Need some advice on my stepson

[RBB]

I see a lot of good advice given in here on a daily basis, and I'm hoping you guys can send some words of wisdom my way as I'm having a very tough time with a situation I'm in.

Here's the scenario. I'm engaged to a great girl, we're getting married in April. She has 4 kids from a previous marriage of 12 years. Three of them are living with us now. They moved here last January at a considerable expense to myself. Bought a nice big house, furnished it, the whole deal. I was living the typical bachelor lifestyle and was very comfortable, financially and otherwise. I have a very good, nice paying job. My fiance doesn't. She's finishing up college at the moment(never had a chance raising all the kids when she was younger). She isn't able to help out much financially, so I foot the bill for pretty much everything except groceries. So, as you can see, I'm making a lot of compromises for her right now so she can have her kids with her.

Three of her four kids are really good kids. I get along great with her oldest son and her two daughters. The problem is with her younger, 9 year old son. I can't stand the kid!! He is ADD (what kid isn't these days?). I'm not even going to get on the subject of the validity of this "condition", as it seems to be a convient catch all excuse for a lot of shitty/bratty behavior, imo. 90% of the time, the kid is a nightmare to be around. He is constantly whining, arguing (with us or with the other kids), hitting his sister, asking for material possessions (the sense of entitlement is ridiculous). You guys know the type I'm sure....you ask him to do something and the minute you turn around he's doing exactly the opposite of what you just asked him.

Then there's the destruction of property. Constantly making a mess and not even bothering to try to clean up anything or let anyone know there is a mess that needs to be cleaned up. Food all over the kitchen floor (on purpose)....these are much to large and consistent to be accidents. Drawing on the walls, finding a knife and cutting on a table. A couple months ago he egged our own garage. Last week he took a shit in a pair of shorts and stuck them in the laundry (on purpose, again)....they got washed with all the clothes. Half the time he uses the bathroom he dumps half a roll of toilet paper in the toilet, clogging up the toilets around the house. These are just a few examples. I could go on forever, but you guys would get sick of reading and I'd definitely be sick of typing. This kind of shit from him is constant, though.

Nothing seems to discourage this behavior for any appreciable amount of time with this kid. We are constantly talking to him about it, trying to teach him to no avail. He has had virtually all privileges taken from him (ps3, tv, etc.). I can kick his ass....I've given him some major ass beatings and this only works temporarily. He knows he can't push it very far when I'm around and that he is on thin ice with me, but I am not always at home. He seems to forget....out of sight, out of mind I suppose. This greatly discourages him from pulling his stupid stunts, however, he is still unbearable to be around behavior wise (whining, etc.).

I am at the point now where I don't want anything to do with this kid. I will still discipline him when I need to, which is much too frequent, but other than that, I'm done. I have tried to be a dad to him, show him things, how to carry himself with respect....how to treat others, but I am about at the end of my rope here. He disgusts me, and I have virtually no respect for him as a human being. Yeah, I know that may sound harsh, he's only 9 years old, but that is how I feel. I feel like I have really gone out of my way for his Mom and the rest of them and he is, by his actions, spitting in my face as well as every other member of the household (he is a constant disruption to everbody). I am making considerable compromises with my lifestyle, and for what? To be disrespected by some brat? This does not sit well with me at all. I told my fiance exactly this a couple weeks ago as she had been sensing these feelings from me.

This, of course, greatly upset her, but by her own admission, she said "I really can't even blame you". He is horrible, and she knows it. She is not one of those mom's who refuses to see her kids for what they really are. Believe me, she tries her best with this kid, as have I, but nothing seems to stick. As you can imagine, this whole situation has been placing considerable strain on our relationship. She told me last night, "I feel like I've lost something for you over this thing with my son. I still love you very much, but it hurts me so bad that you can't stand him."

I don't know where to go from here, guys. I believe my feelings for him are justified and I am standing my ground. I feel the way I feel, and there are considerable reasons for it....it's not changing and I'm not faking it. The way I see it, I have a few options:

1) Send him back to his Dad's. By all accounts, his dad is a pretty good guy, but I don't even know if this is an option. The reason he is here in the first place is because his Dad wanted him gone. He had been living with him and his new wife for the last 3 years and his new wife had enough of him. From what I understand, it was a either he goes or I go type of situation. Sounds familiary, right?

