Next level of size

[little slice]

5g Test/3g Tren and lots of orals.

fuck

 

[cutler]

Take a guy with 245lb of bodyweight, 5'9, 10%.

So a good size. Last show 225.

Wants to get up to 235 stage.

Has done a few high dose blasts in the past, 3g a few times, mostly test, mast and the odd bit of deca. Right now as strong as ever on 1.4g of test and npp with 25mg mk but possibly not growing much as total dose isn't high.

No gh for ages as so much is fake. This is disappointing as people should make the real deal and not make fakes.

No slin for ages as can get fat without gh.

Enjoys mk for fullness and strength as a cheap alternative.

Grub typically is up to about 4200 a day. Tends to do 4-6 weeks of eating then a couple weeks dieting. Hrt for half the year for health and 6-8 week blasts twice a year.

What does he do to grow bigger?

255lbs 6' 12%. I always need push kcal atleast 5k day + longer blast with slin helps a lot!

 

[bigdog123]

:yeahthat:

One of my good friends that used to be a mod on here many years ago and whom many of the vets remember got to true FREAK status without ever using GH or slin, I can vouch for it... BUT he was most of the year on 5g Test/3g Tren and lots of orals... 100% real statement...

What's even more surprising is how FINE he felt on those doses... no lethargy whatsoever, only "slight" lol anxiety and propensity to aggressivness when someone pissed him off...

Which goes to show - AGAIN - how people respond differently to gear... and THIS is the real key.

How is this health now?

 

[Gunsmith]

Can I ask how many calories you have him on when growing?

And what dose of aas compared to my 1500mg total atm?

I prefer to go with the hgh and slin route to be honest, it's preferable to upping aas. I have done higher aas before as stated but didn't feel particularly great, heavier yes, but more bloated too. Just need to find some decent hgh and not more crap.

I have always had long breaks between blasts, I.e 6-8 on and 10-16 weeks off or variations of it. I'm assuming guys are just staying on for a full 20 weeks off season and upping doses at various points along with calories as bw plateaus?

Total dose before he started his prep was 400mg test , 200mg EQ and 4iu HGH with insulin
His diet started at 50g Protein per meal , 20g fat per meal
50g carbs + 20gEAA during training , 50g whey + 50g carbs post training then 50g carbs added to the meal after training

He ended up at 70g protein , 30g Fat per meal with 50g carbs added into 2 more meals (1 before training and a second one after.

I personally don’t worry about calories , I focus on essential nutrition as that is what builds muscle.

NOTE: each meal had at least one cup of vegetables , most had 2
You can see her that he wasn’t fat at all after growing
Post #7
http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...scle-forum/144071-how-far-400-600mg-test.html

 

[concreteguy]

Make sure your calorie needs are exceeded by 350 to 400 calories per day. I wouldn't increase the amount of gear your doing one bit. I would change the cycle every six to eight weeks. Start pounding the books DC style. Live and die by it. Beat it by a rep or a 2.5lb plate...but do it. Concentrate on all primary lifts. Mass in these areas is what will move the scale. Not seeing a pic it's hard to say what you need more of. An off season set of eyes goes a long way. I would run 5 to 7 iu Humalog before and after each training session. That amount will not get you in trouble with fat but still works well in the end game.


Make food a religion! There is no such thing as missing a meal. Don't get all mind fucked on gear. Eat your way up! Feed mind blowing training sessions. That's how you grow.


When you reach a Plato is the time to asses if all things have been on point and gear is the final option. At that time gear and food should be increased at the same time.

 

[bigdog123]

Thanks for all the replies.

I'm going to keep this run going for a further ten weeks. Keep aas in range at 1.5g. No need to take it higher.

Atm mk 677 is in at 25mg a day, this stuff for the cost is a no brainer, well for me anyway.

I'm getting some humatrope, will add also.

How will I get on with the hgh and mk and no slin? Or for gains is slin a must right now? Calories are up to 4500,will push towards 5000 as the scales slow down.

I'm using gda's and find these ok keeping bg in range when using hgh in the past.

 

[concreteguy]

One more thing, if there is a way to increase the frequency of your (body part training) DO IT. So if your currently training each body part twice a week, shuffle it around and start training three times a week. Switch up your rep ranges "Fail in the twenties", "fail in the teens", "fail in the 6 to 8s"

 

[little slice]

Thanks for all the replies.

I'm going to keep this run going for a further ten weeks. Keep aas in range at 1.5g. No need to take it higher.

Atm mk 677 is in at 25mg a day, this stuff for the cost is a no brainer, well for me anyway.

I'm getting some humatrope, will add also.

