National Level Cycle

[PsyT]

^ I'm feelin' pretty unhappy

 

[Magnum]

Because I think you continually state your opinion as fact. And your opinion isnt fact. You tried to chastise that guy that said his friend was 6'2" 240 by saying "Well here is Lee Haney at 240" when he was at 256 actually. Cmon we all knew the kid didnt mean contest ready ripped, how come you are the one guy who did? You say Lee Haney never weighed 273 in his life.....he freaking competed in 1989 at 257 pounds! What did he do walk around all year long at 265 eight pounds over his onstage weight? Who the hell walks around at 8 pounds over their stage weight all year long?

Like i said, I saw an article that said Haney was 273-278 that offseason (I cant remember what year it was...but thats what the article said)....they also announced him in the high 270's - 280at the Golds Classic. So you can continue to use the "Magnum book of facts" which I think is just one guy who by his opinion thinks anyone over 185 pounds is juicing to the gills.

Again your opinion is your opinion....and when you say "FACT: Shelby's training partner is ON!".....who the hell would know? YOU? Or Shelby? Shelby would and your fact means jack.......

Ok back to Haney....according to your calculations and I quote "In actuality Lee is roughly 240 lean in this pic with mostly added water weight and a tad bit of fat from the usual post contest bloat".....so 2 weeks after Lee's show he gained 16 pounds according to you.

Here is Lee's own words about Rimini in 1989

Lee Haney's Ultimate Bodybuilding ... - Google Books

So I guess 2 weeks after this show Lee probably gained 16 pounds again and weighed.... wow 273....geez who would have guessed.

Since you like to stick with facts let go with what we know.
Fact: the picture I posted is off Lee 2 weeks after the 1987 Olympia and he weighs 256. Clearly not offseason
Fact: You said it was an offseason pic and he weighed 273, not true and has been proven by an email from Lee Haney.

So you are wrong, period end of discussion. Now, everyone is wrong at times so what, it's no big deal. To my knowledge Lee never blew up after a show like guys do today. I'm pretty sure he got smaller and grew into a show. You need to stop believing everything that you read in the magazines.

 

[Magnum]

I'm going to test something on you.

Here's a picture of someone who swears up and down he never touched hormones. Others who also back him up are bodybuilding journalist Aaron Singerman, IFBB Pro Flex Lewis; bodybuilding expert Bob Bonham thinks he's at least clean nowadays. This guy competed in natural shows and now wrestles.

I'm an unhappy guy and call complete and utter bullshit. The guy juiced since early-mid teens and is still on a major regimen IMO.

What say you? How happy are you with yourself?

Google 'Rob Terry' if you need more pics for assessment.

You know how this will go and so do I. Since this guy claims natural status, you'll have guys saying stuff like, well maybe not natural, but probabley doesn't use much. He's just a genetic freak blah blah blah.

 

[maldorf]

You know how this will go and so do I. Since this guy claims natural status, you'll have guys saying stuff like, well maybe not natural, but probabley doesn't use much. He's just a genetic freak blah blah blah.

I used to lift with a guy trained by John Parillo. John would come into our gym to train the powerlifter for legs once a week, and I would join in with them. The guy squated around 800 lbs at a bodyweight of 240 lbs. I know for sure because I was spotting him once when his suit tore at the bottom of the squat! Anyhow, he always claimed he was natural and had never used anything.

There comes a point when common sense has to come into play.

 

[dr intensity]

hey
magnum, dante, phil,and all you great forum members,

your take on this

we know for a bodybuilder to continously build muscle has to stay on most of the time say 8 to 10 months on and 2 to 4 months off...

SCENARIO 2
the reason for upping his dosages arises comes only when he does a huge NONSTOP cycle(8 months)
1st two months uses 500mg test + anabolics THEN PLATEAUS
2nd two months uses 750mg test + anabolics THEN PLATEAUS
3rd two months uses 1500mg test + anabolics PLATEAUS AGAIN
4th two months uses 2000mg test + anabolics. PLATEAUS AGAIN

SECANRIO 2
now what if a person
does 8 weeks on and 4 weeks off

say 750 TEST E(initially longer esters and then for the last two weeks shorter ester like PROPIONATE) and 300 to 400mg deca

then 4 weeks of PCT

more or less like 8+4+8+4+8+4+8+4

now that the person is off for 4 weeks(PCT time) he can again use the same dosages ( 750mg test + 300- 400mg deca) and respond well, so the requirement for increasing the dosages gets minimized...and the person is able to enjoy gains every 8 weeks on time.

now in both the scenarios the person is on for 8 months....

now what in your opinion is the way to go .....