2) Go about my business and have nothing to do with this kid. Despite his my fiance understanding my feelings on this, it greatly hurts her. He is her boy after all. I don't feel like this is a viable option. In the end, things between her and I will not work out and this will be catalyst. I feel that it has already driven a huge wedge between us.

3) Count my losses and end things with my fiance. It would be a real shame for this to happen. I really do love her, and kids are not going to be around forever. However, I have no tolerance left for his bullshit behavior. Make all the excuses you want for him, but it's just not cutting it.

This post turned out a little longer than I wanted it to be, but I needed to fully explain everything. This is a really tough situation for me and I hope some of you guys, especially dads or stepdads, can give me some good advice/insight. It will be much appreciated.

 

[BigDaddy_554]

Another Option

Have you considered Military School for this kid? Or a shrink? I have a stepson that had/has some similar issues. He will be 21 later this year and is currently attending a local college. Even today I continue to have to tolerate some of his BS, but it is far less. I found through strict structure and dicipline eventually he learned to do certain things less. Don't get me wrong he still does not turely understand the reason behind the rules in most cases. I feel you and we seriously considered this for my stepson as I believe being held accountable for all of his actions whether by authority figures or by peers eventually they have to learn to stop certain behaviors. Again, you may not be able to "fix" him so that he "gets it". We also had my stepson attend a shrink and at times we would attend with him to give our perspective as well as recieve advice. It has not been easy, but if you love this women like I do my wife it is all worth it. In the end it is you and her. So long as you both see this thing alike you should work to come up with a solution together.

I am curious as to if this behavior occurs at school and what kind of student is he? Does he show any interest in sports or is he very interverted?

My stepson would not consider any sports and only cared to be on his computer. This proved to be a way to leverage punishment without constant spankngs. Overall a good student though.

 

[BOOMSHAKER]

Has the 9 year old ever been diagnosed with anything?

Have you and the fiance sought out any professional help?

Have you, the fiance and the kids father all sat down together with the kid to see what's the problem?

Does the kid act the same way in school or just when he is home?

What do his brothers and sisters have to say about his behavior?

There is a lot you have left out my friend. But taking in a mom and 4 kids does not come cheap or without problems. IF you get along with her other 3 kids and have problems with one. I wouldn't say end the relationship. I would say something is making this kid act out and you need to find out what that is. Chances are he is taking mom and dads divorce or break up the hardest. You certainly cant beat this type of mental stress out of the kid. To me it sounds like you're almost 90% a family. You just need the other 10% to make a better fit. Try and find out how to do that and all of your hard work will pay off. Good luck to you brother.

 

[RBB]

Have you considered Military School for this kid? Or a shrink? I have a stepson that had/has some similar issues. He will be 21 later this year and is currently attending a local college. Even today I continue to have to tolerate some of his BS, but it is far less. I found through strict structure and dicipline eventually he learned to do certain things less. Don't get me wrong he still does not turely understand the reason behind the rules in most cases. I feel you and we seriously considered this for my stepson as I believe being held accountable for all of his actions whether by authority figures or by peers eventually they have to learn to stop certain behaviors. Again, you may not be able to "fix" him so that he "gets it". We also had my stepson attend a shrink and at times we would attend with him to give our perspective as well as recieve advice. It has not been easy, but if you love this women like I do my wife it is all worth it. In the end it is you and her. So long as you both see this thing alike you should work to come up with a solution together.

I am curious as to if this behavior occurs at school and what kind of student is he? Does he show any interest in sports or is he very interverted?

My stepson would not consider any sports and only cared to be on his computer. This proved to be a way to leverage punishment without constant spankngs. Overall a good student though.

BigDaddy, thanks for the reponse. It seems like you've been in a very similar situation. I understand what you're saying. It's just like this kid doesn't "get it". He has no concept of personal responsibility or discipline. I'm not expecting perfection, either. Far from it, but his behavior is way too over the top.

We actually have made his first appointment with a shrink, it's set up in a couple weeks from now....earliest we could get him in. It is funny you mentioned military school. His mother and I were discussing just that not long ago. She feels like he is too young at the moment. Also, she is not able to afford the cost. She would have to get his Dad signed on for that and I don't know if he would be agreeable. If it came down to us sending the kid back to him then I have a feeling he would be! It is an option we have on the table, just not at the moment.

