Nandrolone increases the Estrogenic Potency of Testosterone

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

Type 2 posted an article on this. Tren lowers prolactin. Nandrolone lowers prolactin as well. https://thinksteroids.com/community...-deca-serm-vs-ai-logic-by-type-iix.134410959/

The only thing I saw about deca and prolactin in say 150-200 mgs ,hrt dose, do not show a significant increase in prolactin. Interesting how Ment, a 19 nor , increases prolactin.

 

[phoenix2]

The only thing I saw about deca and prolactin in say 150-200 mgs ,hrt dose, do not show a significant increase in prolactin. Interesting how Ment, a 19 nor , increases prolactin.

Because ment aromatizes into the potent 7-alpha methyl-estradiol. Nandrolones do not increase prolactin per se, it's always the aromatization to estrogen (e2 for test, 7-alpha methyl-e2 for trestolone) that does it.
High estrogens = disruption of hypotalamic/pituitary dopaminergic signalling, less dopamine reaches D2 receptors in the pituitary gland and more prolactin is released.

 

[Type-IIx]

Type 2 posted an article on this. Tren lowers prolactin. Nandrolone lowers prolactin as well. https://thinksteroids.com/community...-deca-serm-vs-ai-logic-by-type-iix.134410959/

The dose/response for prolactin increases by nandrolone is unknown, the cited study by Maeda and colleagues used low dose nandrolone in male haemodialysis patients and showed no significant effect.

If it were as simple as dopamine high, prolactin low; dopamine low, prolactin high, then heroin would potently stimulate libido & decrease prolactin. Instead, it acts as a "chemical orgasm" and potently suppresses libido (by acting on the inhibitory system), and increases prolactin.

Though dopamine serves a predominant role in regulating prolactin secretion, the effect of nandrolone on prolactin is not as simple as nandrolone high, dopamine low, therefore prolactin high. Rather, because nandrolone increases dopamine metabolism (i.e., net breakdown) as reflected by serum homovanillic acid, whether this reflects changes to dopamine from intra- and/or extra- ceberbral sources is unknown. We think that it's likely related to decreased dopamine receptor number.

 

[gains4000]

The dose/response for prolactin increases by nandrolone is unknown, the cited study by Maeda and colleagues used low dose nandrolone in male haemodialysis patients and showed no significant effect.

If it were as simple as dopamine high, prolactin low; dopamine low, prolactin high, then heroin would potently stimulate libido & decrease prolactin. Instead, it acts as a "chemical orgasm" and potently suppresses libido (by acting on the inhibitory system), and increases prolactin.

Though dopamine serves a predominant role in regulating prolactin secretion, the effect of nandrolone on prolactin is not as simple as nandrolone high, dopamine low, therefore prolactin high. Rather, because nandrolone increases dopamine metabolism (i.e., net breakdown) as reflected by serum homovanillic acid, whether this reflects changes to dopamine from intra- and/or extra- ceberbral sources is unknown. We think that it's likely related to decreased dopamine receptor number.

i have talked to many 1970's-1980's bodybuilders and none of them had any prolactin side effects from deca base. None of them had any clue what caber or prami was. None of them ever heard of "deca dick" or uncontrollable estrogen/progesterone/prl side effects. they all say testosterone was full of side effects whereas nandrolone was very clean.

Now they did stack nandrolone with winstrol, mast, primo etc which can also antagonize e2/prolactin so take that for what its worth.

 

[ElTigre]

We think that it's likely related to decreased dopamine receptor number.

How fluid is this effect on dopamine receptors? For example, if the use of nandrolone can reduce the number dopamine receptors, would the number of dopamine receptors rebound after cessation of nandrolone use?

 

[BALDNAZI]

Soooooo always more deca than test? Always did the opposite like most. I’ve wanted to try it.

What about if your TRT dose is 250-300 test but you wanted to add deca in. Do you lower test and make up the difference with deca? Get more benefit out of TRT this way?

And then full on cycle have a test base then run higher deca if those were the only 2 compounds you had access to?

 

[gains4000]

Soooooo always more deca than test? Always did the opposite like most. I’ve wanted to try it.

What about if your TRT dose is 250-300 test but you wanted to add deca in. Do you lower test and make up the difference with deca? Get more benefit out of TRT this way?

And then full on cycle have a test base then run higher deca if those were the only 2 compounds you had access to?