WOULD APPRECIATE YOUR INPUT.
THANKS

 

[maldorf]

hey
magnum, dante, phil,and all you great forum members,

your take on this

we know for a bodybuilder to continously build muscle has to stay on most of the time say 8 to 10 months on and 2 to 4 months off...

SCENARIO 2
the reason for upping his dosages arises comes only when he does a huge NONSTOP cycle(8 months)
1st two months uses 500mg test + anabolics THEN PLATEAUS
2nd two months uses 750mg test + anabolics THEN PLATEAUS
3rd two months uses 1500mg test + anabolics PLATEAUS AGAIN
4th two months uses 2000mg test + anabolics. PLATEAUS AGAIN

SECANRIO 2
now what if a person
does 8 weeks on and 4 weeks off

say 750 TEST E(initially longer esters and then for the last two weeks shorter ester like PROPIONATE) and 300 to 400mg deca

then 4 weeks of PCT

more or less like 8+4+8+4+8+4+8+4

now that the person is off for 4 weeks(PCT time) he can again use the same dosages ( 750mg test + 300- 400mg deca) and respond well, so the requirement for increasing the dosages gets minimized...and the person is able to enjoy gains every 8 weeks on time.

now in both the scenarios the person is on for 8 months....

now what in your opinion is the way to go .....

WOULD APPRECIATE YOUR INPUT.
THANKS

That problem with that plan is that the PCT isnt long enough for your body to recover from the cycle, and during that time your strength and muscle size will decrease. Over the 4 weeks I dont imagine too much ground will have been lost, so that is good. Once the person gets back on again they will find that the same dose may work for maybe one more cycle, but eventually the initial doses will have to increase. After running 2 or 3 of those cycles, maybe less, the body is going to need an even longer time to recupe since the affects are accumulating. Things like hematocrit/hemoglobin, liver enzymes, blood pressure, etc I would be concerned about. Since my heart attack I have also discovered that steroids affect the clotting casade in your blood and those effects too would compound since the body isnt given enough time being "clean".

Perhaps if the user stuck to time on = time off. Results also are going to be different for everyone of course.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

I cant give my opinion on that due to my fear you are going to cut and paste my answer on at least 2 other boards (if not 6)

(sorry bro...Im saying it tongue in cheek but youve done it too many times now)

 

[brineal]

I'm going to test something on you.

Here's a picture of someone who swears up and down he never touched hormones. Others who also back him up are bodybuilding journalist Aaron Singerman, IFBB Pro Flex Lewis; bodybuilding expert Bob Bonham thinks he's at least clean nowadays. This guy competed in natural shows and now wrestles.

I'm an unhappy guy and call complete and utter bullshit. The guy juiced since early-mid teens and is still on a major regimen IMO.

What say you? How happy are you with yourself?

Google 'Rob Terry' if you need more pics for assessment.

the real question is why you would even care?

 

[Massive G]

I'm going to test something on you.

Here's a picture of someone who swears up and down he never touched hormones. Others who also back him up are bodybuilding journalist Aaron Singerman, IFBB Pro Flex Lewis; bodybuilding expert Bob Bonham thinks he's at least clean nowadays. This guy competed in natural shows and now wrestles.

I'm an unhappy guy and call complete and utter bullshit. The guy juiced since early-mid teens and is still on a major regimen IMO.

What say you? How happy are you with yourself?

Google 'Rob Terry' if you need more pics for assessment.

the guy in the gaspari shirt on the end is probably on more shit than anyone..

 

[Massive G]

the real question is why you would even care?

I question that as well, since it's so obvious.

concerning Shelby's client he looks clean to me....

you can look at guys and tell ther clean by just the way their physques are shaped...look at Layne Norton and older pictures of Brad Castlebury..
Most of the lighter natural guys don't even look like they lift when they are in regular clothes...

 

[Massive G]

we know for a bodybuilder to continously build muscle has to stay on most of the time say 8 to 10 months on and 2 to 4 months off...

