No response to AAS?

[Pusher]

Can you say who the sponsor was? The OP said he was using VIP Anabolics. I know Dante recommends them so I think they have a good rep. I'm currently using their tren, as mentioned the results aren't anything spectacular but that may just be an issue with me rather than the gear.

I will say the sides were more noticeable on MLG tren, mostly just waking up much earlier than I usually do, but that was about it. Right now my main side is lethargy...I took a 1.5 hour nap yesterday, slept 8 hours last night, and am tired as hell right now.

It was't VIP... I'll refrain from saying who it was/is in the open forum, but he does have 3 Initials. But his tren was ok, not as good mg per mg as the tren i make/made from fina (no more fina, hence my need to get tren from a source), but his test was no bueno.

 

[smackthatAAS]

Relevant Labs

Some bloodwork I thought had something to do with my lack off results. In all honesty I thought there may be some correlation here that I am just missing...

*This is skewed bc I was taking test at the time...
morning
7.4 ng/ml range 3.7-9.5
noon
1.7 ng/ml range 1.2-3.0
evening
0.9 ng/ml range 0.6-1.9
night
0.5 ng/ml range 0.4-1.0

Four of five months later I got another Dirunal cortisol kit done and the results came back with the morning and noon below the bottom range, evening a little high, and night above range.

Thyroid
t4 total 2.4 4.5-12
t4 free 0.5 1-2.4
t3 free 2 2.3-4.2
t3 total 56 76-181
reverse t3 11 11-32

Test 300-1100 >1500
*My test was consistently around 500-600 with the same reference range prior.
Didnt get SHBG tested at the time but did end the cycle w/30mg winny ED
Didnt get E2 tested at the time but was taking 2.5mg Adex E3D

 

[smackthatAAS]

Couldnt edit but just realized RT3 should have been 37 11-32

 

[Big D84]

Sounds like you are one of the guys who jump on their first cycle without much research and expect a magical 50lb gain in bodyweight. As stated by someone earlier, AAS are just a small piece of the puzzle. Optimum results cannot be had unless all other pieces are in place. Maybe start by listing an outline of your daily nutrition as well as your training program. You are doing something wrong.

Couldn't have been said any better^^ Diet(most important) then training, and enough rest. Plus the dosage you ran is way too high for a first timer. Most can do a test only cycle of like 400-500mg week their first time and have damn good results with the above done properly.

 

[Stiffy]

Are you taking any other medications? Finasteride (propecia or proscar) will drastically reduce gains. I've experienced this personally. DHT is a much more potent muscle builder than testosterone. If that's not it, I would speculate diet or training being the culprit next. You are not a steroid non responder, that is just stupid.

 

[osiris]

So in your opinion what do you think, in terms of an approximate percentage, does each factor contribute to the success of a users first cycle? Example:
Diet- 50%
Training- 25%
Rest- 15%
AAS-10%
I believe that was the order you implied. Obviously you would be approximating but I'm just curious what you think agood recipe for success would be for a first timer.

Diet, training and rest are easy. Hormones play a much larger role than 10% .....you are as big as your dose. Lets not kid ourselves

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Ehren]

No problem, I'm watching too haha.

I didnt get any scientifically based BF testing, just pictures, measurements and scale weight which went unchanged.

Taking your info at face value (AAS Dose, Training hard and eating maintenence), I'd say it's a combination of factors;

Diet: IMO, maybe maintenance cals are not enough to grow from, FOR YOU. Where did you get 2300 as the number? Unless you're eating when you're hungry, you're only guessing. Test will redirect more nutrients to muscle than to fat for example, but "maintenance" is just that.

Gear underdosed somewhat: It varies, but I get levels of 1500 on about 250 Test a week. On 125 a week (TRT) I get upper 800's.

Maybe overtraining, if there was not enough food to put on new muscle or recover.

If you're eating low cals, any gear is just gonna prevent losing muscle. I know from experience on many a cutting cycle...raise the dose, lower the cals and fat comes off, but no new muscle gets added until ya put in the cals/protein to add it. Just my experience. And no fat comes off (for me) unless some cardio is happening.

Sorry about your cycle, Bro. I know it can be disappointing when you miss a step. I'd do a cycle first with more cals, to make sure you know how much it takes to put on some mass at a good rate without getting too fat, when on AAS. THEN you know what number to reduce from for a recomp.

 

[tri-terror]

Who is this duff and where did he come from? I like his style.

 

[pj250]

with what you took you still should have gained something..could your dvds be fake? or very under dosed? have blood work done to check your test levels

 

[ronnieron]

IMO opinion gear plays a much larger role than 10%, assuming genetics and training were the same, a guy on a first cycle and a shitty diet would yield much better results than a guy who trained natty but ate a clean bodybuilder type diet. This is also assuming yrs of trainning were equal as well.

 

[Elvia1023]

Gear plays 100%. Fact is without it you will never be that big ripped person you wanna be (just an example). I always say everything is 100%... so training is 100%, diet 100% etc. It's impossible to put things into a general percentage as without one you would likely fail. But lets not kid ourselves gear is 100% and without it most on here would be 160-200 pounds and toned. Percentages mean nothing. Although I state the above that doesn't mean I don't put diet and training first. Again though lets be real the fundamental reason you see guys getting bigger and leaner on here through the years is because they upped their dose.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

Gear plays 100%. Fact is without it you will never be that big ripped person you wanna be (just an example). I always say everything is 100%... so training is 100%, diet 100% etc. It's impossible to put things into a general percentage as without one you would likely fail. But lets not kid ourselves gear is 100% and without it most on here would be 160-200 pounds and toned. Percentages mean nothing. Although I state the above that doesn't mean I don't put diet and training first. Again though lets be real the fundamental reason you see guys getting bigger and leaner on here through the years is because they upped their dose.

