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Next level of size

I wasn't name calling. I think Scott is great. All I asked was if CG knew if he has used MK-677 before. I don't watch that podcast so I assume he went into detail about his experience with it and why he thinks it's good/bad etc. As I also stated I could not understand how someone who had used it would think it's placebo after 1 week. I value Scott's opinion on all subjects bodybuilding related. As I stated to CG I also wasn't shooting the messenger at all. I merely posted some studies to show it does still do something after 1 week. But I assume most on here not that as they have used it. Many love it and many hate it but it still has effects after 1 week. It would be great if Scott could come on here and explain why he thinks what he does and if he has used it and what were his results/side effects etc.

should have used the quote function, it was johns previous post

all good
 
One last thing I assume you have taken all those things. Yes I do because I have seen you post about them openly many times on the forums over the years. Seriously have you not used tren or clen etc? Just like I have used all of them and probably most of the people on this forum have. I didnpt state some rare drug no one has ever taken so why take offense.

Loads of gear well I have taken loads of gear at 2 grams. It doesn't have to mean 10g but sure 4g of gear is loads. 500mg of 4 compounds at 2g I would conside rloads but it's not a very high dose. This is all silly anyway. I think you completely took things the wrong way. I was not even remotely posting anything negative to you but you took everything I posted that way. Why create arguments when there is nothing to start one from.

Dude I couldn't be more serious about what I just posted. Dr Stevenson was looking at blood panels friend.(pod cast on Geared UP) When it comes to your word or Dr Scott Stevenson, you must be kidding right?


"Loads of aas and 100iu of lantus" You then go on to assume I have taken all these other things??????? If your calling a couple grams of gear "loads"...…...theres a big world out there. You had better buckle up. The point of my thread was it was the Lantus that was the ass behind the cycle.


So go ahead and post your studies and keep putting words directly in my mouth and I'll continue to take the word of a renowned Dr in our sport over yours OK? Don't you get it, your arguing with the messenger…..
Am I not allowed to be concerned when something makes you swell up like a God Damn Alabama Tick and raise you BPer to the moon? Take your medical degree on over to Dr Scott Stevenson and argue with him. Maybe he is dead wrong? But I choose to believe every word he says. I don't want to enter into a protracted talk based on circular patterns of thought. I'm out.


Much respect!
 
should have used the quote function, it was johns previous post

all good

I did gather that but just wasn't sure if you had scanned over the posts and nto read them fully. JJ probably doesn't realize who Scott is. No need to insult him. I do disagree with what he stated but maybe he can come here and explain what he meant. I know you will take this the right way but do you know what I mean when I say I couldn't care less if he did as it's just someones opinion (my post was more making fun of cg).

I wasn't having a go at Scott or CG I just found it funny the way CG worded his post and was replying as a friend making fun in a sense. I am sure others will see what I mean but no point in going on about it and creating a mess so this is me out. CG I like you and have no issue with you so come on stop thinking I am having a go at you whenever I post. It's got to the point I don't want to reply to any of your posts as you seem to take them the wrong way.

I will say MK has the potential to mess up certain blood markers and when combined with other stuff could be unhealthy. The weight alone it creates is not good for the heart, kidneys etc. This is obvious to anyone who has used it. I think it's a great tool when bulking to increase size, fullness, appetite, recovery etc. Injecting 1g test and 10iu slin pre and post and eating loads of cals is nto good for your health either. People use what they want to use and research everything. But sure I disagree with the 1 week mk comment.
 
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Take your medical degree on over to Dr Scott Stevenson and argue with him. Maybe he is dead wrong? But I choose to believe every word he says.

You certainly shouldn't, CG, as you should never follow blindy someone's words, no matter how bright you think that person is... no doc is God, as proven by the COUNTLESS medical errors/cases of malpractice happening all the time and sending people to the graveyard much sooner they'd have hoped... :(:cool:

Elvia meant well in his post, he definitely didn't want to offend you. :) And I don't either! ;)
 
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Dr Scott Stevenson said he's seen blood test reflecting after 1 week of MK677 it's no longer making your body make hgh. When I asked him what exactly is at work making these guys gain all this size. He guessed at it just being placebo effect. True.
So I'll ask the same question again, What the hell is making the huge gains that I see taking place when guys use MK677? I've seen it at my own gym. It just scares me not knowing whats at work making your body swell up. I have the stuff sitting on a shelf begging me to do it.

Someone may have addressed this already, but if I recall correctly, Scott stated that after one week of using MK that GH production continues, but only at about 50% of what it was...and it stays there long-term.