SCENARIO 2
the reason for upping his dosages arises comes only when he does a huge NONSTOP cycle(8 months)
1st two months uses 500mg test + anabolics THEN PLATEAUS
2nd two months uses 750mg test + anabolics THEN PLATEAUS
3rd two months uses 1500mg test + anabolics PLATEAUS AGAIN
4th two months uses 2000mg test + anabolics. PLATEAUS AGAIN

SECANRIO 2
now what if a person
does 8 weeks on and 4 weeks off

say 750 TEST E(initially longer esters and then for the last two weeks shorter ester like PROPIONATE) and 300 to 400mg deca

then 4 weeks of PCT

more or less like 8+4+8+4+8+4+8+4

now that the person is off for 4 weeks(PCT time) he can again use the same dosages ( 750mg test + 300- 400mg deca) and respond well, so the requirement for increasing the dosages gets minimized...and the person is able to enjoy gains every 8 weeks on time.

now in both the scenarios the person is on for 8 months....

dude your posts scare me, you have no idea how steroids work in the big picture do you?

 

[Massive G]

Haney guest posed at the 87 or 88 MD State Championship, I was back stage and he was as well -one of the nicest guys as people know he was backstage for most of the night show complimenting guys "looking good man pump it" and other encouragement...I know a freind who was videotaping it backstage...not sure if he still has the vid or if it's viewable but Haney was a moster..
There was a scale backstage and he weighed on it 281 I think. No joke.
He apologized to the audience for the lack of cuts in his thighs cause he did legs that morning...everybody laughed because he had veins and striations everywhere...he had a big frame and stayed lean he also was big on carb depletion and carbing up and water control like we all did in the 80's and 90's..

 

[dr intensity]

dude your posts scare me, you have no idea how steroids work in the big picture do you?

of course, i am not as experienced as you great people....but my point is that reason of upping the dosage is minimized with the scenario 2.

one can still use the same dosages (moderate) for atleast 3 cycles as marldorf says..... of course there will be need to increase the dosage at one point but then not at the rate at which a person would do in the scenario 1.

my idea is to learn as much as i can from you all... thats it

 

[dr intensity]

I cant give my opinion on that due to my fear you are going to cut and paste my answer on at least 2 other boards (if not 6)

(sorry bro...Im saying it tongue in cheek but youve done it too many times now)

i have already apologized for the above and i promise you that this will never happen again sir,
i`ll ask the adminstrators on the boards to delete those posts, this is only how i can undo the thing i did

 

[Massive G]

of course, i am not as experienced as you great people....but my point is that reason of upping the dosage is minimized with the scenario 2.

one can still use the same dosages (moderate) for atleast 3 cycles as marldorf says..... of course there will be need to increase the dosage at one point but then not at the rate at which a person would do in the scenario 1.

would you listen from experience?...NO.
Nobody does.
The absolute worse thing you can do is to make those kind of quantum leaps in dosages in a few short months which should take years to graduate too...realize that stacking thousands of miligrams of drugs on top of each other just clogs the system up-binding hormones, supersaturating the tissues where the only thing you get is side effects and one seriously fked up HPTA.
The biggest change in your scenario should come from diet and training.

Taking steroids is the absolute easiest thing in this whole game and people make it super pseudo rocket science. Test/deca or test/eq avoid orals and tren for the most part they give short term gains and long term damage, avoid the polypharmaceutical board stacks of AI's clen thyroid and peptides etc.
500 mgs wll give you a blood level of at least 1500ng/dl of test, and imagine what 2 grams will do? See what I am saying here?

 

[dr intensity]

would you listen from experience?...NO.
Nobody does.
The absolute worse thing you can do is to make those kind of quantum leaps in dosages in a few short months which should take years to graduate too...realize that stacking thousands of miligrams of drugs on top of each other just clogs the system up-binding hormones, supersaturating the tissues where the only thing you get is side effects and one seriously fked up HPTA.
The biggest change in your scenario should come from diet and training.