Yes, this behavior seems to be even worse at school. He is constantly in trouble. His teachers devised a special behavior report card that he gets sent home with him everyday and has to have signed by one of us within three weeks of him starting school here. He doesn't seem to be too interested in sports or anything that involves some sort of structure. He sounds a lot like your stepson in that all he wants to do is play PS3. Needless to say he is without that now, as he gets almost psychotic over playing it all the time.

Has the 9 year old ever been diagnosed with anything?

Have you and the fiance sought out any professional help?

Have you, the fiance and the kids father all sat down together with the kid to see what's the problem?

Does the kid act the same way in school or just when he is home?

What do his brothers and sisters have to say about his behavior?

There is a lot you have left out my friend. But taking in a mom and 4 kids does not come cheap or without problems. IF you get along with her other 3 kids and have problems with one. I wouldn't say end the relationship. I would say something is making this kid act out and you need to find out what that is. Chances are he is taking mom and dads divorce or break up the hardest. You certainly cant beat this type of mental stress out of the kid. To me it sounds like you're almost 90% a family. You just need the other 10% to make a better fit. Try and find out how to do that and all of your hard work will pay off. Good luck to you brother.

Boom, I'll try to answer your questions here brother....

He has been diagnosed with ADHD. He was first diagnosed with autism, but that was thrown out and it went back to ADHD. That was about 4 years ago. He is currently taking Concerta to help with that.

He has had professional help here and there. He sees a pediatrician to check the dosage of his meds, etc. We have rescheduled him in a couple of weeks for not only that, but to be re-evaluated. Also, the same week we got him his first appointment with a professional therapist/counselor that his pediatrician recommended. We are trying to find him some help in this area.

We have sat down with him and tried to talk through this behavior many, many times. We can't figure it out, and talking to him doesn't do much good. He has a very difficult time communicating. Much of what he says when he's forced to expand on situations or explain behavior makes little to no sense at all. He sort of babbles like a much younger child much of the time. The odd thing is, this summer he was pretty good. As soon as school started again, he's back to the same old routine. It's like he doesn't know how to handle any sort of structure at all. Although, I don't see how that would have such a large effect on his behavior at the house.

As I mentioned earlier, he acts the same if not worse in school. His grades are horrible. Getting a D is a good day for him. He is in 3rd grade, has already been held back once, but probably reads on a 1st grade level at best. He's nearly illiterate. His teachers, I hate to say, can't stand him, which doesn't help. According to them, he is just a huge distraction to the class. He now has an aid that sits beside him in the class every second of the day to try to keep him on task.

No one is happy with his behavior, including his brothers and sisters. His 11 year old sister, in particular, can't stand to be around him. She is at the point where she pretty much avoids him at this point. For some reason he is always fighting with her when they are sharing the same space. Arguing, whining and often times hitting/kicking. He has stopped the hitting lately as he has learned that earns him an instant spanking with a belt from me, no questions asked.

Believe me, I fully knew coming into this thing that taking my fiance in with the kids wouldn't come without problems. I also knew that it wouldn't be cheap. I wasn't bitching about the money, I fully understood this is how it would be....nobody forced me into anything. I was just trying to relate how this was effecting my feelings about this kid. I feel like I have given up a lot, made a lot of compromises to take care of things that really aren't my responsibility, and the truth is, I have. So, when some kid comes into my house and acts like this on top of it, it becomes a little too much for me to swallow. I have tried to be patient and be tolerant, but I'm pretty much worn out in these two areas.

I know the kid can act decent, but it's like he just chooses not to. He's absolutely fine when he's doing something which he deems to be "fun" or "not boring". When he's not doing one of those things (playstation, watching tv), his behavior is horrible. He needs to learn that in life you cannot always do what is fun. Like I said, he has no concept of personal responsibility or discipline. I'm sure a hard ass military school would be a great option for him. If it was up to me, I would send him off to one in a heartbeat. There is a noticeable difference in his behavior when I am around, because he knows I will not put up with his shit and he is scared of the consequences. Most of the time now, I can just shoot him a look and he will stop in his tracks. However, I am not home for large portions of the day with work, gym, etc. At a military school he would get this sort of attention 24/7 and there would be no tolerance for his excuses and poor behavior. IMO, that's what he needs, someone on his ass all day long.