How will I get on with the hgh and mk and no slin? Or for gains is slin a must right now? Calories are up to 4500,will push towards 5000 as the scales slow down.

I'm using gda's and find these ok keeping bg in range when using hgh in the past.

I would like to use mk677 again... but it skyrockets my blood pressure.


if I remember correctly, I saw a study where it increased blood pressure in spite of bp-lowering medications.

 

[tren_plz]

Im going to add 12.5mg mk677 eod in the morning after fasted cardio w/ coffee and bolus does 5IU black tops pre workout after this dnp blast.

Mike's mk677 puts me on my ass like no other. IDK how you guys do 25mg.

 

[concreteguy]

Dr Scott Stevenson said he's seen blood test reflecting after 1 week of MK677 it's no longer making your body make hgh. When I asked him what exactly is at work making these guys gain all this size. He guessed at it just being placebo effect. True.
So I'll ask the same question again, What the hell is making the huge gains that I see taking place when guys use MK677? I've seen it at my own gym. It just scares me not knowing whats at work making your body swell up. I have the stuff sitting on a shelf begging me to do it.

 

[bigdog123]

I am definitely more sleepy taking 25mg first thing. Get in from work about 16.30 and often fall asleep for an hour.

Plus nine hours sleep at night, so ten hours sleep a day, and wake up dead to the world at 8am!

Fuller and stronger though, think it keeps me leaner too. Not sure about actual growth. I think with a few iu gh added it will create some growth or certainly the combined effect of increased appetite, better recovery and ability to stay leaner is all beneficial.

Bp is usually about 125/85 but take two hawthorn tabs a day and it stays around 120/80 now.

 

[bigdog123]

Dr Scott Stevenson said he's seen blood test reflecting after 1 week of MK677 it's no longer making your body make hgh. When I asked him what exactly is at work making these guys gain all this size. He guessed at it just being placebo effect. True.
So I'll ask the same question again, What the hell is making the huge gains that I see taking place when guys use MK677? I've seen it at my own gym. It just scares me not knowing whats at work making your body swell up. I have the stuff sitting on a shelf begging me to do it.

I think for some it may be the increased appetite and thus higher caloric intake over and above what they had eaten in the past.

 

[Elvia1023]

Dr Scott Stevenson said he's seen blood test reflecting after 1 week of MK677 it's no longer making your body make hgh. When I asked him what exactly is at work making these guys gain all this size. He guessed at it just being placebo effect. True.
So I'll ask the same question again, What the hell is making the huge gains that I see taking place when guys use MK677? I've seen it at my own gym. It just scares me not knowing whats at work making your body swell up. I have the stuff sitting on a shelf begging me to do it.

Has Scott used MK-677? I can't understand how anyone who has used real MK-677 would think it would be placebo effect after 1 week of usage. Numerous studies show it still works for very long periods. From IGF-1 to improved sleep they are heightened months into a cycle. Many who has used it must have noticed crazy fullness and lot's of water retention long after 1 week of usage. I can't handle the fatigue on it but have noticed results/effects months into usage in the past.

You can't be serious about MK Yes it can increase blood pressure and heart rate etc. But you just posted your best cycle was loads of aas and 100iu lantus. I am sure like me and many on here you have used things like tren, clen, eca, sdrol etc. Nothing wrong with that at all but my point is you have used masny different things (like me) with no problem but you are scared of MK-677. MK is not more dangerous than any of those. It has been given to humans for 1-2 years with no adverse (bad) effects. It's even been given to the elderly (70's, 80's etc) with no bad side effects.

Effects of an oral ghrelin mimetic on body composition and clinical outcomes in healthy older adults: a randomized trial.

Nass R1, Pezzoli SS, Oliveri MC, Patrie JT, Harrell FE Jr, Clasey JL, Heymsfield SB, Bach MA, Vance ML, Thorner MO.

BACKGROUND:

Growth hormone secretion and muscle mass decline from midpuberty throughout life, culminating in sarcopenia, frailty, decreased function, and loss of independence. The decline of growth hormone in the development of sarcopenia is one of many factors, and its etiologic role needs to be demonstrated.

OBJECTIVE:

To determine whether MK-677, an oral ghrelin mimetic, increases growth hormone secretion into the young-adult range without serious adverse effects, prevents the decline of fat-free mass, and decreases abdominal visceral fat in healthy older adults.

DESIGN:

2-year, double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled, modified-crossover clinical trial.

SETTING:

General clinical research center study performed at a university hospital.

PARTICIPANTS:

65 healthy adults (men, women receiving hormone replacement therapy, and women not receiving hormone replacement therapy) ranging from 60 to 81 years of age.

