Next level of size

[bigdog123]

The mk is oral and its from an online company but they are a supplement company and just do mk on top of protein powders etc. It's muscle rage, definitely gtg.

They don't sell injectable peps.

I have used some other peps before, had good results with cjc dac but it was from an American site, seems to have been closed down. The mAin uk sites are hit and miss and seem over priced.

Was doing 10mg a week of it and felt like I was on a decent dose of hgh.

I've used hyge's before years back and they were good. The last batch set me back £700 made me ill for almost a week so I have discontinued them.

 

[Elvia1023]

The mk is oral and its from an online company but they are a supplement company and just do mk on top of protein powders etc. It's muscle rage, definitely gtg.

They don't sell injectable peps.

I have used some other peps before, had good results with cjc dac but it was from an American site, seems to have been closed down. The mAin uk sites are hit and miss and seem over priced.

Was doing 10mg a week of it and felt like I was on a decent dose of hgh.

I've used hyge's before years back and they were good. The last batch set me back £700 made me ill for almost a week so I have discontinued them.

That's why I asked as I figured I may have used the brand as there aren't that many. I used the musclerage MK. I didn't get the mk-47 but the ultimate product that was 10mg mk and 4.5mg lgd-4033 per cap. As you state it's definitely legit and good stuff.

 

[heavyhitter]

Did you use a pep company for your mk-677 or did you order it from a supp company in the UK? I have used a few brands from the UK. They were all real. Every mk I have used has been good with little difference between the brands. Of course peps could be shit at times and fake etc. But I think many times guys are not consistent enough. Plus it's not like they transform you very quickly (aside from high dosed lr3 imo) but the likes of ghrp-2 and hexarelin can be extremely effective. But you are talking one big spike of gh per injection that doesn't last long so they need to be dosed consistently over a long period to see them shine.

No need for studies but there have been some extremely impressive human studies done on certain GHRP's over the years. MK-677 due to it's long acting nature and the multiple (approx 12) pulses it creates per day is the quick go to for a GHRP. But for guys like me who can't cope with the side effects I am now looking back to the others I have used with good results in the past. The reason I didn't like using most GHRP's is because I can be quite lazy and injecting myself (even easy slin pins injs) used to annoy me 3-4 times daily. CJC-DAC is great as I can dose that twice weekly it's just when I have to add a GHRP into the mix

Obviously anyone who can use hgh in the pursuit of size just go with that. MK-677 is another great tool as well. You could even rotate or combine them. They are generally the most effective gh boosters to use but for anyone who can't deal with the side effects but want a boost in hgh/igf-1 there are other options.

I have a bit of similar problem when It comes to peps is the multiple daily injects. I just forget to do them after a few weeks. One idea if been thinking about lately is running mk-677 for the pulses and not having to use a ghrp, and then running dac alongside it to increase the spike of the pulses from the MK. Have you ever tried this or read anyone who has?

 

[Elvia1023]

I have a bit of similar problem when It comes to peps is the multiple daily injects. I just forget to do them after a few weeks. One idea if been thinking about lately is running mk-677 for the pulses and not having to use a ghrp, and then running dac alongside it to increase the spike of the pulses from the MK. Have you ever tried this or read anyone who has?

That's pretty much the perfect peptide stack. It's ideal for anyone who doesn't want to use hgh for whatever reason. I have used it and quite a few guys on here have. If you can handle the MK that's the most effective GHRP and is obviously active all day. So cjc-dac on top as the long acting GHRH and you are gtg. I would run the same but I can't due to the MK. I actually ordered 6 vials of 5mg cjc-dac last night and will run it for 6 weeks when it comes. Gonna dose it at 2.5mg twice weekly as I like it that way but I have had good results from as little as 2mg per week (5mg is much better though).

