Nandrolone Data (including joint pain relief mechanisms [by Type-IIx])

[j4ever]

It's not a dumb question at all brother. I've actually addressed it in a quasi-article that I've written and sent to OuchThatHurts (he's going to give a condensed and simplified rehashing). Look out for it soon, it'll be titled something like "Distinguishing Prolactin vs. Progestins."

Basically, wrt nandrolone, prolactin is a secondary concern (its expression can be up-regulated by estrogens, but not by nandrolone per se). Progestagenic action of nandrolone (PR binding) is indeed influenced by high estradiol concentrations, causing secondary hypogonadism, gynecomastia. So an AI is indicated, rather than any prolactin-lowering agent, with these symptoms.

will be interesting to see, i can tell you for me and maybe its age, lol, (56) i cant handle much of a dose of anything anymore, and its been like that for several years so i just dont do it, started low dose NPP 3 weeks ago 60mg per week split into 2 injects for some joint relief, which i got in about a week or so, but also in about a week sleep no good, ( like being half asleep half awake ) i have had this same exp with low dose GH 1.5-2iu ed, same exp with igf1 100mcg a day then dropped to 50mcg ed same thing, bloodwork just before starting NPP estradiol was 28 on trt 110mg a week, going to pull NPP back slightly to 50mg a week to see what happens, will be getting bloods in about a month, on a side note i am tired when i fist get out of the bed but after that i am not tired at all during the day even on crap sleep.

 

[Muay Thai]

Yes.. much of the " deca dick" issues are brought on by high estro levels. The common bro science was to up test to counter deca dick. He works briefly. Then you are hit again.

this should be a sticky somewhere

 

[MasteroniPepperoni]

It's not a dumb question at all brother. I've actually addressed it in a quasi-article that I've written and sent to OuchThatHurts (he's going to give a condensed and simplified rehashing). Look out for it soon, it'll be titled something like "Distinguishing Prolactin vs. Progestins."

Basically, wrt nandrolone, prolactin is a secondary concern (its expression can be up-regulated by estrogens, but not by nandrolone per se). Progestagenic action of nandrolone (PR binding) is indeed influenced by high estradiol concentrations, causing secondary hypogonadism, gynecomastia. So an AI is indicated, rather than any prolactin-lowering agent, with these symptoms.

This is what I always thought. I haven’t used nandrolone and no plans as of yet, but how can we counteract progesterone specific sides? Selective Progesterone receptor modulators are rare and not sure the safety of them. I’m guessing keep estrogen low? Running test at a very stable trt dose and keeping other aromatizing compounds out?

Thank you , Type love the knowledge

 

[Zarioh]

I wrote a post here: https://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/index.php?threads/primo-vs-tren-mast.170767/post-3075085 that is basically a brain dump of features unique to Tren, EQ, Deca, Drol.

When it comes to analyses of strictly skeletal muscle hypertrophy in man, I believe that Deca > Tren > Test (at equimolar doses). But, Tren potently increases skeletal muscle while concomitantly reducing fat mass (very potent recomp agent). Test potentiates the action of Deca & Tren (so its use in combination with either or BOTH of the other two makes is synergistic, i.e., 1 + 1 > 2).

There is no data quantifying body composition changes in humans with tren. There is short-term (8 weeks if memory serves), low dose (200 mg if memory serves) data of nandrolone with a small number of subjects that fails to detect a significant between-group difference in skeletal muscle hypertrophy between test vs. nandrolone. But extend out duration and increase dose, use sensitive measures like muscle ultrasound, increase the number of subjects, I am sure you'd see greater actual skeletal muscle gains in 800 mg nandrolone vs. 800 mg testosterone x 24 weeks. But the data is not actually there to support that, it's supposition influenced by experience (semi-bro-science) and a mere hypothesis, not yet proven nor disproven.

The human data certainly shows that Primo << Nandrolone (by a factor of ~4, on an equimolar basis) in skeletal muscle hypertrophy in humans. See: https://www.professionalmuscle.com/...ad-assessment-of-strengths-weaknesses.169109/

That was exactly what I was looking for! Thank you for sharing. May try to switch the high test for next cycle and do high deca, moderate test.

 

[Elvia1023]

Deca is my fav injectable and this thread is a wealth of information. I am adding 300mg to my current blast soon. If it's not used as the main injectable then I use it as a compliment for everything else. It aids muscle growth, recovery and helps my joints so enables me to lift progressively over time. I will be using it with test and primo.

 

[Mute]

I’ll just chime in and ask my dumb question, I’m running a simple 500Cyp and 300NPP and this will be my fifth week on it. I’ve noticed my blood pressure has slightly increased and has caused me to have a nose bleed once a day and it just started occurring over a week ago. Idk if it’s due to stress because I lost a friend within that time frame and today was his funeral or maybe I just need to cut the dose in half to see if that’ll make a difference.