Taking steroids is the absolute easiest thing in this whole game and people make it super pseudo rocket science. Test/deca or test/eq avoid orals and tren for the most part they give short term gains and long term damage, avoid the polypharmaceutical board stacks of AI's clen thyroid and peptides etc.
500 mgs wll give you a blood level of at least 1500ng/dl of test, and imagine what 2 grams will do? See what I am saying here?

you misunderstood me,i was trying to make the same point..... that a person can gain muscle( with a lot of food and progressive training) using the same moderate dosages again and again if he does the 8+4+8+4+8+4 thing......

and with the 8+4+8+4+8+4 method, there will be less need to up the dosages....and may be increasing the dose upto 250 - 400mg every next year...

year 1 the guy uses 500mg test
year 2 then next year 750mg test
year 3 then next year 750mg test + some anabolic
year 4 1000mg test + anabolics
and so on...

and till the time he reaches 2000mg ...say at the 8th or tenth year... he will surely have a lot of muscle mass to proud of

i do understand bodybuilding is a very long journey.... and we have to be healthy in order to grow....if i start using 3000mg test + anabolics, i will get screwed up....

and the increments in dosages should only be made as when one stops growing on his previous dosage.....

 

[joshbarnett]

until you learn to eat and train you will never get really big...take all the drugs you want

 

[dr intensity]

when did i say its all about drugs.... and eating and training is not important...

i am 227 at 5 feet 8 inches, i eat this

Breakfast ;- 20eggwites + 5 yolks + 250ml milk
Niacin 1000mg, aspirin 75 mg, multivitamin + multimineral ,

Midmorning meal :- 75 grams whey + 30ml extra virginoilve oil
Prebiotic 1 cap, Fish oil pill 3000mg, Liv 52 3 single strength tabs.


Lunch ;- 500grams of chicken/ redmeat + 100grams of rice.
Fish oil pill 3000mg, Liv 52 3 single strength tabs.


Preworkout meal 75grams of whey + 50 grams of oats + 30 ml extra virgin olive oil
B-complex 1 cap + 1000mg celin

Post workout meal 75 grams whey + 75 grams of dextrose or 30ml extravirgin olive oil.
Celin 1000mg + Evion 400iu + AO-7

Dinner ;- 20eggwites + 5 yolks + 250ml milk or 350 - 400 grams of chicken and some bread
Prebiotic 1 cap


and i know how to train with progressively heavier wts.....





but at this point i am not trying to discuss my diet or training....... i am trying to get the opinion of all you people......

WHAT KIND OF DRUG CYCLE STRATEGY ONE CAN USE IN ORDER TO GAIN MUSCLE AT MODERATE DOSAGES please concerntrate on this part for now....

 

[KillerStack]

the real question is why you would even care?

I don't give a shit what anyone does. However, lots of people care about what were discussing here (why are there so many pages on this topic and so many views?). And that is what is required or not required for a certain look. These types of threads always have the most traffic. These topics are discussed on multiple boards, whenever a claim such as this one here comes up. I don't ask myself what the guy is on, I ask myself why are people such pieces of shit? And why are industry people perpetuating the lies? The thing is that it's not like they answer a question for a bb-outsider reporter or cop, they fucking volunteer the lie. It shouldn't even be discussed at this point, not on bodybuilding boards, whether this guy ever used drugs.

Here you can see an example of volunteering bullshit to the bb community by an industry insider and journalist for a "No Bull" steroid advertisement/magazine:
Jose Raymond 7 weeks out Houston Pro - Muscular Development Forums

I question that as well, since it's so obvious.

concerning Shelby's client he looks clean to me....

you can look at guys and tell ther clean by just the way their physques are shaped...look at Layne Norton and older pictures of Brad Castlebury..
Most of the lighter natural guys don't even look like they lift when they are in regular clothes...

MG, would you dare to give your opinion on guys like Chris Faildo, Kiyoshi Moody or Philip Ricardo? They are pretty light guys if they are juicers. I'm just curious when it becomes obvious to you, I have obviously already decided.

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/professional-muscle-forum/62521-philp-ricardo.html

I wonder if Dante would have questioned Castleberry's natural claim had he not admitted it in person? Maybe he would have, but on the other hand what if Castleberry had said he was now eating enough protein for the first time in his life as an explanation for the 10 extra pounds or whatever it was he held in his last show. Of course, Catleberry's confession was just a half-way confession, since he was on a lot more than he admitted. Typical bodybuilder. JMHO.

 

[Mack]

scary....

the tren alone could really do some permanent damage,then the A bombs on top of it .... wow