 

[heavyhitter]

That's pretty much the perfect peptide stack. It's ideal for anyone who doesn't want to use hgh for whatever reason. I have used it and quite a few guys on here have. If you can handle the MK that's the most effective GHRP and is obviously active all day. So cjc-dac on top as the long acting GHRH and you are gtg. I would run the same but I can't due to the MK. I actually ordered 6 vials of 5mg cjc-dac last night and will run it for 6 weeks when it comes. Gonna dose it at 2.5mg twice weekly as I like it that way but I have had good results from as little as 2mg per week (5mg is much better though).

Ya MK is pretty rough for me too. The lethargy I get from it can be almost paralyzing, lol

 

[liv2pb]

I have a bit of similar problem when It comes to peps is the multiple daily injects. I just forget to do them after a few weeks. One idea if been thinking about lately is running mk-677 for the pulses and not having to use a ghrp, and then running dac alongside it to increase the spike of the pulses from the MK. Have you ever tried this or read anyone who has?

I do this almost every cycle. 12.5-25 mg mk and 2-4mg DAC. Works amazing

 

[homonunculus]

Someone may have addressed this already, but if I recall correctly, Scott stated that after one week of using MK that GH production continues, but only at about 50% of what it was...and it stays there long-term.

Some guys might think a 50% decrease is a lot and think to themselves "why should I continue using it if it drops 50%?" Well, the thing is that MK produces such a huge increase in GH during the first week that a 50% reduction still leaves the person with quite a bit of GH being produced.

I would be willing to bet that 25 mg of MK per day, during the first week of use when sensitivity is at its peak, results in GH increases rivaling 7-8 iu of GH per day (on average), and in some cases probably even more. The results certainly indicate that. Look at what most guys gain during their first 7 days of MK when using 25 mg/day--like 6-12 lbs of bodyweight, on average. I've seen some guys gain 18 pounds in 2 weeks...and their increase in muscle fullness was mind-blowing. It rivaled Anadrol or even SD.

The first time I used MK I gained 10 pounds in 7 days...and probably 8-9 pounds of that went right into my muscles. I looked noticeably bigger. I was like "holy shit does this stuff work crazy good". I get absolutely no negative side effects from it. My appetite blows up, but I love that.

Thanks, Mike!

Yes, firstly - one of my favorite quotes is a Zen koan: "If you meet a Buddha in the road, kill him" which can be interpreted to mean that if someone says they're you're end all be all "guru" that's the last guy to trust. (And that includes me, of course! LOL) Ultimately, we each make the call to trust someone. (Thanks for trusting me, though, CG!!!)

Also, I address MK-677 on my podcast (with Scott McNally) called Muscle Minds, not Gear'd up. (I was on that one like 3yr ago I think...)

And yes, as Mike mentioned, I was looking at the data (and I posted these in one of my last posts in that other thread) not someone's blood panels, and there is a reduction in the AUC of GH from first dose (25mg) to that two weeks later, but the elevation in GH release is NOT eliminated.

In one study of obese subjections, after a couple weeks week GH AUC is about 25% of the first dose and seems to stay that way up to the 8 week out mark with daily dosing (25mg). This study also shows about a 1.5 fold elevation in IGF-1 that persists for the full 8 weeks.
1. Svensson J, Lonn L, Jansson JO, et al. Two-month treatment of obese subjects with the oral growth hormone (GH) secretagogue MK-677 increases GH secretion, fat-free mass, and energy expenditure. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1998;83(2):362-369.


There is another 1 week study - daily dosing - showing that at the end of one week, there is no difference between placebo and either a low (5mg) or high (25mg) GH AUC, suggesting no elevation of GH on average, although the # of GH peaks is increased with both doses. This one is a nice study b/c the put up data from individuals and you can see the variability. But there IS an elevation of IGF-1 here - about 25-40% just eyeballing the bar graph (Fig 3).
1. Copinschi G, Van Onderbergen A, L'Hermite-Baleriaux M, et al. Effects of a 7-day treatment with a novel, orally active, growth hormone (GH) secretagogue, MK-677, on 24-hour GH profiles, insulin-like growth factor I, and adrenocortical function in normal young men. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1996;81(8):2776-2782.