Some guys might think a 50% decrease is a lot and think to themselves "why should I continue using it if it drops 50%?" Well, the thing is that MK produces such a huge increase in GH during the first week that a 50% reduction still leaves the person with quite a bit of GH being produced.

I would be willing to bet that 25 mg of MK per day, during the first week of use when sensitivity is at its peak, results in GH increases rivaling 7-8 iu of GH per day (on average), and in some cases probably even more. The results certainly indicate that. Look at what most guys gain during their first 7 days of MK when using 25 mg/day--like 6-12 lbs of bodyweight, on average. I've seen some guys gain 18 pounds in 2 weeks...and their increase in muscle fullness was mind-blowing. It rivaled Anadrol or even SD.

The first time I used MK I gained 10 pounds in 7 days...and probably 8-9 pounds of that went right into my muscles. I looked noticeably bigger. I was like "holy shit does this stuff work crazy good". I get absolutely no negative side effects from it. My appetite blows up, but I love that.
 
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Dr Scott Stevenson said he's seen blood test reflecting after 1 week of MK677 it's no longer making your body make hgh. When I asked him what exactly is at work making these guys gain all this size. He guessed at it just being placebo effect. True.
So I'll ask the same question again, What the hell is making the huge gains that I see taking place when guys use MK677? I've seen it at my own gym. It just scares me not knowing whats at work making your body swell up. I have the stuff sitting on a shelf begging me to do it.

With all the gh secretagogues and peptides over time GH output decreased but guess what igf levels continued to rise! Igf is what is swelling up the muscles bro. GH is not a muscle builder, IGF is. That's what we are after anyway. And this has been known from the studies over a decade ago. Scott comes out with this vid and everyone is treating this like new info and writing off MK now lol. You're not the only one, I'm seeing it at several boards. Scott is smart but I'm going to have to disagree with him BIG TIME on this one. And with these gh secretagogues and peptides, YOU are the biggest factor, the user cuz it depends on your own glands pumping out the actual hormone, they are initiators of the process of GH production.

Quick answer: IGF

This study is from 1998, it shows just how anabolic MK677 is.

**broken link removed**
 
So, what are you trying to say Conc?

Dr. Scott says mk677 is worthless and doing more harm than good?

What "I said" was I'm concerned about what the active ingredient is that makes for all the weight gain and BP issues. I then referred to a pod cast I listened to. Elvia saying because I have done steroid stacks that are aggressive has ZERO barring on my concerns about MK677. I'm not qualified to speak on the merits of this drug. But (like you) I'm open to listening to other much more qualified views.

BTW: Dr Scottt, didn't say it was doing more harm than good. If I some how implied that I didn't mean too. The long and short was that after a week of the MK677 telling your body to release more GH the body stops responding to the signal and the blood panels reflected this. Like I said, maybe he is DEAD WRONG? But I feel he is well qualified to speak on products and issues of this type. I choose to believe him.

Ya know there are endless clinical reports on BCAA's right. Well look how that product tubed now. JM,JP and the list goes on saying it's a waist of money now for BBing. <-----Don't kill the messenger. :)
 
Someone may have addressed this already, but if I recall correctly, Scott stated that after one week of using MK that GH production continues, but only at about 50% of what it was...and it stays there long-term.

Some guys might think a 50% decrease is a lot and think to themselves "why should I continue using it if it drops 50%?" Well, the thing is that MK produces such a huge increase in GH during the first week that a 50% reduction still leaves the person with quite a bit of GH being produced.

I would be willing to bet that 25 mg of MK per day, during the first week of use when sensitivity is at its peak, results in GH increases rivaling 7-8 iu of GH per day (on average), and in some cases probably even more. The results certainly indicate that. Look at what most guys gain during their first 7 days of MK when using 25 mg/day--like 6-12 lbs of bodyweight, on average. I've seen some guys gain 18 pounds in 2 weeks...and their increase in muscle fullness was mind-blowing. It rivaled Anadrol or even SD.

The first time I used MK I gained 10 pounds in 7 days...and probably 8-9 pounds of that went right into my muscles. I looked noticeably bigger. I was like "holy shit does this stuff work crazy good". I get absolutely no negative side effects from it. My appetite blows up, but I love that.


Hey , if I misunderstood the guy. MY BAD! The last thing I want to do is mislead members about products. If I misunderstood him, I'll own it!
 
What "I said" was I'm concerned about what the active ingredient is that makes for all the weight gain and BP issues. I then referred to a pod cast I listened to. Elvia saying because I have done steroid stacks that are aggressive has ZERO barring on my concerns about MK677. I'm not qualified to speak on the merits of this drug. But (like you) I'm open to listening to other much more qualified views.