INTERVENTION:

Oral administration of MK-677, 25 mg, or placebo once daily.

MEASUREMENTS:

Growth hormone and insulin-like growth factor I levels. Fat-free mass and abdominal visceral fat were the primary end points after 1 year of treatment. Other end points were body weight, fat mass, insulin sensitivity, lipid and cortisol levels, bone mineral density, limb lean and fat mass, isokinetic strength, function, and quality of life. All end points were assessed at baseline and every 6 months.

RESULTS:

Daily administration of MK-677 significantly increased growth hormone and insulin-like growth factor I levels to those of healthy young adults without serious adverse effects. Mean fat-free mass decreased in the placebo group but increased in the MK-677 group (change, -0.5 kg [95% CI, -1.1 to 0.2 kg] vs. 1.1 kg [CI, 0.7 to 1.5 kg], respectively; P < 0.001), as did body cell mass, as reflected by intracellular water (change, -1.0 kg [CI, -2.1 to 0.2 kg] vs. 0.8 kg [CI, -0.1 to 1.6 kg], respectively; P = 0.021). No significant differences were observed in abdominal visceral fat or total fat mass; however, the average increase in limb fat was greater in the MK-677 group than the placebo group (1.1 kg vs. 0.24 kg; P = 0.001). Body weight increased 0.8 kg (CI, -0.3 to 1.8 kg) in the placebo group and 2.7 kg (CI, 2.0 to 3.5 kg) in the MK-677 group (P = 0.003). Fasting blood glucose level increased an average of 0.3 mmol/L (5 mg/dL) in the MK-677 group (P = 0.015), and insulin sensitivity decreased. The most frequent side effects were an increase in appetite that subsided in a few months and transient, mild lower-extremity edema and muscle pain. Low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels decreased in the MK-677 group relative to baseline values (change, -0.14 mmol/L [CI, -0.27 to -0.01 mmol/L]; -5.4 mg/dL [CI, -10.4 to -0.4 mg/dL]; P = 0.026); no differences between groups were observed in total or high-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels. Cortisol levels increased 47 nmol/L (CI, 28 to 71 nmol/L (1.7 microg/dL [CI, 1.0 to 2.6 microg/dL]) in MK-677 recipients (P = 0.020). Changes in bone mineral density consistent with increased bone remodeling occurred in MK-677 recipients. Increased fat-free mass did not result in changes in strength or function. Two-year exploratory analyses confirmed the 1-year results.

LIMITATION:

Study power (duration and participant number) was insufficient to evaluate functional end points in healthy elderly persons.

CONCLUSION:

Over 12 months, the ghrelin mimetic MK-677 enhanced pulsatile growth hormone secretion, significantly increased fat-free mass, and was generally well tolerated. Long-term functional and, ultimately, pharmacoeconomic, studies in elderly persons are indicated.


Stimulation of the growth hormone (GH)-insulin-like growth factor I axis by daily oral administration of a GH secretogogue (MK-677) in healthy elderly subjects.

Chapman IM1, Bach MA, Van Cauter E, Farmer M, Krupa D, Taylor AM, Schilling LM, Cole KY, Skiles EH, Pezzoli SS, Hartman ML, Veldhuis JD, Gormley GJ, Thorner MO.

Aging is associated with declining activity of the GH axis, possibly contributing to adverse body composition changes and increased incidence of cardiovascular disease. The stimulatory effects on the GH-insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) axis of orally administered MK-677, a GH-releasing peptide mimetic, were investigated. Thirty-two healthy subjects (15 women and 17 men, aged 64-81 yr) were enrolled in a randomized, double blind, placebo-controlled trial. They received placebo or 2, 10, or 25 mg MK-677, orally, once daily for 2 separate study periods of 14 and 28 days. At baseline and on day 14 of each study period, blood was collected every 20 min for 24 h to measure GH, PRL, and cortisol. Attributes of pulsatile GH release were assessed by 3 independent algorithms. MK-677 administration for 2 weeks increased GH concentrations in a dose-dependent manner, with 25 mg/day increasing mean 24-h GH concentration 97 +/- 23% (mean +/- SE; P < 0.05 vs. baseline). This increase was due to an enhancement of preexisting pulsatile GH secretion. GH pulse height and interpulse nadir concentrations increased significantly without significant changes in the number of pulses. With 25 mg/day MK-677 treatment, mean serum IGF-I concentrations increased into the normal range for young adults (141 +/- 21 microgram/L at baseline, 219 +/- 21 micrograms/L at 2 weeks, and 265 +/- 29 micrograms/L at 4 weeks; P < 0.05). MK-677 produced significant increases in fasting glucose (5.4 +/- 0.3 to 6.8 +/- 0.4 mmol/L at 4 weeks; P < 0.01 vs. baseline) and IGF-binding protein-3. Circulating cortisol concentrations did not change, and PRL concentrations increased 23%, but remained within the normal range. Once daily treatment of older people with oral MK-677 for up to 4 weeks enhanced pulsatile GH release, significantly increased serum GH and IGF-I concentrations, and, at a dose of 25 mg/day, restored serum IGF-I concentrations to those of young adults.