During the golden era of bodybuilding when bodybuilders like Arnold, Frank Zane, Robby Robinson, and Mike Mentzer etc. were building their physiques, bodybuilders typically used Deca as the injectable component of their steroid cycles. Bodybuilders in the golden era typically used DECA without testosterone in their cycles. Stacking an oral steroid like Dianabol alongside injectable DECA was the standard muscle mass building cycle of choice for bodybuilders in the 70's and 80's. DECA was not widely known for producing progesterone and prolactin related side effects such as being unable to orgasm or get an erection until bodybuilders started combining it together with testosterone simultaneously. DECA and testosterone mix very badly for the majority of bodybuilders. The Deca seems to sensitize the body to some of the female hormones that Testosterone turns into. At the same time, Testosterone seems to sensitize the body to some of the progesterone/prolactin related effects of Deca. Until the mid 80's there weren't effective estrogen blockers on the market and testosterone use was limited because of its propensity to turn into estrogen inside the body. During the golden era of bodybuilding, bodybuilders favored Deca over testosterone because they did not get estrogen related side effects or bloating from using Deca. In the golden era of bodybuilding Testosterone was known as a dirty drug with lots of estrogen side effects.

The Deca and Dbol stack with no injectable Testosterone was the most popular steroid cycle of the 1980's. The bodybuilders during that time were regulated by doctors, and steroids were not controlled substances. Nandrolone or Deca was one of the steroids that was widely prescribed for a number of reasons including; to assist with muscle gain and recovery from low bodyweight, malnourishment, severe burns, and joint repair. Somewhere along the lines, Nandrolone became misunderstood. I believe the reason for this is largely due to the prevalence of the usage of testosterone as a base for all steroid cycles (this phenomenon started in the early 2000s as a result of the proliferation of anabolic steroids knowledge on internet forums). The combination of nandrolone and testosterone started to produce side effects in many people, namely the famous DECA DICK. This is a bro-scientific term that describes the phenomenon of having a completely limp and unresponsive penis when combining Testosterone and Nandrolone. Combining Testosterone and Nandrolone together can raise estrogen, progesterone, and prolactin to high levels in some people, which leads to crippling sexual side effects. HOWEVER, what we have forgotten is that the use of Nandrolone WITHOUT testosterone as a base has been well researched and tolerated in humans. We also have extensive anecdotal reports from bodybuilders and doctors all through the 70s and 80s supporting this theory as well. The truth is that the use of Nandrolone has been shown to have great benefits to muscle gain and joint health with minimal side effects if the person administering it uses solely Nandrolone.

 

[phoenix2]

I don't know anyone that has ever taken nandrolone without test, but i know many guys who have run tren by itself. Some of them reported sexual sides, other ones never had any dick problem.
I've tried tren alone, masteron alone, tren and masteron without test and everytime my dick was limp. Yes, i didn't have estrogenic sides and i was shredded, but my tool was useless. As soon as i've added test into the mix, my dick went back to life. So there could be some missing piece of puzzle that we don't know.

 

[Hammer4]

I ran 80 mg test and 300 deca before and penis worked fine. Felt I wasn't great mentally so immediately stopped after 8 weeks.

 

[gains4000]

I ran 80 mg test and 300 deca before and penis worked fine. Felt I wasn't great mentally so immediately stopped after 8 weeks.

seems like nandrolone just fucks with people head. i personally like Trestolone (MENT) more than deca or tren. i get zero side effects from MENT and it is much more androgenic than nandrolone so it is actually being studied for Male androgen replacement therapy at dosages less than 2mg a day. Mike arnold has great write ups on MENT.

 

[Hammer4]

seems like nandrolone just fucks with people head. i personally like Trestolone (MENT) more than deca or tren. i get zero side effects from MENT and it is much more androgenic than nandrolone so it is actually being studied for Male androgen replacement therapy at dosages less than 2mg a day. Mike arnold has great write ups on MENT.

I've heard great things but can be difficult to source

@luki7788 mentioned running a log for a trest run soon I believe. I will defintely follow along if so.

 

[gains4000]

I've heard great things but can be difficult to source

@luki7788 mentioned running a log for a trest run soon I believe. I will defintely follow along if so.

There are plenty of sources on this forum selling Trestolone Acetate and even trest E! just look a little more into it , expensive drug but it gives no libido issues, increases appetite, and is the strongest non methylated anabolic steroid on earth mg for mg.