Bottomline, in my mind, if you act like a piece of trash then you will be treated like one and/or thrown out with the rest of the garbage. And he has shown that to be his true character time and time again. It's an extremely frustrating situation.

 

[BOOMSHAKER]

RBB, i still say KUDOS to you for taking such a huge step from bachelor to engaged and extended family. I pray it all gets better for you brother.

 

[driven]

x2 on military school - I feel for you bro - I got frustrated just reading the shit you put up with. You are a truly noble guy to bring in the family and take care of them as your own. Get him out of there before shit gets out of control - you've done too much with your life to get caught up in a LE situation - and unfortunately physical discipline is frowned upon by the fucking government who's already too involved in how we live our lives.

Good Luck

 

[BigDaddy_554]

After reading more of the details I think you are doing the right thing by having him evaluated again. We did this with my stepson and it was the an elaborate test that took like half to nearly a full day. The more I read the more I don't believe it is an issue over his parents divorce given it has been years and he treats his father the same. He very well have have an undiagnosed disorder. I hope for you it is not conduct disorder. If after the evaluation they stick with only ADHD my suggestion of military school stand.

 

[Goody]

Wow. Hats off to you for dealing with all that. Im in education and work with kids like that daily..it aint always easy...I find that they do respond to a very structured, disiplined approach. Many of these kids have been enabled somewhat by their "disorder"...its tough
Not to be a downer but have you thought about a pre-nup? If she changes over time or things dont work out she could really stick it to you financially...because she is so financially dependent on you now...I had no idea how much women could get from you until AFTER I got married...
Again not trying to be a dick..I admire what your doing with those kids...

 

[Amazon Doll]

I would cut my losses.

 

[oldfella]

I can see your point bro. But I think one thing needs to be kept out there for you to consider. He is still only 9 years old and possibly mentally about 5! He throws tantrums when he does not get his way? Well didn't you? Yes his tantrums are extreme in actions and his behaviour more extreme than most, but this is the nature of mental disorders. I am in no way defending his actions quite the contrary, there needs to be simple and definitive reward and consequence type behaviour strategies here. Do remember, he is only a child and a product of a broken family environment, throw in a little mental instability and well you see the results! He needs to be treated with empathy, understanding, and a firm hand as well. He might respond well to clear boundaries and routine. If the school he is in is not cutting the mustard maybe it is time to look at a school for special needs children. Sure they do things differently there but that is the point, he is different. Hell I currently work with a 19 year old kid with aspergers, he can be a real handful at times and the disrespect I cop sometimes is over the top. Sure one of my reactions is to give him a backhand and set him on his ass, but sanity prevails and this is not the solution. I have set boundaries with him. We have both sat down and I let him choose the consequences for his poor behaviour, ie "what type of reward do YOU think YOU deserve for this type of poor behaviour"? Or "why should I reward YOUR poor behviour by giving you what YOU want"? Yes again I will revert to the childs age, but if you start early and practice this then it becomes conditioned behaviour, just like training a puppy to pee outside. It takes a lot of time and patience, but it can pay dividends. It has taken me 6 months to turn this kid's attitude and thought processes around and he is doing really well now. I think one of the big factors you will find is some resentment that YOU are not his father and he knows this. But this can also work in your favor. Boundaries, kids recognize these pretty quickly, use them! Yes professional help is a wise move, but not your only option. Try not to give up on the little fella, his dad probably did, so you will just be another one that has "givin up on him". Patience and persistance, two powerful tools in dealing with mental health issues.

 

[RBB]

After reading more of the details I think you are doing the right thing by having him evaluated again. We did this with my stepson and it was the an elaborate test that took like half to nearly a full day. The more I read the more I don't believe it is an issue over his parents divorce given it has been years and he treats his father the same. He very well have have an undiagnosed disorder. I hope for you it is not conduct disorder. If after the evaluation they stick with only ADHD my suggestion of military school stand.

Yes, from what I understand the testing they will be giving him in a few weeks is quite elaborate. They're checking for everything, as his behavior is not getting better, only worse. Especially at his age....it is just flat out unacceptable. We have read about conduct disorder. He seems to have most if not all of those symptoms. I told my fiance last night, I will give the kid 2 or 3 more years to straighten himself out. I'm not expecting perfection. Just decent behavior, and acting like a positive, contributing member of the household. If he's not improving by the time he's 12-13 he will not be welcome in my house anymore. Military school, going back to his Dad's, whatever....it won't matter to me, he will not be my problem at that point. I think that is more than fair for everyone.

