New Cycle Evaluation/Intro

[CIG]

Hey guys,

I've been registered for a while, but haven't actually posted until now. I have a beginner's question about a new cycle, but this is not my first cycle. I've only done individual steroids at a time before, so this is my first stack. I've ran Primobolan (first time), Deca, or Sustanon/Dbol (Dbol was not consistent so I didn't call it a stack). I have never done OCT either, but found I was sensitive to acne/gyno OC especially on Sustanon/Dbol. I have done PCT before with Clomid, but never added OCT. Anyone who would review my plan, meds, and dosages and give their input here would be greatly appreciated.

I chose a basic Deca/Test C/Dianabol stack with frontloading for beginner doses above TRT. Also, I added OCT both with Aromasin and Nolvadex. I am sensitive to acne/gyno effects OC. However, I have never done anti-aromatase inhibitors at all. I've heard that Nolvadex and Deca should be avoided because they promote progestogenic activity of Deca, and is it inappropriate to run an AAI with Nolvadex OC? Therefore, should I cut the Nolvadex OC and just run the Aromasin? If so, how should the Aromasin dose be adjusted (upward)?

PCT includes Clomid/Nolvadex/HCG, but no AAI. Again, is this appropriate? Should AAIs factor in with or instead of Clomid/Nolvadex PC? Do we have again any issue with Nolvadex/Deca progestogenic interaction?

Here's the chart. Thanks much.

**broken link removed**

 

[CIG]

Furthermore, if Arimidex is preferred to Aromasin, please advise me on the appropriate switch-out and dose levels by week in the chart for both OCT and PCT, if appropriate. I forgot why I chose Aromasin; it might have been because I found the most detailed weekly dose information on an article online. You guys know best, though.

Thanks,
CIG

 

[yesidont]

IMO while you would run AI there is no need to take tamoxifen beacuse tamoxifen only blocking estrogen sensitive receptors and aromasin "eliminate" E2

 

[CIG]

I see your logic and tend to agree based on the little I know. AAIs eliminate the unwanted hormone completely, while Tamoxifen acts in a completely different, and less effective way. Do others agree?

Thanks very much YesIDon't,
CIG

 

[CIG]

All,

Continuing YESIDON'T's advice here, and removing Nolvadex during OCT; are my doses of Aromasin as AAI at 12.5mg daily (source: Llewellyn, Anabolics 2009, p. 457-8):

The dosage prescribed in all instances is one 25 mg tablet per day, taken after a meal. When used to mitigate the estrogenic side effects of anabolic/androgenic steroid use or increase muscle definition, male athletes and bodybuilders will commonly take 12.5 mg to 25 mg of exemestane per day. In some instances a half of a tablet (12.5 mg) taken every other day is sufficient to prevent the onset of estrogenic side effects.)​

Is that appropriate for my regimen of CYP/DECA/DBOL as the SOLE OCT at 12.5mg/day (guessing a slight boost from QOD due to sensitivity), given I found I was extremely sensitive to acne/gyno/bloat while on Sustanon and Dianabol before?

Are AAI's such as Aromasin ever used in PCT, or are my CLOMID/NOLVADEX/HCG enough for this stack?

Thanks,
CIG

 

[CIG]

I just noticed Arimidex is TORN OUT of my Anabolics 2009! No wonder I chose Aromasin, as I was misled not even realizing it back then. Now that I know the top two are Aromasin and Arimidex, it is quite obvious that Arimidex is missing.

Anyway, does anyone have any more information about Arimidex vs. Aromasin as OCT (it isn't too late for me to purchase Arimidex instead, if it is the highest quality, safest, and most effective AAI out there, please advise); and my Aromasin doses if Aromasin is indeed preferred, considering I removed Nolvadex; and finally, if AAI are used as PCT considering my proposed CLOMID/TAMOXIFEN/HCG?

Thanks,
CIG

 

[CIG]

I consulted the Anabolics E-Book 2010 Edition by Llewellyn (p. 1294-1296) for the missing Arimidex:

It acts by blocking the enzyme aromatase, subsequently blocking the production of estrogen in the body. Since many forms of breast cancer cells are stimulated by estrogen, reducing levels of this hormone in the body may retard the progression of the disease. This is also the fundamental use of tamoxifen citrate (Nolvadex®), except Nolvadex blocks the action of estrogen at the receptor, not its actual endogenous production.

The dosage prescribed in all instances is 1mg per day until disease progression has halted. When used to mitigate the estrogenic side effects of anabolic/androgenic steroid use, male athletes and bodybuilders will commonly take .5 mg to 1 mg of anastrozole per day. In some instances a half of a tablet (.5 mg) taken every other day is sufficient to mitigate the buildup of estrogen. When used with readily aromatizing androgens such as methandrostenolone or testosterone, gynecomastia and water retention are often effectively blocked. Additionally, the use of anastrozole may decrease fat mass, which can also be tied to estrogen levels. The result can be a harder and much more defined appearance to the muscles and physique, which makes this agent of interest for dieting/cutting purposes as well.​

Llewellyn continues regarding Aromasin now, and while not clearly stating Aromasin is superior for all cases of AS OCT, he does state it is the MOST POTENT (85% Aromasin vs. 80% Arimidex estrogen suppression):

Male bodybuilders and athletes often use the drug for non-approved purposes, namely to counter the estrogenic side effects associated with the use of aromatizable anabolic/androgenic steroids. This may include gynecomastia, fat buildup, and water retention. In some instances aromatase inhibitors may also assist this group with the loss of body fat and increases in muscular definition. Exemestane is one of the most potent aromatase inhibitors presently available. The most commonly cited data (found in the Aromasin packaging insert) reports a lowering of serum estrogen levels by 85% on average in clinical studies with women.​

Finally, Llewellyn on Arimidex's comparative efficacy:

The effects of anastrozole can be very substantial, with a daily dose of 1 mg (commonly 1 tablet) capable of producing estrogen suppression greater than 80% in treated patients.​

Thoughts on Aromasin vs. Arimidex for OCT and appropriate doses for my cycle's OCT here?

Thanks,
CIG