PMID: 8954023 DOI: 10.1210/jcem.81.12.8954023

Oral administration of the growth hormone secretagogue MK-677 increases markers of bone turnover in healthy and functionally impaired elderly adults. The MK-677 Study Group.

Murphy MG1, Bach MA, Plotkin D, Bolognese J, Ng J, Krupa D, Cerchio K, Gertz BJ.

Growth hormone (GH) stimulates osteoblasts in vitro and increases bone turnover and stimulates osteoblast activity when given to elderly subjects. Probably a major effect of GH on bone is mediated through stimulation of either circulating or locally produced insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I). We determined the effect of chronic administration of the GH secretagogue, MK-677, on serum IGF-I and markers of bone turnover in 187 elderly adults (65 years or older) enrolled in three randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical studies lasting 2-9 weeks. Urine was collected for determination of N-telopeptide cross-links (NTXs), a marker of bone resorption, and blood was collected for determination of serum osteocalcin and bone-specific alkaline phosphatase (BSAP), as bone formation markers, and serum IGF-I levels pre- and post-treatment. Dose response data were initially obtained in healthy elderly subjects who received oral doses of 10 mg or 25 mg of MK-677 or placebo for 2 weeks (n = 10-12/group). Treatment with 10 mg and 25 mg of MK-677 for 2 weeks increased mean urine NTXs 10% and 17%, respectively (p < 0.05 vs. placebo). Additionally, 50 healthy elderly subjects received either placebo (n = 20) for 4 weeks or 25 mg of MK-677 (n = 30) daily for 2 weeks followed by 50 mg daily for 2 weeks. MK-677 increased mean serum osteocalcin by 8% (p < 0.05 vs. placebo). In both studies, MK-677 increased serum IGF-I levels significantly (55-94%). Subsequently, the biological effects of MK-677 were studied in 105 elderly subjects who met objective criteria for functional impairment. Subjects were randomized to receive oral doses of placebo for 9 weeks or either 5, 10, or 25 mg of MK-677 daily for an initial 2 weeks followed by 25 mg of MK-677 daily for the next 7 weeks(n = 63 on MK-677 and n = 28 on placebo completed 9 weeks of therapy). Treatment with MK-677 (all MK-677 groups combined) for 9 weeks increased mean serum osteocalcin by 29.4% and BSAP by 10.4% (p < 0.001 vs. placebo) and mean urinary NTX excretion by 22.6% (p < 0.05 vs. placebo). The change from baseline serum osteocalcin correlated with the change from baseline serum IGF-I in the MK-677 group (r = 0.37; p < 0.01). In conclusion, once daily dosing with MK-677, an orally active GH secretagogue, stimulates bone turnover in elderly subjects based on elevations in biochemical markers of bone resorption and formation.

PMID: 10404019 DOI: 10.1359/jbmr.1999.14.7.1182

 

[concreteguy]

Dude I couldn't be more serious about what I just posted. Dr Stevenson was looking at blood panels friend.(pod cast on Geared UP) When it comes to your word or Dr Scott Stevenson, you must be kidding right?


"Loads of aas and 100iu of lantus" You then go on to assume I have taken all these other things??????? If your calling a couple grams of gear "loads"...…...theres a big world out there. You had better buckle up. The point of my thread was it was the Lantus that was the ass behind the cycle.


So go ahead and post your studies and keep putting words directly in my mouth and I'll continue to take the word of a renowned Dr in our sport over yours OK? Don't you get it, your arguing with the messenger…..
Am I not allowed to be concerned when something makes you swell up like a God Damn Alabama Tick and raise you BPer to the moon? Take your medical degree on over to Dr Scott Stevenson and argue with him. Maybe he is dead wrong? But I choose to believe every word he says. I don't want to enter into a protracted talk based on circular patterns of thought. I'm out.


Much respect!

 

[johnjuanb1]

I would like to use mk677 again... but it skyrockets my blood pressure.


if I remember correctly, I saw a study where it increased blood pressure in spite of bp-lowering medications.

