Neurotransmitters all messed up.

[rj2012]

Hey everybody how's it goin? I'm posting because I've been having some long term problems getting my hormones straightened out after running 4 cycles awhile ago. I haven't ran any cycles or pct since June 2011. I've been workin with a naturopath to try getting myself back on track but nothing is helping. I'll list my symptoms and some test results. I'm really just hoping for some insight, this is pretty complicated stuff, if im lucky somebody else on here will have had similar problems.

So for a year and a half I've been totally foggy brained, trouble concentrating, low energy, low motivation for anything, including the gym. I haven't been losing or gaining weight, so thats sort of good. Im going to school for computer science so this fogginess is really starting to get me down and I'm starting to worry that Im stuck like this. It's no way to be, I hate it. Oh and my sex drive isn't what it used to be before steroids either, but its been gradually getting better over the past year and half. Anyhow, on to the test results, from two weeks ago.

Hormones --Levels----Normal Range

Saliva Test

Serotonin---------126.1--------99-203
GABA -------------3.6----------3.9-7.9 Low
Glycine------------2500--------441-1258 Very High
Glutamate---------30.7--------13.5-36.8
Histamine----------3637--------10-32 High
PEA---------------45-----------29383
Dopamine- --------140---------106-191
Norepinephrine-----35.8--------28-51
Epinephrine--------4.3----------7.1-13.6 Extremely low

Blood Test

Vitamin D-------66--------30-100
DHEA SULFATE---447-----110-510 towards the upper end

Seperate Saliva Test

Cortisol
morning-----8.9-----7-10
midday------5.8-----3-6
evening-----4.9-----2-4 high
night--------3.2----less then 1.5 = mine is high

DHEA-----975-----63-644 High

24 Hour Urine Test

Estrone(E1)------------3.7---------- 3-12 ug/24hr
Estradiol(E2)-----------1.2-----------0-7 " "
Estriol(E3)-------------1.3------------1-16
Total Estrogens-------- 6.3-----------4-22
Testosterone-----------46------------45-85
Dihydrotest..------------4 ------------0-13
Androstanediol---------104------------48-578
Androstenedione--------7-------------------
DHEA------------------8726----------5-1476 high
Androstenetriol --------1184---------42-710 high
Androsterone----------6598---------798-4705 high
11b-OH-Androsterone -1216---------461-1692
Etiocholanalone--------4162---------689-3252 high
11b-OH-Etiocholane----580--------134-1186
Progesterone NONE DETECTED - not normally detected in urine
Pregnanediol ----------787----------23-501 High
5-Pregnenetriol--------1747---------28-1062 High
Cortisone--------------310----------92-366
THE------------------ 6183--------1365-5788 High
THB-------------------432-----------32-238 High
5aTHB-----------------796----------135-588 High
Cortisol----------------118-----------35-168
THF------------------2559----------942-2800
5a-THF---------------2901----------796-2456 High
THA-------------------861-----------52-277 High

I know this is a lot of stuff to post, and probably just a shot in the dark, but I'm hoping to get lucky. If you've got any ideas about these results and my symptoms please let me know.
So far the doc and I have tried to restore my adrenals with tinctures of different ginsengs and withanias; doesn't work. I think it's adrenal fatigue...but we tried to treat me for candida in case that was the problem(possible from symptoms), I've tried months of accupuncture to strengthen my adrenals but it didn't help. We tested for possible insulin resistance/diabetes, but I tested fine. Hes thinkin that the skewed hormones are still "just from the steroids and will probably resolve themselves in time". So now hes just giving me b-vitamins shots once a week to try lowering the glycine, and a naturtal MAO inhibitor to try getting the epinephrine up, and a natural adrenal boosting tincture...oh and time.
I've stayed away from regular MDs because Ive been trying to stay natural, because the hormones are what messed me up in the first place. I wanted to try this board out before I got a second opinion, as everyone on here has always been real nice. Sorry this has been such a long post. And I wanna say thanks in advance to anyone who actually read this and felt like helping. Thanks a lot!

 

[Stewie]

You may have better success asking here Definitive Mind - Forum - Powered by vBulletin

Or

Dr. Kruse is a Neuro Surgeon
BRAIN GUT 16: ADRENAL FATIGUE Rx | Living an Optimized Life

 

[smackthatAAS]

You got a PM.

 

[NYCjuice]

what did you run each cycle and what did you use to come off?

 

[rj2012]

Thanks a lot guys.

 

[rj2012]

I did a few cycles with 500-800 of test per week with 400-600 equipoise a week. would do this about 8 weeks, then pct would start about 10 days after test, equipoise would stop a week before test. Did the standard clomid pct's. Didn't like clomid and had better luck with toremefine. Torem got my test levels back up to 850 for awhile. I don't think it was an issue with the pcts... I think that between the ancillaries (clomid, pct, and the prohormones) my neurotransmitters got wrecked.

 

[sazo75]

So what is the main problem with what your going through ? I mean I know you listed a few things but if you were to list in order and perhaps go into further detail of your complications it might be easier to udnerstand and help you out.

 

[Simpllyhuge]

You may have better success asking here Definitive Mind - Forum - Powered by vBulletin

Or

Dr. Kruse is a Neuro Surgeon
BRAIN GUT 16: ADRENAL FATIGUE Rx | Living an Optimized Life

Good post man, dr kruse is the one who writes on ways to fix lepetin correct? I will have to read that one later.

