NO GRAINS - Fruits and vegetables main carb sources. Input?

[ugadawg91]

Anyone give up grains altogether for an extended period of time or forever?

 

[GettingBackIn]

There are several of us on here with chrones or colitis who have gone grain free. I've been grain free for close to ten years. Best thing I ever did, but I wouldn't have tried it if I wasn't forced to.

 

[machomadness22]

Pretty much a paleo style diet, I did a paleo diet and crossfit a long time ago it took some
Adjusting but I loved it I had tremendous fat loss

 

[newbadgenes]

UC colitis here. I feel better with no grains too. I do carb load one day every 5 days to replenish glycogen levels and make some gains. Seems to work for me. I just deal with the big gut that one day, even if its all gluten free.

 

[69cyclerider]

I was grain free ( paleo ) while I was racing road bikes in order to keep my weight at race levels which was 160-165lbs. Always felt great while on it and I still had plenty of endurance also.

 

[johnjuanb1]

I would go nuts without my grains. I tried Tuna and fruit. I lasted 3 days before I felt too shitty to go on. My stomach was super flat but so were my muscles.

 

[69cyclerider]

I would go nuts without my grains. I tried Tuna and fruit. I lasted 3 days before I felt too shitty to go on. My stomach was super flat but so were my muscles.

It takes about 2 weeks for the body to adjust, but it will adjust. I did feel better without the grains in my diet.

 

[Mike Arnold]

For bodybuilding--horrible idea. Complex carbs, such as those derived from grains, tubers, or legumes, are essential to maximizing muscle growth. They also provide benefits in about a dozen other areas that are beneficial to bodybuilders.

If you don't have to go "grain-free", don't. However, I DO advise eliminating refined carbs in favor of unrefined carbs. Refined carbs, such as high molecular weight carbs, can be beneficial when consumed at certain times, such as intra-workout, but for the most part, unless there is a good reason to consume them, they should not be part of your diet.

The large majority of a bodybuilder's complex carb intake should come from unrefined carbohydrates, such as whole-grains (wild rice, barley, oats, etc), tubers (white potatoes, sweet potatoes, and other root vegetables) and legumes (beans, peas, etc).

Unfortunately, most bodybuilders consume far more refined carbs than unrefined ones, opting for foods such as white rice. White rice is basically like white bread--completely stripped of not only its nutrients, but also of its natural fiber content, which the overwhelming majority of bodybuilders are deficient in.

Tubers and legumes are usually consumed in their unrefined form, as they lack the 3-layer make-up characteristic of grains. However, grains, which just so happen to be the most popular source of complex carbs for bodybuilders, are most often consumed in refined form.

Grains are composed of 3 components--the bran, germ, and endosperm. The bran is the outer shell, which contains most of the fiber, as well as some vitamins, mineral, and phytonutrients. The germ is the part of the grain that grow into a plant when germinated. It contains the vast majority of the grain's nutrients, including vitamins, minerals, phytonutrients, fatty acids, and various aminos acids. It is BY FAR the most beneficial part of the grain. The endosperm is the part of the grain which the germ uses as an energy source, to help it grow into a plant post-germination. It is sparse in nutrients, but loaded with calories in the form of complex carbs. Using rice as an example, the endosperm would be the "white" part of the rice. The endosperm comprises about 70-90% of the grains weight, depending on the type of grain.

Refined grains, such as white rice , contain ONLY the endosperm. It is has been completely raped of the bran and germ, leaving nothing but a source of calories. By consuming only the endosperm, the individual is not only going to miss out on a ton of potential benefits, but it also has negative effects on whole-body health.

The benefits of whole grains are numerous. There are a lot of excuses provided by some bodybuilders, as to why they choose to consume refined grains instead of refined versions. The most common is that "they are easier to digest". Don't confuse this with digestive health, as whole-grains are far superior in terms of digestive health than refined grains. Easier to digest should be properly interpreted as "quicker to digest", nothing more, and in most cases, this is actually a bad thing.

The bottom line is that a bodybuilder should never eliminate unrefined carbs from his diet, unless he needs to. The optimal amount a bodybuilder should include in his diet can vary enormously, but eliminating them completely is a bad idea.

Regarding fruit and vegetable intake, this is also an area that the typical bodybuilder severely neglects. Most bodybuilders should be consuming far, far more of these foods than they do. Failing to do so will have significant negative effects on health and overall functioning. There is a lot to say on both of these subjects, but this post is already getting too long and off-topic, so I am going to stop here.

 

[juiceseeker]

^^^^awesome post

 

[spartan995]

UC here as well. I cut out a lot of complex carbs that caused bloat. I do continue to eat ezekiel bread, cream of wheat, and all bran as my main carb sources. I just switched to them this past week. I throw in fruit with my cream of wheat, typically bananas and blueberries. I have been searching for frozen papaya but cannot find any. Since I switched I am a lot less bloated. my bowel movements are still irregular, but oh well.