The longest study I know of is with older folks suggests that even at the 1 year mark, GH 24hr AUC is elevated 1.5fold above placebo and IGF-1 is elevated 1.8 fold with 25mg / day.
1. Nass R, Pezzoli SS, Oliveri MC, et al. Effects of an Oral Ghrelin Mimetic on Body Composition and Clinical Outcomes in Healthy Older Adults: A Randomized, Controlled Trial. Ann Intern Med. 2008;149(9):601-611.

-------

So there's some variability in the GH response, it seems to diminish rather quickly after the first dose, with one study showing that it's eliminated at one week (compared to placebo) but others showing substantial increases above placebo (Obese subjects) and another showing more modest increases (older folks) that persist for months - years.

It seems to consistently increase IGF-1, and effect that persists for many months.

SO - THE QUESTION I WAS ASKED to respond to on the podcast was loss of responsiveness to the MK-677, so that was the focus there. It's very powerful first response and seems to fade - RELATIVE to that - quite a bit (25% of initial value for 24hr AUC or even to nothing in one study) in a matter of days.

So the guy who asked the original Q might have simply been one of those poor responders to MK-677, which is something that is in the study showing no difference in placebo vs. both MK-677 doses on average also showed with individual data points, and something that Mike A. also mentioned in that other thread.

A better question is whether something like EOD dosing could retain sensitivity and thus literally get more GH bang for the MK-677 buck. I would imagine if GH AUC were elevated the same with and EOD protocol vs. daily dosing, that IGF-1 levels would be similar.

Also in the low vs. high dosing study, 5mg elevated IGF-1 about 25% vs. 40% with 25mg... So, there may be more papers out there to help delineate a dose response for a single dose, but one could speculate that using more than what approaches a "saturation" dose or whatever minimal dose created the maximal elevation in GH AUC would only reduce the GH release from repeated dosing (by causing greater down regulation)...

So, those guys who might be using like 10-12.5mg EOD or perhaps only several days / week might be on to something.

-S

 

[little slice]

i wish Dr. Scott was my neighbor

 

[thethinker48]

i wish Dr. Scott was my neighbor

He thanks God you ain't

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[Elvia1023]

Good info. There was definately miscommunication earlier in the thread. I am not surprised you don't think the effects stop at 1 week as I knew you would have researched the subject extensively. Just curious have you used it yourself and if so what did you experience?

I think there are quite a few guys on here who are aware of what you posted about the possible eod dosing to prevent desensitization. JJ helps as he has posted an MK study fortnightly it seems for about 2 years I started lower eod dosing but not for improved performance but simply to handle the side effects. Even if I aided my longer term response it was pointless as even at 4 doses per week at 10-12.5mg the fatigue gets too much to handle. Stimulants, adaptogens and nootropics (not many as I tend to stay away from these) don't help me at all.

Would you agree that the original increase in size (water retention) was primarily from the initial large spike in gh? I would guess there are other mechanisms at play but I am unsure what they could be. I have a theory but don't know. Good to see you posting on here. I wanted to go to bodypower but couldn't but would have said hi if I did. I will go next year as it's been a while since I have been.

Thanks, Mike!

Yes, firstly - one of my favorite quotes is a Zen koan: "If you meet a Buddha in the road, kill him" which can be interpreted to mean that if someone says they're you're end all be all "guru" that's the last guy to trust. (And that includes me, of course! LOL) Ultimately, we each make the call to trust someone. (Thanks for trusting me, though, CG!!!)

Also, I address MK-677 on my podcast (with Scott McNally) called Muscle Minds, not Gear'd up. (I was on that one like 3yr ago I think...)

And yes, as Mike mentioned, I was looking at the data (and I posted these in one of my last posts in that other thread) not someone's blood panels, and there is a reduction in the AUC of GH from first dose (25mg) to that two weeks later, but the elevation in GH release is NOT eliminated.