 

[Scorpyd]

I’ll just chime in and ask my dumb question, I’m running a simple 500Cyp and 300NPP and this will be my fifth week on it. I’ve noticed my blood pressure has slightly increased and has caused me to have a nose bleed once a day and it just started occurring over a week ago. Idk if it’s due to stress because I lost a friend within that time frame and today was his funeral or maybe I just need to cut the dose in half to see if that’ll make a difference.

I suggest cutting dosages in half for two weeks and re access . A couple weeks at half that Test and NPP should not change your workout much. Next monitor your BP and see your Doc if its still elevated and your having nose bleeds.

 

[Mute]

I suggest cutting dosages in half for two weeks and re access . A couple weeks at half that Test and NPP should not change your workout much. Next monitor your BP and see your Doc if its still elevated and your having nose bleeds.

I appreciate the quick response!

 

[juggy38]

I used to hate deca. Blue mood, libido trash, pecker soft. Slight bloat, puffy nipples. Hated the drug.

Lats recommended adding mast with every nandrolone cycle. Now, I’ll usually run 300mg/300-400/400-600. Test/mast/deca….and it’s by far my most productive cycle. Libido high, bloat neutralized, knees feel like I’m 25 again…size and strength way up


I’d like to try 300/300/700 test/deca/primo next run

 

[jeroendebleser]

Just wanted to add another thanks for taking the time to post all of this for us. It's greatly appreciated

 

[Nicky_Slim24]

I used to hate deca. Blue mood, libido trash, pecker soft. Slight bloat, puffy nipples. Hated the drug.

Lats recommended adding mast with every nandrolone cycle. Now, I’ll usually run 300mg/300-400/400-600. Test/mast/deca….and it’s by far my most productive cycle. Libido high, bloat neutralized, knees feel like I’m 25 again…size and strength way up


I’d like to try 300/300/700 test/deca/primo next run

Been thinking of going with something similar for my next cycle. Did u use an ai or anything in there or the mast pretty much neutralize that?

 

[LATS]

Been thinking of going with something similar for my next cycle. Did u use an ai or anything in there or the mast pretty much neutralize that?

Mast will help but it depends on the test dosage and how bad you convert estro.. but mast is great at estro modulation and keeping prolactin down.. its a must for me in having a nandrolone in the cycle.. but if test is on the lower end mast maybe all you need

 

[Nicky_Slim24]

Mast will help but it depends on the test dosage and how bad you convert estro.. but mast is great at estro modulation and keeping prolactin down.. its a must for me in having a nandrolone in the cycle.. but if test is on the lower end mast maybe all you need

Was thinking of doing 300/300/300 test/mast/deca. Typically I can run test at 500 without any e sides. I have adex and nolva on hand always in case

 

[LATS]

Was thinking of doing 300/300/300 test/mast/deca. Typically I can run test at 500 without any e sides. I have adex and nolva on hand always in case

I'd feel it out.. running mast equal to test may bring about achy joints etc .. but I woukdnt touch a AI at that dose..

 

[Nicky_Slim24]

I'd feel it out.. running mast equal to test may bring about achy joints etc .. but I woukdnt touch a AI at that dose..

I was planning on that as the start and feeling it out. Gives me room to up the test if need be. Appreciate ur insight

 

[Brock456]

Was thinking of doing 300/300/300 test/mast/deca. Typically I can run test at 500 without any e sides. I have adex and nolva on hand always in case

My last blast was
Test 1200
Deca 800
Mast 200

I like using the lowest dosage of Mast as I can. 200mg had my libido real high. No Deca dick.

Unfortunately I noticed I started losing hair in the top back of my head prob from Mast. Baldness does not run in my family so that will prob be end of that for me.

 

[juggy38]

I do run 6.25 aromasin 2x a week when deca is 600mg abs test is 300, mast 300.

Deca makes estrogen hit harder (seems like)

But if I ran 300/300/300 I’d be fine no AI.

I’ve contemplated trying 300T/300deca/600 mast as a cutter just to see what it’s like.

Orr you could do like 125 test/900 deca/400 mast. That would be interesting lol

 

[warlock]

I do run 6.25 aromasin 2x a week when deca is 600mg abs test is 300, mast 300.

Shouldn't aromasin (due to its half-life) be taken daily for full effects?

 

[LATS]

Shouldn't aromasin (due to its half-life) be taken daily for full effects?

Aromasin is a suicide inhibitor.. yes it has a short half life BUT... it takes roughly 72 to 96 hours for estro to come back to baseline.. so to dose aromasin everyday woukd have a accumulating effect that coukd tank e2 real quick.. twice a week is enough for most

 

[juggy38]

Aromasin is a suicide inhibitor.. yes it has a short half life BUT... it takes roughly 72 to 96 hours for estro to come back to baseline.. so to dose aromasin everyday woukd have a accumulating effect that coukd tank e2 real quick.. twice a week is enough for most

Nailed it. It’s much easier to dial in for me with 2x dosing. Unless I was on some cycle that requires quite higher aromasin