@Mike Arnold - what are your thoughts on "gut health" supplements such as fennel seeds, aloe vera juice ? I have been reading about how they are great for digestion.

 

[thumper08]

I was in the best shape of life sticking to a grain free lifestyle. Never felt flat but I wasn't shredded either. I maintained athleticism while looking pretty damn good. I could see how following a strick paleo lifestyle wouldn't be optimal for a serious bodybuilder.

 

[Ocean cool]

I've tried swathing all my carbs source from rice, potatoes, oatmeal to fruits.

The first two weeks, i saw a tremendous drop in water retention. I was looking drier and leaner. The following weeks, i just got leaner and leaner. All i ate was fruits.

 

[control]

I need lots of carbs to build any muscle. I find that potatoes and oatmeal work well with my body. Pasta, rice, bread, all mess up my digestive system (except Ezekiel bread)

 

[Mike Arnold]

I was in the best shape of life sticking to a grain free lifestyle. Never felt flat but I wasn't shredded either. I maintained athleticism while looking pretty damn good. I could see how following a strick paleo lifestyle wouldn't be optimal for a serious bodybuilder.

I've tried swathing all my carbs source from rice, potatoes, oatmeal to fruits.

The first two weeks, i saw a tremendous drop in water retention. I was looking drier and leaner. The following weeks, i just got leaner and leaner. All i ate was fruits.

Of course you will get leaner when cutting out all your grains. Not only do most people end up consuming significantly fewer calories when following a gran-free diet, but it also causes insulin levels to plummet, making it easier to lose fat.

But when it comes to bodybuilding, eating fruits and vegetables as one's sole carb source is never going to allow one to reach their full growth potential--not even close. Even contest condition will be comprised, as maximum muscle fullness, which can never be obtained with fruits & vegetables alone, is vital to looking as hard, dense, and dry as possible.

 

[Mike Arnold]

In reference to my prior comment, about muscle fullness being vital to looking as "dry" as possible, I will explain below--for those bodybuilders who aren't yet aware.

When looking at a bodybuilder onstage who appears to be holding water, half the time he is not actually holding water at all, but is simply flat. Flat muscles don't push up against the skin, so they lose that hard, tight, detailed look. This can be misinterpreted for sub-q water retention. Having a flat muscle is like a baggy short sleeve shirt covering a muscular, ripped arm. No matter how detailed the muscle may be, if it isn't pressing tight up against the shirt sleeve, you aren't going to be able to see much. On the other hand, if that same man wears a shirt with a skin-tight sleeve, you are going to be able to see a whole lot more detail, even the shape of his arm and maybe even a few veins

The same thing happens when a muscle is full--it presses tight up against the underside of the skin, making it easier to see all the details beneath. If the muscle is flat, many of those details are no longer visible.

If someone doesn't lose any fullness by switching over to a diet in which fruits & vegetables are their only carb source, then that means they were already flat. It is impossible to maintain full glycogen stores when following such a diet, so the only way someone would maintain an equal level of fullness is if they weren't very full to begin with.

This also means that the person wasn't following a bodybuilding diet, as bodybuilders understand the importance of muscle fullness during a growth phase. While growth is certainly possible when flat, it is 10X easier when full. I always tell clients that if they want to gain muscle as quickly as possible, they need to stay full. As soon as you go flat (which can happen within just a few hours when dealing with advanced bodybuilders), your chances of growing diminish significantly.

 

[Ocean cool]

Do u have any references that fruits source may not be the best for bodybuilding?

Of course you will get leaner when cutting out all your grains. Not only do most people end up consuming significantly fewer calories when following a gran-free diet, but it also causes insulin levels to plummet, making it easier to lose fat.

But when it comes to bodybuilding, eating fruits and vegetables as one's sole carb source is never going to allow one to reach their full growth potential--not even close. Even contest condition will be comprised, as maximum muscle fullness, which can never be obtained with fruits & vegetables alone, is vital to looking as hard, dense, and dry as possible.

 

[JG_0808]

For bodybuilding--horrible idea. Complex carbs, such as those derived from grains, tubers, or legumes, are essential to maximizing muscle growth. They also provide benefits in about a dozen other areas that are beneficial to bodybuilders.

If you don't have to go "grain-free", don't. However, I DO advise eliminating refined carbs in favor of unrefined carbs. Refined carbs, such as high molecular weight carbs, can be beneficial when consumed at certain times, such as intra-workout, but for the most part, unless there is a good reason to consume them, they should not be part of your diet.

The large majority of a bodybuilder's complex carb intake should come from unrefined carbohydrates, such as whole-grains (wild rice, barley, oats, etc), tubers (white potatoes, sweet potatoes, and other root vegetables) and legumes (beans, peas, etc).