 

[RBB]

x2 on military school - I feel for you bro - I got frustrated just reading the shit you put up with. You are a truly noble guy to bring in the family and take care of them as your own. Get him out of there before shit gets out of control - you've done too much with your life to get caught up in a LE situation - and unfortunately physical discipline is frowned upon by the fucking government who's already too involved in how we live our lives.

Good Luck

I agree with you, Driven. Military school is exactly what this kid needs. He needs the kind of 24/7 discipline that I am not capable of providing to him at this point. It would be a full time job. It isn't an option at the moment, but it is on the table for the future.

Wow. Hats off to you for dealing with all that. Im in education and work with kids like that daily..it aint always easy...I find that they do respond to a very structured, disiplined approach. Many of these kids have been enabled somewhat by their "disorder"...its tough
Not to be a downer but have you thought about a pre-nup? If she changes over time or things dont work out she could really stick it to you financially...because she is so financially dependent on you now...I had no idea how much women could get from you until AFTER I got married...
Again not trying to be a dick..I admire what your doing with those kids...

I agree that the disorders are an enabler. It becomes a convient excuse for everything. I know some of the things he does, he truly cannot help and vice versa. Spur of the moment things where he just does something based on a reaction I give him somewhat of a pass. I correct him and try to show him he needs to think before he reacts. Other things that he does....deliberate, planned out actions do not get a pass. For instance, he tried to tell me that egging the garage was "an accident". I explained what an accident truly is to him and he got himself quite an ass kicking for that one.

Yes, a prenup will be in place before the wedding. I have already thought about that, and that is good advice.

 

[RBB]

I can see your point bro. But I think one thing needs to be kept out there for you to consider. He is still only 9 years old and possibly mentally about 5! He throws tantrums when he does not get his way? Well didn't you? Yes his tantrums are extreme in actions and his behaviour more extreme than most, but this is the nature of mental disorders. I am in no way defending his actions quite the contrary, there needs to be simple and definitive reward and consequence type behaviour strategies here. Do remember, he is only a child and a product of a broken family environment, throw in a little mental instability and well you see the results! He needs to be treated with empathy, understanding, and a firm hand as well. He might respond well to clear boundaries and routine. If the school he is in is not cutting the mustard maybe it is time to look at a school for special needs children. Sure they do things differently there but that is the point, he is different. Hell I currently work with a 19 year old kid with aspergers, he can be a real handful at times and the disrespect I cop sometimes is over the top. Sure one of my reactions is to give him a backhand and set him on his ass, but sanity prevails and this is not the solution. I have set boundaries with him. We have both sat down and I let him choose the consequences for his poor behaviour, ie "what type of reward do YOU think YOU deserve for this type of poor behaviour"? Or "why should I reward YOUR poor behviour by giving you what YOU want"? Yes again I will revert to the childs age, but if you start early and practice this then it becomes conditioned behaviour, just like training a puppy to pee outside. It takes a lot of time and patience, but it can pay dividends. It has taken me 6 months to turn this kid's attitude and thought processes around and he is doing really well now. I think one of the big factors you will find is some resentment that YOU are not his father and he knows this. But this can also work in your favor. Boundaries, kids recognize these pretty quickly, use them! Yes professional help is a wise move, but not your only option. Try not to give up on the little fella, his dad probably did, so you will just be another one that has "givin up on him". Patience and persistance, two powerful tools in dealing with mental health issues.

Oldfella, thanks for the advice, brother. I really respect what you're doing with that kid. I feel it is a lot more difficult, however, when you have to live with someone on a day to day basis who shows little to no respect for anyone in the household. Believe me, the boundaries are set at our house and he definitely knows what they are. He just chooses to ignore them much of the time when I'm not around. He is aware of the consequences for his poor behavior as well. The thing that amazes me is that the consequences never seem to deter him much. You would think that constantly losing the privileges you love the most and being physically punished on top of it would condition someone to behave themselves, right? Not with this guy....time and time again, it is truly incredible. Sure, after he is punished he might be good for a few hours, maybe even the rest of the day, but then he is right back at it. The impulsiveness with this kid is unbelievably high. I fully believe that he does not think for one second before he does anything. We have repeatedly drilled this into his head, you must think before you act....it is a constant talk we're having with him with little to no effect.

