Need member input and help on slin problem

[Gavin Kane]

Alright, this time I need feedback and input from the members on a problem I am having with some of my clients. I have been trying to figure this one out but it is now beyond me and I am hoping someone has some insight.

Here is the situation, as you know I have my clients take insulin 2-3 times per week max. On slin days they take it 2-3 times during that day. I have them use two different types of insulin; Humulin-R and Humalog. The R is used with breakfast and lunch and the Log is used pwo only.

There is nothing abnormal about the R use, take inject and eat. Eat again within 2-3 hours. Now here is the problem. When I have my guys take the Log pwo, I have them take in a shake with glucose and whey, and then they must eat a simple meal such as fish and rice at the one hour mark for the re-peak of the Log since it can hit pretty hard.

What is happening is the my guys cannot eat at the one hour mark, they are still incredibly full, sometimes bloated from a simple shake. On non slin days, they can take the shake and eat at the one hour mark, no problem. But on slin days, they can't eat for up to 2 hours.

This only happens when we use Log, it does not happen with R. The reason we use Log is because of the 15 minute onset, one hour re-peak and fast clearance so they can get to bed without worry of hypo.

So does anyone have any theories or ideas? I was toying with the issue of cck feedback from the duodenum as a fullness trigger due to glucagon release but nothing has panned out.

Please help me.

 

[knucklehed]

glucose and whey

I assume you mean dextrose and whey post workout. Dex has the same affect on me. try changing the post workout shake to waxy maize and whey. The next meal will clear much quicker. This has been my experience
kh

 

[Gavin Kane]

No it is actually glucose that I order in bulk and supply to my guys. As for trying the waxy maize, I would be willing to try it. Can you give me some more feedback?

 

[Robbo21]

I had the exact same problem as you, whenever myself an others i was training used novarapid post workout and had a shake containing glucose and whey(dextrose is glucose im pretty sure, just its the d-glucose isomer thats biologically active).I dont think problem is a complex i you think or i first thought, i read in a journal i think from by the melbourne institute of sport science investigating carbohydrate clearance times from the stomach, that it is something to do with the high osmolality of the solution that glucose and other simple sugars form in the stomach, that causes bloating and a satiated(sp? full) feeling when larger amounts are taken in post exercise. As knucklehead said waxy maize/ vitargo solves the problem, it did for myself and people i was helping and it was also in the journal that its clearance was something like 60% fast when compared to glucose. Its because WM is a high molecular weight polysacchride,has a much low osmolality and passes through the stomach much quicker and inot the intestines where ist lower osmolality aslo aids in its uptake into the blood stream. The best way i have found to take is pwo is have waxy maize on its own first with amino acids(10g leucine, 5-10 BCAA's anymore seems to slow its clearance down) and have the whey isolate 10-15 later. Whenever i combined the two or had larger amount of amino's/creatine i felt fuller for longer and that the WM wasnt passing through as quick. Myself and otheres didnt have a problem then consuming our second then meal an hour later when they followed what i said above

Hope this helps and makes sense as i had to rush this a bit as i have a lecture to get to. Ill dig up that article and either post it here or pm you the link.

Robbo

 

[Gavin Kane]

Excellent info Robbo. I would love to see that article when you have time. Thank you so much.

 

[Big A]

Glucose bloats like hell. Switch to maltodextrin.

 

[Fullybuilt]

Glucose bloats like hell. Switch to maltodextrin.

Is malto fast enough to use for your post insulin carb

 

[TeamZ]

I use the WM first, 30-40 grms PWO and the 15 minutes later use maltodextrin 30grms with 50 grms of whey, then a meal of chicken and oats 1 to 1 1/2 hours later seems to work fine for me!

 

[supermannpc]

i had the same problem when i was using malto and dextrose
i switched to WM and its a little easier to get the food down
sometimes i do have to wait a while

 

[bgmke7]

so the guys are only getting bloated after their log dose.......are they going hypo from not being able to eat an hour after the log shot??? also are these log days around heavy lifting days.my meaning is that sometimes i cant eat alot right after different days in the gym(i.e. legs-back) and if they arent going hypo then i dont see a problem(i do just not a big one).
later

 

[Gavin Kane]

so the guys are only getting bloated after their log dose.......are they going hypo from not being able to eat an hour after the log shot??? also are these log days around heavy lifting days.my meaning is that sometimes i cant eat alot right after different days in the gym(i.e. legs-back) and if they arent going hypo then i dont see a problem(i do just not a big one).
later

Yes, it is only with log, not R. I do only have them use it 2x per week, 3x for advanced pro's and yes, it is always on back or leg day. I know I can't eat much after legs either but not sure if that is fully the cause.

They are not going hypo but showing some early signs at the one hour mark such as sweating, shaky, etc.

 

[lookingforanedge]

Yes, it is only with log, not R. I do only have them use it 2x per week, 3x for advanced pro's and yes, it is always on back or leg day. I know I can't eat much after legs either but not sure if that is fully the cause.

They are not going hypo but showing some early signs at the one hour mark such as sweating, shaky, etc.

GK,

Did you ever have luck changing the carb source etc?

 

[TooPowerful4u]

Look for a thread in the open forum i started a few months ago. I had the same problem and KM came up with a pretty good solution.

 

[Nat]

Gavin I really like what Robbo wrote, he is spot on. I thought I would try to give you my two cents for all the help you been to me...

My situation is a little different because I use Humilin R post workout (it works for me). But like everybody says Waxy Maize is through the system so fast that you are able to eat again in about a half hour. One important note: do not add Isolate or whey protein to the Waxy Maize it will significantly slow down absortion. What I have been doing is taking about 80grms of waxy maize with BCAA/Glutamine/CEE all for about 30grms and no more. This seems to pass through the gut within no more than half hour. I tried whey isolate with waxy maize and it took about two hours to pass. A half hour after my waxy maize shake I eat 1 cup of oatmeal with raisins and then drink a 5ogrm Isolate protein shake (make sure you eat the oatmeal first because the shake goes down alot easier, if you do the shake first it may make you full and it is harder to eat the oatmeal. Just my thoughts. I hope it helps...

 

[lookingforanedge]

Gavin I really like what Robbo wrote, he is spot on. I thought I would try to give you my two cents for all the help you been to me...

My situation is a little different because I use Humilin R post workout (it works for me). But like everybody says Waxy Maize is through the system so fast that you are able to eat again in about a half hour. One important note: do not add Isolate or whey protein to the Waxy Maize it will significantly slow down absortion. What I have been doing is taking about 80grms of waxy maize with BCAA/Glutamine/CEE all for about 30grms and no more. This seems to pass through the gut within no more than half hour. I tried whey isolate with waxy maize and it took about two hours to pass. A half hour after my waxy maize shake I eat 1 cup of oatmeal with raisins and then drink a 5ogrm Isolate protein shake (make sure you eat the oatmeal first because the shake goes down alot easier, if you do the shake first it may make you full and it is harder to eat the oatmeal. Just my thoughts. I hope it helps...

How long have you been taking the BCAA/Glutamine/CEE (what is this BTW) for?

Have you noticed good results?