In one study of obese subjections, after a couple weeks week GH AUC is about 25% of the first dose and seems to stay that way up to the 8 week out mark with daily dosing (25mg). This study also shows about a 1.5 fold elevation in IGF-1 that persists for the full 8 weeks.
1. Svensson J, Lonn L, Jansson JO, et al. Two-month treatment of obese subjects with the oral growth hormone (GH) secretagogue MK-677 increases GH secretion, fat-free mass, and energy expenditure. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1998;83(2):362-369.


There is another 1 week study - daily dosing - showing that at the end of one week, there is no difference between placebo and either a low (5mg) or high (25mg) GH AUC, suggesting no elevation of GH on average, although the # of GH peaks is increased with both doses. This one is a nice study b/c the put up data from individuals and you can see the variability. But there IS an elevation of IGF-1 here - about 25-40% just eyeballing the bar graph (Fig 3).
1. Copinschi G, Van Onderbergen A, L'Hermite-Baleriaux M, et al. Effects of a 7-day treatment with a novel, orally active, growth hormone (GH) secretagogue, MK-677, on 24-hour GH profiles, insulin-like growth factor I, and adrenocortical function in normal young men. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1996;81(8):2776-2782.


The longest study I know of is with older folks suggests that even at the 1 year mark, GH 24hr AUC is elevated 1.5fold above placebo and IGF-1 is elevated 1.8 fold with 25mg / day.
1. Nass R, Pezzoli SS, Oliveri MC, et al. Effects of an Oral Ghrelin Mimetic on Body Composition and Clinical Outcomes in Healthy Older Adults: A Randomized, Controlled Trial. Ann Intern Med. 2008;149(9):601-611.

-------

So there's some variability in the GH response, it seems to diminish rather quickly after the first dose, with one study showing that it's eliminated at one week (compared to placebo) but others showing substantial increases above placebo (Obese subjects) and another showing more modest increases (older folks) that persist for months - years.

It seems to consistently increase IGF-1, and effect that persists for many months.

SO - THE QUESTION I WAS ASKED to respond to on the podcast was loss of responsiveness to the MK-677, so that was the focus there. It's very powerful first response and seems to fade - RELATIVE to that - quite a bit (25% of initial value for 24hr AUC or even to nothing in one study) in a matter of days.

So the guy who asked the original Q might have simply been one of those poor responders to MK-677, which is something that is in the study showing no difference in placebo vs. both MK-677 doses on average also showed with individual data points, and something that Mike A. also mentioned in that other thread.

A better question is whether something like EOD dosing could retain sensitivity and thus literally get more GH bang for the MK-677 buck. I would imagine if GH AUC were elevated the same with and EOD protocol vs. daily dosing, that IGF-1 levels would be similar.

Also in the low vs. high dosing study, 5mg elevated IGF-1 about 25% vs. 40% with 25mg... So, there may be more papers out there to help delineate a dose response for a single dose, but one could speculate that using more than what approaches a "saturation" dose or whatever minimal dose created the maximal elevation in GH AUC would only reduce the GH release from repeated dosing (by causing greater down regulation)...

So, those guys who might be using like 10-12.5mg EOD or perhaps only several days / week might be on to something.

-S

 

[powerof2]

Dr Scott Stevenson said he's seen blood test reflecting after 1 week of MK677 it's no longer making your body make hgh. When I asked him what exactly is at work making these guys gain all this size. He guessed at it just being placebo effect. True.

So I'll ask the same question again, What the hell is making the huge gains that I see taking place when guys use MK677? I've seen it at my own gym. It just scares me not knowing whats at work making your body swell up. I have the stuff sitting on a shelf begging me to do it.

Hgh+ mk= blood glucose threw the roof for me.


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[Elvia1023]

Hgh+ mk= blood glucose threw the roof for me.


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Even MK alone (and hgh alone) can do that. There are things to do that can prevent or minimize it as you know. How bad did it get for you? What doses did you use?