Isn’t that due to the fast water weight gain primarily? When i adapt to MK-677 i hold very little fluid, about 10Lbs of intracellular water. My blood pressure monitor needs new batteries but i can tell when my bp is real high. It’s always higher than you guys like.

 

[tren_plz]

So, what are you trying to say Conc?

Dr. Scott says mk677 is worthless and doing more harm than good?

 

[johnjuanb1]

Dr Scott Stevenson said he's seen blood test reflecting after 1 week of MK677 it's no longer making your body make hgh. When I asked him what exactly is at work making these guys gain all this size. He guessed at it just being placebo effect. True.
So I'll ask the same question again, What the hell is making the huge gains that I see taking place when guys use MK677? I've seen it at my own gym. It just scares me not knowing whats at work making your body swell up. I have the stuff sitting on a shelf begging me to do it.

Another clueless “guru”. The guy obviously hasn’t used MK-677 and isn’t bright enough to review all the medical studies proving MK-677 increases Hgh output significantly after one full year of use.

 

[Elvia1023]

Dude I couldn't be more serious about what I just posted. Dr Stevenson was looking at blood panels friend.(pod cast on Geared UP) When it comes to your word or Dr Scott Stevenson, you must be kidding right?


"Loads of aas and 100iu of lantus" You then go on to assume I have taken all these other things??????? If your calling a couple grams of gear "loads"...…...theres a big world out there. You had better buckle up. The point of my thread was it was the Lantus that was the ass behind the cycle.


So go ahead and post your studies and keep putting words directly in my mouth and I'll continue to take the word of a renowned Dr in our sport over yours OK? Don't you get it, your arguing with the messenger…..
Am I not allowed to be concerned when something makes you swell up like a God Damn Alabama Tick and raise you BPer to the moon? Take your medical degree on over to Dr Scott Stevenson and argue with him. Maybe he is dead wrong? But I choose to believe every word he says. I don't want to enter into a protracted talk based on circular patterns of thought. I'm out.


Much respect!

CG I knew you would misinterpret mypost I worded it a certain way so you wouldn't misinterpret it. I mentioned how I do the same for the reason you would not take it the wrong way as I know what you're like. You have no reading comprehension whatsoever. I don't mean to be rude but you really don't and that's why you take guys posts the wrong way all the time. It was not a dig at you in the slightest way. This is not about aruging with the messenger at all as you posted yourself you are scared to run it. This has nothing to do with Scott Stevenson. I simply posted those studies to show some evidence that it's not exactly poison. I am not stating it's healthy but again it's been given to the elderly with no major issues.

I merely pointed out you just posted a cycle the other day that gave you your best gains. I can't even remember it but it's in that thread on the 1st page. I think it was 4.5g total aas and 100iu lantus. Don't misinterput my post as I am not having a go or calling you anything but that is not a beginner cycle. All I meant is I found it funny that you are "scared" to use MK-677 but can run 4.5g gear and 100iu lantus no problem. I have always liked you and appreciated your honesty and straightforward attitude but you misinterput posts so much.

Surely every other poster on this site understands what I mean? Hundreds of guys on this forum (many who have never used aas) have used mk-677 with no health problems.

I am also not playing MK-677 to be this amazing things either. It is great but I can't even use it as I am a walking zombie and feel tired all day. I love/hate it. I told JJ and Rambo the other day and I think I put it in my log I may not even take it ever again as I am so unproductive on it and it's annoying. HGH is the same for me and why I never run that. It can also increase bp and heart rate especially when combined with high aas.

 

[Mr OZ]

relax with the name calling, we have lost some great contributors here because people dont want to deal wish such immature crap

Homon posts here and you could have easily just said, 'lets get him over here to explain his way of thinking'

A little bit of thought before you start tapping the keyboard will go a long way

 

[Elvia1023]

relax with the name calling, we have lost some great contributors here because people dont want to deal wish such immature crap

Homon posts here and you could have easily just said, 'lets get him over here to explain his way of thinking'

A little bit of thought before you start tapping the keyboard will go a long way

I wasn't name calling. I think Scott is great. All I asked was if CG knew if he has used MK-677 before. I don't watch that podcast so I assume he went into detail about his experience with it and why he thinks it's good/bad etc. As I also stated I could not understand how someone who had used it would think it's placebo after 1 week. I value Scott's opinion on all subjects bodybuilding related. As I stated to CG I also wasn't shooting the messenger at all. I merely posted some studies to show it does still do something after 1 week. But I assume most on here not that as they have used it. Many love it and many hate it but it still has effects after 1 week. It would be great if Scott could come on here and explain why he thinks what he does and if he has used it and what were his results/side effects etc.