New to HCG Usage

[Rogue]

Yeah, I do realize that 200mg of testosterone is actually much more than most humans would ever naturally produce, and that 100mg should bring me back to normal levels, where hopefully my hormone ratios will balance out. I would prefer to keep my test levels at the top of the range, but I do realize that many men actually feel better and have better erections and libido on a lower amount of test with their levels at mid-range.

It's just that as a former competitive bodybuilder and long-time steroid user, I feel resistant to dropping my dose below 200mg, which already feels like a very low dose of test to me. I always felt great taking 400-500mg test per week. But fertility is the big priority now, so whatever it takes to get the sperm levels up and the job done, that will be the right thing to do.

100mg it is.

Good luck to you, man. Keep us posted on how this goes for you.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

The high estrogen effects of too much HCG are what I believe to be my problem at the moment.

I am 50 years old, and have been using test and other steroids for over 26 years now. My wife and I would like to have one more child, so since December, I have been on my own fertility program of 200mg Test Cyp per week, 50mg Proviron per day, 500 iu HCG per day, 25-50iu HMG per day, and 50mg Clomid per day.

This has successfully brought my sperm levels up from zero, to 4 million per ml, to over 7 million per ml at the most recent semen analysis on June 20. So my protocol is working, although of course it could certainly be improved.

However, I have been suffering from lack of libido and ED issues, which I believe to be caused by high estrogen from the HCG (and admittedly, perhaps too much testosterone as well, although I had much better libido when I used to take 400mg Test Cyp per week. However, right now fertility is the main concern, so I thought it was wise to reduce test levels to what puts me at the top or slightly over the top of the range, 1014 and 944 ng/dL on the last two blood tests with a reference range of 264-916. FT was 21 pg/mL on a range from 7.2 to 24, E2 (non-sensitive) was 58.3 PG/ML on a range from 27.1 to 52.2).

Now I have started going to a fertility specialist to see if he can further improve the results, and his two big ideas were to decrease my testosterone from 200mg to 100mg per week, and to increase the HCG up to 3000iu three times per week, much more than I am taking right now.

I know that there is research indicating that higher levels of HCG do increase sperm counts more than lower levels of HCG.

However, my concern is that the higher amounts of HCG will further increase my estrogen levels, although that would partially be lessened by taking less testosterone per week that can aromatize into estrogen.

I don't want to suffer from more libido and ED problems caused by too much estrogen, although right now fertility is the primary focus, so I have to do whatever leads to higher sperm levels. So I am in a bit of a quandary as to whether to take the fertility specialist's recommendations, or whether just to stick with my own program of 500iu per day that has worked reasonably well for me so far.

So my big question is, do higher amounts of HCG really increase sperm counts much more than lower steady consistent amounts of 250-500iu per day?

Do you take all of your 200mg of test in one dose? And if so, how long after that are you getting your blood work done? I would expect your levels to be higher taking 200mg per week.

Also, why not simply take an AI?

For what it's worth, 1mg adex keeps my E2 level at a very good range while on 80-100mg of test per week. Libido is high and erections are too frequent lol. I'm 27 though.

 

[Sides]

Do you take all of your 200mg of test in one dose? And if so, how long after that are you getting your blood work done? I would expect your levels to be higher taking 200mg per week.

Also, why not simply take an AI?

For what it's worth, 1mg adex keeps my E2 level at a very good range while on 80-100mg of test per week. Libido is high and erections are too frequent lol. I'm 27 though.

I split up my dose of 200mg test into two injections of 100mg, once every 3.5 days. I have always tried to time my bloodwork so that I am getting blood done at the lowest point (trough), just before I do the next injection. What my test levels would be at peak, I can't say.

Now that I am going to be doing only 100mg per week, I will split that up into two injections of 50mg each, just to keep blood labels more stable. Always IM injections into the quad or delt with a 25g 5/8" pin. I have considered trying out daily sub-Q injections of 10-20mg just to keep blood levels more stable, but I am very old school and have always done IM injections for the last 26 years, so I am hesitant to make more changes before seeing how the current changes effect me.

I have no problems with taking an AI (Arimidex or Femara), but in the past I've crashed my E2 by taking too much Arimidex, which led to further libido problems. So I realize I need more frequent bloodwork just to see where my levels are at on a lower dose before I start experimenting with another AI.

My libido used to be much higher, and erections much better, when I used to take 400-500mg of test per week, with no AI and also never any HCG. But now that I am 50, and we are trying for one more child, fertility is the main concern and I had to lower the test dose and start using HCG and HMG. But my libido and erections have suffered ever since I started the fertility program, so I have to think the combination of the lower test dose and large doses of HCG are probably the main cause.

 

[GettingBackIn]

The high estrogen effects of too much HCG are what I believe to be my problem at the moment.

I am 50 years old, and have been using test and other steroids for over 26 years now. My wife and I would like to have one more child, so since December, I have been on my own fertility program of 200mg Test Cyp per week, 50mg Proviron per day, 500 iu HCG per day, 25-50iu HMG per day, and 50mg Clomid per day.

This has successfully brought my sperm levels up from zero, to 4 million per ml, to over 7 million per ml at the most recent semen analysis on June 20. So my protocol is working, although of course it could certainly be improved.

