New testosterone study on blood clots

[MethodAir]

I wouldn't say its safe for a guy to go on Anavar to prevent clots either.

Irrespective, anavar can be used to significantly reduce coumadin/rat poison dose. This is provable using a device like a coaguchek.

 

[maldorf]

To illustrate its anti-clotting properties, the addition of 20mg/day anavar can quickly quadruple the effect of a stable coumadin dose, resulting in a 4 fold increase in INR. Then pin yourself and you're likely to swell up like a balloon.

So many things affect Coumadin. I have to watch how much alcohol I drink. Even small servings if done daily will raise it over range.

 

[maldorf]

Irrespective, anavar can be used to significantly reduce coumadin/rat poison dose. This is provable using a device like a coaguchek.

Sounds like a bad idea.

 

[MethodAir]

Sounds like a bad idea.

How is significantly decreasing a rat poison dose a bad idea, if a safe INR level can be maintained?

 

[maldorf]

How is significantly decreasing a rat poison dose a bad idea?

Here we go again.

 

[waterscholar]

Article:

Testosterone Therapy and Venous Thromboembolism Risk in Men With and Without Hypogonadism

This case-crossover study assesses whether testosterone therapy is associated with short-term risk of venous thromboembolism in men with and without hypogonadism.

jamanetwork.com

 

[MethodAir]

Article:

Testosterone Therapy and Venous Thromboembolism Risk in Men With and Without Hypogonadism

This case-crossover study assesses whether testosterone therapy is associated with short-term risk of venous thromboembolism in men with and without hypogonadism.

jamanetwork.com

There will always be conflicting studies, depending on who is funding them:

Testosterone therapy not linked with blood clot disorders in veins, study finds

A new study of more than 30,000 commercially insured men is the first large comparative analysis to show that there is no link between testosterone therapy and blood clots in veins. The study found that middle-aged and older men who receive testosterone therapy are not at increased risk of this...

www.sciencedaily.com

"A new study from The University of Texas Medical Branch at Galveston of more than 30,000 commercially insured men is the first large comparative analysis to show that there is no link between testosterone therapy and blood clots in veins. The study found that middle-aged and older men who receive testosterone therapy are not at increased risk of this illness. The findings are detailed in Mayo Clinic Proceedings"

 

[waterscholar]

There will always be conflicting studies, depending on who is funding them:

Testosterone therapy not linked with blood clot disorders in veins, study finds

A new study of more than 30,000 commercially insured men is the first large comparative analysis to show that there is no link between testosterone therapy and blood clots in veins. The study found that middle-aged and older men who receive testosterone therapy are not at increased risk of this...

www.sciencedaily.com

Uggggh, here we go again. Not true, there are so many other reasons for why studies might differ

 

[Deleted member 106824]

For those with blood disorders use only 50mg for TRT per week.

What sort of levels are you seeing people achieve with only 50mg per week? I am in favor of lower TRT doses in the sense that I think many bodybuilders basically are cruising on 200-300mg, but when I dropped down to 40mg accidentally for 3 weeks (the concentration of my prescription changed) it had me quite low. I would imagine 50mg per week would have people around 300ng/dL.

 

[MethodAir]

Uggggh, here we go again. Not true, there are so many other reasons for why studies might differ

For those not living in a vacuum, corruption in the scientific and medical community is well documented, including recently by Dr. Judy Mikovits.

While TRT is known to increase rbc, hematocrit and hemogloblin, other less popularized factors like prothrombin time should also be considered. One can have elevated hematocrit, and increased prothrombin time (which increases susceptibility to bleeding).

 

[maldorf]

Article:

Testosterone Therapy and Venous Thromboembolism Risk in Men With and Without Hypogonadism

This case-crossover study assesses whether testosterone therapy is associated with short-term risk of venous thromboembolism in men with and without hypogonadism.

jamanetwork.com

I'm wondering why they find younger men have a higher risk. Maybe their doses are higher?

 

[maldorf]

What sort of levels are you seeing people achieve with only 50mg per week? I am in favor of lower TRT doses in the sense that I think many bodybuilders basically are cruising on 200-300mg, but when I dropped down to 40mg accidentally for 3 weeks (the concentration of my prescription changed) it had me quite low. I would imagine 50mg per week would have people around 300ng/dL.