BTW: Dr Scottt, didn't say it was doing more harm than good. If I some how implied that I didn't mean too. The long and short was that after a week of the MK677 telling your body to release more GH the body stops responding to the signal and the blood panels reflected this. Like I said, maybe he is DEAD WRONG? But I feel he is well qualified to speak on products and issues of this type. I choose to believe him.

Ya know there are endless clinical reports on BCAA's right. Well look how that product tubed now. JM,JP and the list goes on saying it's a waist of money now for BBing. <-----Don't kill the messenger. :)
Problem is how are they even testing GH serums on MK677? It's impossible to know when a pulse will occur. Something like 12-14 pulses happen in a 24hr period from what I read but no clue when they will happen really. This is why igf serums should be used to gauge effectiveness.
 
You certainly shouldn't, CG, as you should never follow blindy someone's words, no matter how bright you think that person is... no doc is God, as proven by the COUNTLESS medical errors/cases of malpractice happening all the time and sending people to the graveyard much sooner they'd have hoped... :(:cool:

Elvia meant well in his post, he definitely didn't want to offend you. :) And I don't either! ;)

MY bad then. I did take every word as being etched in stone. I have a ton of respect for him and it never ever crossed my mind to question him on a subject I'm so naive.


Look let me just take this back now. I'm really uncomfortable with creating this kind of conversation with Dr Stevenson not being involved. At this point IM SURE I MUST HAVE MISUNDERSTOOD HIM. There is no way he's this far off point. I think that's a stretch. What I will add is the placebo comment is posted in his open forum that I'm a paying member of. I don't think it would be appropriate to copy and paste it from there.

I don't feel attacked by you or Anyone else :). But I don't think the "loads" comment was needed to make a point.
 
Hey , if I misunderstood the guy. MY BAD! The last thing I want to do is mislead members about products. If I misunderstood him, I'll own it!

I think he posted right here on this board--just a few days agpo--that MK did indeed continue secreting GH after one week, but only at about 50% of the rate.

I think a lot of people thought he was saying that MK stopped working after one week, but if I read correctly, that's not what he said, which is why he clarified it here.

I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure I read it correctly.

Aside from that, studies do show that MK elevates GH and IGF-1 levels long-term...at least 2 years (I don;t think any of the studies went longer than that).

I am not aware of any studies that show it stops working after 1 week.
 
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All kidding aside. The question I asked was what the hell is at work making all these huge gains. I'm having a hard time with just the hunger increase. I've seen a few guys at my gym literally get huge. Where does all the size come from? It isn't water retention moving the added weight they lift.
 
All kidding aside. The question I asked was what the hell is at work making all these huge gains. I'm having a hard time with just the hunger increase. I've seen a few guys at my gym literally get huge. Where does all the size come from? It isn't water retention moving the added weight they lift.

I think it was just a misinterpretation of what I meant. Everyone has different views on what they put into their body. I was literally just messing about as for me MK is like hgh and not something I would consider very dangerous. But I 100% get if you feel filling your system with water could be bad for your health it's best to be avoided.

I should have checked out the podcast as I just took your post as that's exactly what he meant but from what Mike posted he was just referring to one of it's actions. Truth be told there are that many podcasts and you-tube channels these days I haven't the time to listen to them all.

I mentioned IGF-1 in one of my first posts. Mike, Rambo and JJ have gone into more details. I think just like with everything we take there will always be unknown mechamisms at play. As you state it's definitely not just due to an increased appetite or increased size/strength moving more weight over time.

Mike posted about the sharp increase in hgh and that will be a major reason for the water retention and rapid increase in fullness/size. Levels drop off but they are still elevated. On top of that as Rambo and JJ have posted IGF-1 levels continue to rise over time. All in all it's been shown to have good effects for very long periods. The longest study I have seen was 2 years but there are also guys on this forum who have used it for over 1 year straight as well.

I always say to people if you're the type who doesn't want to fill up with water it's not the best thing for you. Although in my experience if you keep the dose sensible (10-12.5mg) most of the water goes inside the muscles and the fullness is fantastic. If no bad sides are experienced it's the perfect compliment to a bulking cycle imo.

Blood pressure is a concern so should be monitored (as should all blood markers). As I have already posted I can't even use the stuff for more than a few weeks most times without needing to come off as it destroys my energy levels. You have to use it to know how you respond but it's definitely not for some people.
 
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Ya know there are endless clinical reports on BCAA's right. Well look how that product tubed now. JM,JP and the list goes on saying it's a waist of money now for BBing. <-----Don't kill the messenger. :)

This is nothing to do with the thread or anyone mentioned but generally as Phidias posted I would never listen to one guy and take everything they state as the truth. JM an JP are 2 of the best in this industry.