 

[big ronster]

First, those salivary nt tests are not that accurate, and even if they were, only would tell part of the picture. A lot of nt effects come from local release, storage, reuptake, etc, not just whats flowing at the time. DA is released in response to pleasure, etc.

Some supps that may help are a coenzymated b-complex, KAL brand NADH for dopamine, NOW brand oregano oil for dopamine as well, 3g vit c a day for cortisol. Ur obvsly on vit d, prob dhea according to ur test, id stay on those.

U didnt take any propecia, proscar, or finasteride/dutasteride did u?

 

[rj2012]

You know whats really wierd is I'm NOT on DHEA, so we can't figure why it's so damn high. Pretty wierd. I haven't taken any propecia or finastride. I am taking vitamin D but I wasn't at the time of this test. I've been taking oregano oil pretty consistently for awhile. Thx for the idea about the enzymatic b complexes, I will give that a try. The Doc is already giving me b-injections, i don't know if thats the same or not..

You mentioned taking some things for dopamine and cortisol, but those levels are pretty normal in me. I'm having crazy high DHEA and Glycine coupled by extremely low adrenaline which. My problem is that I'm just extremely tired and foggy minded all the time, I can't shake it. I know it doesn't sound that bad but if you know what its like to only get two hours of sleep one night and then go about your day, thats how I feel after a full nights sleep, every day.

 

[dbol401]

Damn your histamine is way high. Glycine is an NDMA antagonist? It is calming. Do you have the wired but tired feeling? I would test igf-1/gh levels and supplement with gaba. You are just tired? Any other symptoms?

 

[sean70ss]

test

tyrosine
sam-e
5-htp
bacopa

look up nootropics

 

[KillerStack]

Does the saliva neurotransmitter levels correlate well with what's happening in the brain? Although I haven't looked at it something tells me it's not that simple.

 

[rj2012]

Damn your histamine is way high. Glycine is an NDMA antagonist? It is calming. Do you have the wired but tired feeling? I would test igf-1/gh levels and supplement with gaba. You are just tired? Any other symptoms?

I supplemented with SAMe for a month and 5htp for 2 months with no help. I've also been taking tyrosine at 2grams twice a day with no help. I don't know about glycine and NDMA but I do know its a central nervous system depressant. And yes I do have a wired but tired feeling. It's like an anxiety attack or something similar is right around the corner, yet I'm always yawning and spacing out. I HATE IT. Other symptoms are intense brain fog, which goes along with being tired I guess, but it's more like I can't think, like my brain isn't working to full potential, along with many other faculties. I commonly don't hear people, or I misunderstand them, my vision is tired all the time and I have to try extra hard to focus.

The doc tested igf-1 awhile back and said it was fine, he didn't want to bother with GH because he said it wouldn't be bad if the igf-1 was normal. I haven't thought about supplementing gaba but I will run it by him. I think he's kind of out of ideas and he'll be referring me to an endo very soon.

 

[sazo75]

Do you feel extremely sluggish/lethargic not lethargic meaning your tired and could take a nap , but more of you dont have any energy when you do something and it seems like it takes all the energy out of you to do simple things like just getting off the couch or walking around at your job or other small physical tasks ?

 

[dbol401]

I would go to 23andme.com and do a genetic test which will show methylation mutations. It's 300$ and analyzes tons of genes - not just methylation. You could potentially refer to this site for answers... Theory of Sexual Orgasm and Sexual Exhaustion Symptoms

 

[rj2012]

Do you feel extremely sluggish/lethargic not lethargic meaning your tired and could take a nap , but more of you dont have any energy when you do something and it seems like it takes all the energy out of you to do simple things like just getting off the couch or walking around at your job or other small physical tasks ?

Yeah man thats right. I don't want to do anything. No energy or motivation.

 

[Simpllyhuge]

Sounds like me. I have been using adderall as a crutch for the meantime.
Sounds like adrenals maybe.

 

[sean70ss]

few others

Here are some others.

piractam
aniracetam
lionsmane
phoshatidylserine
sulbutamine
l-huperzine
l-deprenyl
centrophenoxine

adderall is bad stuff. stay away if you can.

 

[sazo75]

HMMMM

Yeah man thats right. I don't want to do anything. No energy or motivation.

Very interesting ! I think I have this exact same issue! When I was in the military this was the biggest issue especially during basic, I noticed this happened and started paying more attention to this after AAS so im wondering if it had something to do with the receptors, I HATE it! I went and got bloodwork in the military and tried to see if they could figure it out and they couldn't , I never considered it could be the Adrenals though !! I think I know EXACTLY how you feel, its like people say to watch your diet/get enough sleep / exercise etc, but I DO all of that stuff and its like sometimes its just like fuck I feel like everything I do takes all the energy out of me and I just want to moap around and I feel like such a fucking slug, im not tired I just feel extremely sluggish and every little fucking physical task is so hard and is a pain in the ass! I dont EVER recall having this feeling when I was younger/ or before starting AAS. It seems like its getting worse now that im back on my blast.

Also ! How do you feel about your gains on cycle, are they pretty low or does it take a high dose for you to respond? Right now im running about 200 mg tren ed and even though im dieting down im not noticing much and people I have spoken to say I should be feeling and seeing results almost daily but it's definitely not like that so im thinking the Adrenal Glands or receptors could have some effect on this.

We really need to get to the bottom of this!