Unfortunately, most bodybuilders consume far more refined carbs than unrefined ones, opting for foods such as white rice. White rice is basically like white bread--completely stripped of not only its nutrients, but also of its natural fiber content, which the overwhelming majority of bodybuilders are deficient in.

Tubers and legumes are usually consumed in their unrefined form, as they lack the 3-layer make-up characteristic of grains. However, grains, which just so happen to be the most popular source of complex carbs for bodybuilders, are most often consumed in refined form.

Grains are composed of 3 components--the bran, germ, and endosperm. The bran is the outer shell, which contains most of the fiber, as well as some vitamins, mineral, and phytonutrients. The germ is the part of the grain that grow into a plant when germinated. It contains the vast majority of the grain's nutrients, including vitamins, minerals, phytonutrients, fatty acids, and various aminos acids. It is BY FAR the most beneficial part of the grain. The endosperm is the part of the grain which the germ uses as an energy source, to help it grow into a plant post-germination. It is sparse in nutrients, but loaded with calories in the form of complex carbs. Using rice as an example, the endosperm would be the "white" part of the rice. The endosperm comprises about 70-90% of the grains weight, depending on the type of grain.

Refined grains, such as white rice , contain ONLY the endosperm. It is has been completely raped of the bran and germ, leaving nothing but a source of calories. By consuming only the endosperm, the individual is not only going to miss out on a ton of potential benefits, but it also has negative effects on whole-body health.

The benefits of whole grains are numerous. There are a lot of excuses provided by some bodybuilders, as to why they choose to consume refined grains instead of refined versions. The most common is that "they are easier to digest". Don't confuse this with digestive health, as whole-grains are far superior in terms of digestive health than refined grains. Easier to digest should be properly interpreted as "quicker to digest", nothing more, and in most cases, this is actually a bad thing.

The bottom line is that a bodybuilder should never eliminate unrefined carbs from his diet, unless he needs to. The optimal amount a bodybuilder should include in his diet can vary enormously, but eliminating them completely is a bad idea.

Regarding fruit and vegetable intake, this is also an area that the typical bodybuilder severely neglects. Most bodybuilders should be consuming far, far more of these foods than they do. Failing to do so will have significant negative effects on health and overall functioning. There is a lot to say on both of these subjects, but this post is already getting too long and off-topic, so I am going to stop here.

Very true however if you are looking to carbs to get your micro-nutrients and vitamins/minerals you are in trouble.

There are much better sources that contain 10x the amounts in any carbs such as red meat, eggs etc.

Also the nutrient profile for brown vs white rice is not too different.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Do u have any references that fruits source may not be the best for bodybuilding?

Are you asking me if I have any references that prove eating ONLY fruit as a carb source is not best for recovery, building muscle, maximizing muscle fullness, looking one's best onstage, etc, etc, etc?

Yes, every bodybuilder who has ever lived.

Without trying to sound like a smart-ass, if someone is sincerely asking if fruit alone is able to provide maximum benefit every area that is of value to a bodybuilder, then they know very, very, VERY little about bodybuilding nutrition, or even how the human body works.

In truth, this question is similar to asking if steroids are necessary for becoming the best bodybuilder one can be. No one asks that because the answer is well known to everyone with even the slightest knowledge of what these drugs are. Asking if fruit alone, as one's sole carb source, is able to provide optimal bodybuilding benefits, is really no different. Its very elementary.

Complex carbs, and plenty of them, are absolutely essential to maximizing one's bodybuilding progress, in almost every area. Eating nothing but sugar (fruit) would have a multitude of significant, negative effects.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Very true however if you are looking to carbs to get your micro-nutrients and vitamins/minerals you are in trouble.
Of course, this is basic knowledge.


There are much better sources that contain 10x the amounts in any carbs such as red meat, eggs etc.
Amounts of what?

Also the nutrient profile for brown vs white rice is not too different.
Not too different? Come on, man. Do some research on the differences between unrefined and white rice. Your statement is just like saying white bread is no different than whole-wheat bread, or whole-wheat pancakes are no different than white flour pancakes, or any other food which has both a refined and unrefined version. You do realize that white rice has had both the germ and bran removed, right? Even when failing to take into consideration the differences in micro-phyto nutrients, the macro-nutrients profile is also different. Do some research into what the rice germ contains, and germs in genera;. Even the bran has nutrients not found in the endosperm, including basically all of the fiber. Even if the only difference between the two was fiber content, that alone would drastically change the nutrient profile, but the differences go so much deeper than that, especially it terms of micro-phyto nutrients. Even their effects on blood sugar regulation (which impacts the entire body in numerous ways) are different. I am actually having a hard time believing you think there isn't any meaningful difference between whole-grain rice and refined rice. Please don't tell me you're using nutrient labels on the side of the box for comparison.

.....

 

[Stewie]

You may find this interesting, Mike.

Living With Phytic Acid - Weston A Price