You make an interesting point though. Before I write this I want to say the reason those 2 coaches are so good is they will evolve and if they were wrong in the past learn a better way and become a better coach for it. Guys who are arrogant tend to not like to be wrong and won't accept being wrong and tend to get stuck in their own/old ways.

My point I recall one of those guys years back praising BCAA's as most people did. How they were great and even wrote an ariticle on them. Knowledge continues to improve over time as we learn more about everything. So I would never just blindly follow 1 persons view point especially if they had never used x product.

Incidentally just in my opipion EAA's are miles better but BCAA's can still be useful if taken in between (or with) meals were you consumed a full spectrum of aminos acids.
 
All kidding aside. The question I asked was what the hell is at work making all these huge gains. I'm having a hard time with just the hunger increase. I've seen a few guys at my gym literally get huge. Where does all the size come from? It isn't water retention moving the added weight they lift.
Nitrogen retention and IGF are the two reasons in my opinion. I mean even my hands and feet swell up, and no BP issues for me ever with anything, even grams of gear so thats not the cause. My foot size gas grown an entire size bro. I never used enough exogenous GH to do this, I mainly used MK677 over the years and other peps. When I got off all of them my shoes started fitting slightly loose but I'm still a size bigger then before using them.
 
If you don't trust the gh out there these day(there are several proven GH sponsors on here I would suggest) then why not run the mk, throw in some ghrp and gnrh to boost it a bit more, and then run the insulin alongside? Throw ina bit more NPP and a good oral. And get those calories up there. At 5'9'' and 225 on stage that is a very muscular person and its gonna take some extreme effort to get some extreme results
 
If you don't trust the gh out there these day(there are several proven GH sponsors on here I would suggest) then why not run the mk, throw in some ghrp and gnrh to boost it a bit more, and then run the insulin alongside? Throw ina bit more NPP and a good oral. And get those calories up there. At 5'9'' and 225 on stage that is a very muscular person and its gonna take some extreme effort to get some extreme results

Empty your inbox. You won the recipe contest.
 
If you don't trust the gh out there these day(there are several proven GH sponsors on here I would suggest) then why not run the mk, throw in some ghrp and gnrh to boost it a bit more, and then run the insulin alongside? Throw ina bit more NPP and a good oral. And get those calories up there. At 5'9'' and 225 on stage that is a very muscular person and its gonna take some extreme effort to get some extreme results

Even the peps are sometimes shit too. Too many con men about. I've tried a few and never felt much except a lot of water gain. I'm in the uk so they've been uk companies.

I've upped my calories this past week to 4700. I'm 247 this morning. That's on test, npp and mk 677 only.
 
Even the peps are sometimes shit too. Too many con men about. I've tried a few and never felt much except a lot of water gain. I'm in the uk so they've been uk companies.

I've upped my calories this past week to 4700. I'm 247 this morning. That's on test, npp and mk 677 only.

You don't trust the company you get your MK from to buy peps from as well? And if your getting water weight from peps....their probably working. But results fro these things are generally dependent on time. I don't notice much from gh peps while I running them....but after 4-5 months on them consistently my body definitely takes on a different look
 
Even the peps are sometimes shit too. Too many con men about. I've tried a few and never felt much except a lot of water gain. I'm in the uk so they've been uk companies.

I've upped my calories this past week to 4700. I'm 247 this morning. That's on test, npp and mk 677 only.

Did you use a pep company for your mk-677 or did you order it from a supp company in the UK? I have used a few brands from the UK. They were all real. Every mk I have used has been good with little difference between the brands. Of course peps could be shit at times and fake etc. But I think many times guys are not consistent enough. Plus it's not like they transform you very quickly (aside from high dosed lr3 imo) but the likes of ghrp-2 and hexarelin can be extremely effective. But you are talking one big spike of gh per injection that doesn't last long so they need to be dosed consistently over a long period to see them shine.

No need for studies but there have been some extremely impressive human studies done on certain GHRP's over the years. MK-677 due to it's long acting nature and the multiple (approx 12) pulses it creates per day is the quick go to for a GHRP. But for guys like me who can't cope with the side effects I am now looking back to the others I have used with good results in the past. The reason I didn't like using most GHRP's is because I can be quite lazy and injecting myself (even easy slin pins injs) used to annoy me 3-4 times daily. CJC-DAC is great as I can dose that twice weekly it's just when I have to add a GHRP into the mix :eek:

Obviously anyone who can use hgh in the pursuit of size just go with that. MK-677 is another great tool as well. You could even rotate or combine them. They are generally the most effective gh boosters to use but for anyone who can't deal with the side effects but want a boost in hgh/igf-1 there are other options.
 

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