the week...always busy with website at end of month...Talk soon,
JM

I saw that "candy" was rolling his eyes at my response and was wondering what was up.

 

[ojs]

This is a great thread!! And this subject is a major focus and concern to me with my heart issues.

 

[Thor]

GREAT INFO JM !

Thanks man, us older guys need to pay attention to this stuff. I actually just had my cholesterol checked and my total was 220,... hdl was 48,... ldl was 158 which is kinda high, not sure what to do about ldl, I take fish oil and niacin and am thinking about red yeast rice next.

 

[Mastodon]

Bumping this thread back. Great thread John, I really hope you share more of your wisdom on this topic with us. I have high cholesterol with low HDL and high LDL levels and this thread is of great interest to me.

 

[J_Diggs]

Fantastic thread! Thanks so much for your insight MD!

There truly is a pattern that is coming to light of folks in the medical field that have manipulated studies in order to illustrate their intended result as opposed to implementing true critical thinking.

Please keep the informaiton coming!

Also, I know you mentioned you'd get to statins later, but I would really appreciate any insight on the use of natural statins such as Red Rice Yeast as I've just implemented this within my supplement regimen at 1,200mg, twice/day. Cheers!

 

[ojs]

Also, I know you mentioned you'd get to statins later, but I would really appreciate any insight on the use of natural statins such as Red Rice Yeast as I've just implemented this within my supplement regimen at 1,200mg, twice/day. Cheers!

Bump this.

...John, I keep hearing that Red Rice Yeast lowers natural Testosterone. So I've stayed away from it. If that's a myth, then by all means put on your "Myth Buster" hat, and bust it.