I think if you do the every day injections like Emeric you'll end up in normal range. Personally I do 100 mg once a week and haven't had an issue in 12 years.

 

[maldorf]

A Tumultuous Course of Exogenous Testosterone by a Bodybuilder Causing a Catastrophic Hypercoagulable State in the Surgical Intensive Care Unit

Present literature demonstrates an equivocal relationship between testosterone and thrombogenicity. Herein, we describe a case in which a patient used an unspecified amount and duration of exogenous testosterone injections, subsequently developing thrombotic events in his: right radial artery...

www.hindawi.com

 

[waterscholar]

I'm wondering why they find younger men have a higher risk. Maybe their doses are higher?

Sometimes these are open-access on google scholar (especially for JAMA, Nature, etc): https://jamanetwork.com/journals/ja...k2AbVXPi33zYlRfk5mHKzHpLdKKU3d1OWbccDKzd1khtQ

One thing to note is that even though the younger group had a higher risk compared to the older - the difference between the two groups (i.e., the interaction) was not significant. Thus, there really wasn't a difference (at least statistically)

 

[hawkmoon]

I cannot read the study without full access. Can anyone who has access let us know if there is an absolute or relative risk?
I often find this is left out of the information by the time is makes it to general media sources.

 

[emeric delczeg]

What sort of levels are you seeing people achieve with only 50mg per week? I am in favor of lower TRT doses in the sense that I think many bodybuilders basically are cruising on 200-300mg, but when I dropped down to 40mg accidentally for 3 weeks (the concentration of my prescription changed) it had me quite low. I would imagine 50mg per week would have people around 300ng/dL.

50mg will not make you huge, but you can get big, I was big with out using any till age 44, training, good healthy diet and healthy life style is the most important. Don`t be scared to train, I am almost 68 and I train as intense as I did when I was younger, because you get older it not necessary to take it easier, I may not lift as heavy as I use to, but my intensity is the same, evening when I go sleep I fall a slip thinking about my morning workout, I am geting goosebumps just now writing about taring. You need to put is 100% mentally and physically, you need to believe in your self and be in full control.

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

For those with blood disorders use only 50mg for TRT per week.

how does one maintain good size with only 50 mgs a week indefinitely and keep a good amount of size, is it possible?

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

Flying too long in a plane also increases your chances of a blood clot.

not if you did what Levrone did that kept him from being watery before a competition

 

[mayan]

Dr. Judy Mikovits.

You said enough. If you take her seriously, no one should take you seriously.

 

[Stewie]

I cannot read the study without full access. Can anyone who has access let us know if there is an absolute or relative risk?
I often find this is left out of the information by the time is makes it to general media sources.

I accessed the full literature, it's an association risk stratification of thrombotic events within the first 6 months of initiating testosterone replacement.

There's no details of intra-individual lifestyles and or hematological disorders (which is of value) other than the exclusion of patients dx'd with any form of cancer.

A more detailed long-term study would be more pertinent.

our study provides novel information about the time frame of exposuremost pertinent to risk, with risk being greatest in the first 3 months after testosterone therapy initiation.

Furthermore, our study provides novel information about the time frame of exposure to testosterone therapy and risk of VTE. Our exploratory analysis found evidence that risk es- timates were higher in the 1- to 3-month and less than 1-month case periods compared with the 3- to 6-month case periods. This observation is analogous to patterns seen for oral contraceptives and VTE risk, whereby women are at greatest risk shortly after beginning oral contraceptive use, and provides hypothesis-generating information for future research on testosterone therapy and VTE.

Strengths and Limitations A strength of this study is the use of a large administrative claims data. To our knowledge, we had the largest number of cases included in a study evaluating testosterone therapy as a potential VTE risk factor. One of the strengths of the case- crossover design is its ability to account for time-invariant unmeasured confounding.With patients acting as their own con- trols, relatively static or slowly varying factors (eg, obesity, smoking status, and family history of VTE) are assumed to remain constant during the case and control periods.35 This design can be particularly useful in the context of administrative data with information on important potential covariates (eg, obesity or family history) not available in the data set. An assumption of the case-crossover design is that exposures are transient. Our exploratory analysis showed that the association of testosterone therapy with VTE was transient because the association was attenuated within the 3- to 6-month ex- posure category compared with the 1-month and 1- to 3-month categories.