 

[totalrecomp]

i have talked to many 1970's-1980's bodybuilders and none of them had any prolactin side effects from deca base. None of them had any clue what caber or prami was. None of them ever heard of "deca dick" or uncontrollable estrogen/progesterone/prl side effects. they all say testosterone was full of side effects whereas nandrolone was very clean.

Now they did stack nandrolone with winstrol, mast, primo etc which can also antagonize e2/prolactin so take that for what its worth.

I wonder how many of them tried testosterone SOLO and not combined with nandrolone?????

 

[gains4000]

I wonder how many of them tried testosterone SOLO and not combined with nandrolone?????

Nandrolone is a better anabolic than testosterone mg for mg and doesn't induce estrogenic side effects at blasting dosages like Testosterone. Testosterone was the first steroid synthesized and most synthetic androgens are simply better than test. I strongly disagree with the "Test is best and run as much test as you can handle crowd". The whole point of synthetic androgens is to maximize Anabolic effects and reduce androgenic effects.

 

[totalrecomp]

Nandrolone is a better anabolic than testosterone mg for mg and doesn't induce estrogenic side effects at blasting dosages like Testosterone. Testosterone was the first steroid synthesized and most synthetic androgens are simply better than test. I strongly disagree with the "Test is best and run as much test as you can handle crowd". The whole point of synthetic androgens is to maximize Anabolic effects and reduce androgenic effects.

That is a matter of perspective as to "best/better."

At my worst I had TOTAL TEST OF 13ng/dl, so essentially castrated. I can attest NOTHING(including the greatly lauded trest) comes close to carrying out ALL OF THE BIOLOGICAL functions of testosterone NONE OF THEM.

Man continues to think we can best nature and it always has been and will continue to be foolish assuming so.

NOW can other steroids do CERTAIN THINGS better than test? Of course, absolutely. This alone does not, IMO, make them better overall.

 

[gains4000]

That is a matter of perspective as to "best/better."

At my worst I had TOTAL TEST OF 13ng/dl, so essentially castrated. I can attest NOTHING(including the greatly lauded trest) comes close to carrying out ALL OF THE BIOLOGICAL functions of testosterone NONE OF THEM.

Man continues to think we can best nature and it always has been and will continue to be foolish assuming so.

NOW can other steroids do CERTAIN THINGS better than test? Of course, absolutely. This alone does not, IMO, make them better overall.

Respectfully disagree, We have created more powerful versions of the testosterone molecule that blow it out the water.

Ill use TRT when i am an old man, for now i will experiment with much more anabolic compounds.

ive used enough testosterone in my bodybuilding journey and i just don't think it is special. Sure its good for anti aging and quality of life but i feel like a natural on 750mg test, lol. Give me more dbol, anavar, MENT, Tren, Abombs, winny ...test can sit on the sidelines for now.

 

[juggy38]

@Type-IIx didn’t you cover your thoughts on where you fall on the masteron skeletal. Muscle tissue growth?

I can’t remember if you summarized the Peter Bond views.

 

[totalrecomp]

Respectfully disagree, We have created more powerful versions of the testosterone molecule that blow it out the water.

Ill use TRT when i am an old man, for now i will experiment with much more anabolic compounds.

ive used enough testosterone in my bodybuilding journey and i just don't think it is special. Sure its good for anti aging and quality of life but i feel like a natural on 750mg test, lol. Give me more dbol, anavar, MENT, Tren, Abombs, winny ...test can sit on the sidelines for now.

Missed the point entirely I see. Good day sir.

 

[gains4000]

This is the guy who puts all his athletes on Deca only

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

Deca solo for me caused limp penis . After week three or four sex drive became nothing, as in days without any kind of erection,untill I added in dbol, or Cialis or both. Expiriment for yourself.

I've done 225 mgs test, 600 deca and sex drive dropped a lot, limp dick, On hrt after deca solo at 210 mgs a week, added in dbol some days and sex drive raised. Then did 10 mgs test eod or e3d and sex drive returned.

Currently on 600 deca and 10 mgs dbol and sex drive has been high. 3 xs daily last few days, without Cialis. Sex drive is a state of mind, like sex with a partner it's mental more than anything, when you're there ,I say enjoy it and don't suppress it. Kegals have helped as well,lots of them!

Its possible Deca could change brain chemistry by lowering dopamine. Say a person has higher than normal dopamine levels , takes deca for months upon month for years, like any drug it can change brain chemistry.