However, I have been suffering from lack of libido and ED issues, which I believe to be caused by high estrogen from the HCG (and admittedly, perhaps too much testosterone as well, although I had much better libido when I used to take 400mg Test Cyp per week. However, right now fertility is the main concern, so I thought it was wise to reduce test levels to what puts me at the top or slightly over the top of the range, 1014 and 944 ng/dL on the last two blood tests with a reference range of 264-916. FT was 21 pg/mL on a range from 7.2 to 24, E2 (non-sensitive) was 58.3 PG/ML on a range from 27.1 to 52.2).

Now I have started going to a fertility specialist to see if he can further improve the results, and his two big ideas were to decrease my testosterone from 200mg to 100mg per week, and to increase the HCG up to 3000iu three times per week, much more than I am taking right now.

I know that there is research indicating that higher levels of HCG do increase sperm counts more than lower levels of HCG.

However, my concern is that the higher amounts of HCG will further increase my estrogen levels, although that would partially be lessened by taking less testosterone per week that can aromatize into estrogen.

I don't want to suffer from more libido and ED problems caused by too much estrogen, although right now fertility is the primary focus, so I have to do whatever leads to higher sperm levels. So I am in a bit of a quandary as to whether to take the fertility specialist's recommendations, or whether just to stick with my own program of 500iu per day that has worked reasonably well for me so far.

So my big question is, do higher amounts of HCG really increase sperm counts much more than lower steady consistent amounts of 250-500iu per day?

That Clomid seems high for a fertility protocol. I started out doing the 50 a day you're doing, and had to cut it back. As soon as I went down to 25 eod we got pregnant.

 

[Sides]

That Clomid seems high for a fertility protocol. I started out doing the 50 a day you're doing, and had to cut it back. As soon as I went down to 25 eod we got pregnant.

That's interesting; my fertility doctor agreed with me that 50mg Clomid a day was a good dose for me.

What else were you using? How long were you on test or other steroids before trying to conceive?

 

[Deleted member 106824]

I split up my dose of 200mg test into two injections of 100mg, once every 3.5 days. I have always tried to time my bloodwork so that I am getting blood done at the lowest point (trough), just before I do the next injection. What my test levels would be at peak, I can't say.

Now that I am going to be doing only 100mg per week, I will split that up into two injections of 50mg each, just to keep blood labels more stable. Always IM injections into the quad or delt with a 25g 5/8" pin. I have considered trying out daily sub-Q injections of 10-20mg just to keep blood levels more stable, but I am very old school and have always done IM injections for the last 26 years, so I am hesitant to make more changes before seeing how the current changes effect me.

I have no problems with taking an AI (Arimidex or Femara), but in the past I've crashed my E2 by taking too much Arimidex, which led to further libido problems. So I realize I need more frequent bloodwork just to see where my levels are at on a lower dose before I start experimenting with another AI.

My libido used to be much higher, and erections much better, when I used to take 400-500mg of test per week, with no AI and also never any HCG. But now that I am 50, and we are trying for one more child, fertility is the main concern and I had to lower the test dose and start using HCG and HMG. But my libido and erections have suffered ever since I started the fertility program, so I have to think the combination of the lower test dose and large doses of HCG are probably the main cause.

Makes sense.

Just as an anecdote, I do 4 injections per week of 20mg. Tried SubQ and can't say I noticed any benefit and if anything it might have resulted in slightly higher estrogen. I do shallow IM with a 30g 0.5" needle.

 

[Sides]

Makes sense.

Just as an anecdote, I do 4 injections per week of 20mg. Tried SubQ and can't say I noticed any benefit and if anything it might have resulted in slightly higher estrogen. I do shallow IM with a 30g 0.5" needle.

That's a good way of doing things. I appreciate your input about the sub-Q injections as I am still on the fence about it.

I am injecting HCG and HMG and HGH every day anyway, so I figure why not just add 10-20mg of test to the sub-Q shot? But I hear mixed opinions about them, so I have stuck with the IM shots for now. I figure if IM shots have worked for me the last 26 years, why change it now?

 

[GettingBackIn]

That's interesting; my fertility doctor agreed with me that 50mg Clomid a day was a good dose for me.

What else were you using? How long were you on test or other steroids before trying to conceive?

I had been on quite a bit of gear for at least 2 years without a break. I used the same hcg and Clomid protocol you're using and it worked for volume but we just weren't getting pregnant. I also stayed on 200mg cyp the whole time.

I ran out of hcg and Clomid and got frustrated, decided to just order online and do it on my own. I spoke to another doctor who said that Clomid can flip your fertility on and off like a switch. Basically, if 25 mg works to turn it on, then 50 might hit the switch again and turn it off.

We tracked my wife's cycles. First month, I did 50mg a day for a week leading up to it. Second month I did 25mg a day for a week leading up to ovulation. The third month, I cut down to 25 eod the week before, and it worked.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

I ran out of hcg and Clomid and got frustrated, decided to just order online and do it on my own. I spoke to another doctor who said that Clomid can flip your fertility on and off like a switch. Basically, if 25 mg works to turn it on, then 50 might hit the switch again and turn it off.

I've never heard of this, did he propose any mechanism by which that would be possible?