Nandrolone increases the Estrogenic Potency of Testosterone

[TheRoid]

Does anyone in this thread have a link to a study or article showing Primo, Mast, Win really and truly lowers serum E2? If so, would you please send it to me?

Thanks in advance,
O.T.Hurts

I believe we're not going to find anything useful for the simple fact that all studies used them as monotherapy, and all lower E2 as a results of impaired natural Testosterone production.
We'd need comparative studies with group A on T replacement and group B on T replacement + Mast/Primo/Winstrol.
Sci-fi , I'm afraid.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

I've never seen one.. I have seen people post blood work where e2 has taken a hit from dht derivatives buy there is no literature that woukd show as to why. Now if you look at studies on masteron it had good capabilities as a estrogen modulator At the receptor.. hence its ability to reduce breast tumors affected by estrogen etc. Now mast etc does have mild AI benefit but very mild.. so this reduction in e2 when primo etc is present is hard as to why when the literature just doesn't show that it has that ability.. victor black has addressed this numerous times with his research into it and also cannot find the correlation

Right. And it can't be from competition for aromatization bc mast doesn't.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

I believe we're not going to find anything useful for the simple fact that all studies used them as monotherapy, and all lower E2 as a results of impaired natural Testosterone production.
We'd need comparative studies with group A on T replacement and group B on T replacement + Mast/Primo/Winstrol.
Sci-fi , I'm afraid.

Right again. What we have to do is look at exactly where E2 and other estrogens come from in healthy males and see if the DHT derivatives and similar like Mast, Primo, Winstrol, etc if those compounds have any potency in those areas. Also probably not going to happen.

 

[marssel]

i have tried dbol, ment, and proviron without test and all were great for libido. But all those drugs have been studied without test for androgen deficient men. i do think a TRT dosage of testosterone should always be employed , i just like experimenting.

I agree trt shoukd always be a baseline and yea dbol alone will have you like a teenager but it’s very androgenic at least for me it is. I LOVE Provirion but have never taken ment, ever.

 

[marssel]

Right. And it can't be from competition for aromatization bc mast doesn't.

Yep mast is only attached to SHBG

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

I could not agree more. With 0 androgenicity there is 0 anabolism. (one begets the other)

No steroid has a androgenic ratio of zero. Dbol from the research, on rats, has about half the androgenicity of test. It seems to increase well being more than most other oral steroids. (Protodrol and Phera or Madol especially seemed, may still seem to do that, but they're ten years old and potency has gone down percentile wise.)

From own research I don't get too many androgenic effects at 20 mgs dbol or less.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

No steroid has a androgenic ratio of zero.

No, none. If there is no androgenicity, there is no anabolism with AAS.

 

[Type-IIx]

Good point. That would lead to false blood readings on plasma E2 levels/concentrations with compounds like Masteron acting as an estrogen receptor modulator (ERM).

Then it only stands to reason that bloodwork may be misleading and we would have exactly zero other ways to know other than "FEELZ".

And feelz is impossible to gauge relatively.

Rather than acting as an ER-modulating drug (e.g., SERMs which exert antagonist action on the estrogen receptors in the hypothalamus and pituitary—thereby increasing LH, FSH and T), Mast prevents the uptake of estrogens into (e.g., breast) cells (reducing symptoms of gynecomastia). Probably as well synovial cells (dry & "creaky" joints), and other cells/tissues for which we do not have data.

Trams, G. (1977). Effect of drostanolone propionate on the binding of oestradiol and dihydrotestosterone by normal and malignant target tissues. European Journal of Cancer (1965), 13(2), 149–153. doi:10.1016/0014-2964(77)90193-1.

Trams showed that Mast does not competitively bind ER ("...does not affect the oestrogen binding capacity of these tissues."). Rather, it seems to reduce (markedly) the uptake of estradiol in breast cancer tissue (6).

 

[MouthBreather1982]

I feel like it’s my estro being crashed and mast or anything competing for test or estro in anyway besides some orals like tbol or dbol does this. I also don’t feel much test any longer, no acne on back or chest on large dosages. I’m wondering if my body figured out a way to controll or limit estrogen on test. I wish I could add another anabolic but literally everything messes with my drive and motivation sometimes with deca, I thought maybe it was prolactin lowering dopamine that was making me lazy. Not sure about the estrogen thing and why I’m the opposite of everyone, but if I run mast it cancels out the confidence of the test and I literally get like worried about what people think about me etc and normally wouldn’t care. I guess it’s obviously the estro competition but curious if there is a way to fix this with like TRT for a while with something that “free” up more test? Or is that old school bronscience at this point. Things have changed so much I really only know how to run test, anything else I add leads to me being a lazy non horny woman.