I think at this point, we have done/are doing all that we can at home. And don't even get me started with his issues at school. When you are 9 years old and virtually illiterate there are some big problems going on. He is soon going to fall so far behind there that catching up is not possible. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. It's like he just doesn't "get it". I believe that professional help truly is our only option. There has got to be much more wrong with him than ADHD, or he simply isn't getting the proper treatment/medication for his ADHD. I believe it is a combination of both. We will see in a couple weeks here what the problem is.

I truly appreciate all you guys taking the time to respond here. It definitely helps to have a place to vent and blow off some of this steam. It seems like I'm not the only one who has dealt with these issues before and all advice/opinions are welcome.

 

[tenny]

convince her to send his ass off to military reform school
she must sign away her right to him i think???

sounds like its probley the best thing for him

he'll come out of there a respectful man

AND HE'LL THANK YOU FOR IT!!!

 

[RBB]

convince her to send his ass off to military reform school
she must sign away her right to him i think???

sounds like its probley the best thing for him

he'll come out of there a respectful man

AND HE'LL THANK YOU FOR IT!!!

I'm not sure how that works, tenny. I agree, it would be the best thing for him. His mom absolutely won't go for it, though, at the moment. I agreed to give him a couple of years here. My fiance thought that was a fair deal, she is happy with that. If he hasn't shaped up by the time he's 12 or so then he's gone. Military school, or back to his dad's....doesn't matter to me, he will be out of my hair. Although, in my mind, military school would be the only good option for him to get his life on track at that point. He would learn discipline there, no doubt. He will not make it very far in life acting like the complete fuck up that he is now, that much is certain.

 

[ICU11b]

I cant imagine this is easy for him either. His behavior must bring him a lot of unwanted negative attention. No kid would purposely bring that upon themselves. You know how mean kids can be. Imagine what this little guy goes through in a day at school. Must be very stressful for all those involved, but you cant just give up on the kid....

 

[RBB]

I cant imagine this is easy for him either. His behavior must bring him a lot of unwanted negative attention. No kid would purposely bring that upon themselves. You know how mean kids can be. Imagine what this little guy goes through in a day at school. Must be very stressful for all those involved, but you cant just give up on the kid....

Yes, he gets a ton of negative attention, but should I feel sorry for him? Depending on the situation, I might. He does, however, bring it all on himself. At what age is it appropriate to expect someone to show some accountability for their own actions? His mother is more understanding than others, I try with him. However, the rest of the world will not care what his "problems" are. He will be expected to act like a decent human being....this is a fact and he needs to learn it. He will have to learn self discipline and control.

I am not giving up on him. I will do my part and do everything I can to help him, but ultimately he is not my responsibility. I am not going to help someone who does not try to help themself. He will need to show me that he is making some sort of effort or he will not be welcome in my house.

 

[MonkeyBoy]

RBB,
I don't have kids or ever been in your situation so I really have nothing to say on that aspect but I gotta say, it takes a good man to bring in a family and take care of them finacially like you have, that alone gets some points in my book!!!

Good luck with everything.

 

[richiec]

RBB,

It seems as tho this kid is starving for attention. He is seeking it through acting like a little shit. His parents divorce might have affected him much differently than the older kids, and this is how he knows how to get attention. He might equate attention to love. Childrens brains are very odd in what they can fathom. I was diagnosed with ADHD, I just never wanted to sit still. Seeing a shrink is the best option, get some of the problem he's having on the table. I know you said you discipline him, what about mom? Have you and mom ignored him when he acts like a little shit?

 

[ICU11b]

Nobody, I repeat nobody would put themselves through the situations this child must find himself in daily. You wouldnt be mad at someone w/ cancer or another disease they didnt choose to be inflicted w/ would you? So, if it mental/emotional/chem. imbalance is the father or some other institution going to help...? Of course not. Imagine how he feels everybody giving up on him, passing him around, accepting him because they have to... Is going to gym ever easy or more difficult every time you load the bar. Have you given up on it? We make our bodies sore for days, vomit, tear muscle/ligature... Have you given up on that. Dont give up on a child.