Excellent post. I don't get these guys who say AAS doesn't contribute that much. It's as if they want to prove that the AAS hasn't helped them that much and they want to show that it's mostly their diet and training. Which is bullshit. As you mentioned getting above 200lb naturally while still being lean is hard for most people. Give me 2 twins, 1 who just eats what he wants and trains with an average routine but is on 1g of gear and he will blow away the 2nd one who has his diet and training mapped out by professional coaches but is natural.

Some of the posts in here and PMs I've gotten are making me wonder about proper dosing though. The OP mentioned VIP but unfortunately with the LabCorp test can't really see what his T levels are, but I'm wondering how many of us are getting significantly underdosed gear. And unfortunately you can't get any real indication of dosing of AAS besides Testosterone in blood work.

 

[pesty4077]

Well, I wasn't going to comment, but I will state one thing first, not all AAS that is made is the same strength or good. No names mentioned But what i really noticed is this, I think you can grow with out anything if you change things. You might have a fast metabolism, you think if that? How any one can grow off 2300 calories is beyond me. Plus, you train 6 days a week? I will take Dante's side on this, if you don't eat to grow, you will not. Keep in mind, measuring gains by weighing yourself can be misleading too. Sometimes you won't put on 1 pound and look like a different person through Diet.

I personally think you are not eating enough calories and over training. Go see Big A's thread for 3 days a week and start eating 2 grams of protein, 2 grams of carbs, and 1 gram of healthy fats for every pound you weigh and tell me if you don't grow. If you are worry about BF, I don't know what to tell you. You are not going to put on a lot of muscle without some fat. I would also personally watch taking estrogen blockers, at 500 mg, why would you need much? Taking too much can make you tired, ache and decrease gains.

 

[Big D84]

So in your opinion what do you think, in terms of an approximate percentage, does each factor contribute to the success of a users first cycle? Example:
Diet- 50%
Training- 25%
Rest- 15%
AAS-10%
I believe that was the order you implied. Obviously you would be approximating but I'm just curious what you think agood recipe for success would be for a first timer.

I dont think we should put an exact percentage on everything cause its all important when done properly. I wouldnt recommend a first timer taking a experienced/veteran user dosage of gear. Its best to start with a lower dosage like I mentioned before; 400-500mg week of test and if you so desire add a small dose of another compound to stack. Then see how your body reacts and make adjustments accordingly. Its like the old saying, you are what you eat, Diet is a huge factor in getting you the results you want; Wont grow if you dont eat. Now I'm not saying that if you take more and more aas that you wont gain cause you will. The more you take the more you will gain, but I personally would rather take a moderate cycle and tweek on the above to get optimal results.

 

[Elvia1023]

Well since were talking about a first timer I would say your percentages are pretty close. I wouldnt recommend a first timer taking a experienced/veteran user dosage of gear. Its best to start with a lower dosage like I mentioned before; 400-500mg week of test and if you so desire add a small dose of another compound to stack. Then see how your body reacts and make adjustments accordingly. Its like the old saying, you are what you eat, Diet is a huge factor in getting you the results you want. Now I'm not saying the more aas you take the more you will gain. The more you take the more you will gain, but I personally would rather take a moderate cycle and tweek on the above to get optimal results.

I find this post strange as all the things you write are spot on but then you think gear contibutes to 10% of a first cycle. Are you having a laugh? Don't get me wrong the diet and training is everything mentality is spot on and they are what everyone should be putting their efforts into. But to think x persons gains/success are 10% gear is just deluded. Put that person on the same training and diet without the aas and see where they are in 12 weeks. Now do it again and add the 500mg test and see where they are... multiple times better off imo.

 

[pj250]

im 6f2in been off and on for over 10 years before i started i was 176lbs now im 235lbs when im off i go down to 207 or 210 im not a big eater diet helps of course but your body has a way of gettin what it needs if he took all thjat with no gains then that was nothin but oil in the bottle no active stuff....is it ok to ask what brand of dvds did you use??

 

[Elvia1023]

Just something I have thought recently (just me rambling on )... before I mention it I am 100% training and diet. I have so much room to improve and all the progress I plan to make will be a result of excellent diet, training and effective supplementation. I do think these days everything is drugs and it is wrong. So many just want to take a drug to look a certain way and put it above training and nutrition.

Although I write the above I see quite alot of people who down play the role of aas in gains. I understand they have a different mentality and a better one imo. But it's like it's a competition who can take he lowest dose. Maybe they want to set a good example too and don't want newbies thinking it is all drugs. But alot of people have this mentality and down play the role of aas yet take huge amounts themselves or have done to achieve their physique. I just find it strange at times. I am not gonna give specifics. It's like they are trying to convince themselves all their hard work in the gym and through diet accounts for 90% of their gains... it doesn't.

Whilst we should all try and be healthy and smart with our choices let's not fool ourselves in thinking the drugs comes last on the list and are a supplement to our diet and training. Fact is this is an unhealthy path to follow whatever way you look at it. I don't even mean competing just trying to be big and ripped like most of us want.

I hope to look very impressive in a few years but I can safely say one of the main reasons for that will be more drugs. It still doesn't mean I won't put 100% into diet and training and be extremely meticulous in all areas. But gear is just as important as anything else.

 

[Big D84]

I find this post strange as all the things you write are spot on but then you think gear contibutes to 10% of a first cycle. Are you having a laugh? Don't get me wrong the diet and training is everything mentality is spot on and they are what everyone should be putting their efforts into. But to think x persons gains/success are 10% gear is just deluded. Put that person on the same training and diet without the aas and see where they are in 12 weeks. Now do it again and add the 500mg test and see where they are... multiple times better off imo.

I actually had edited the percentage part of my post out after I thought on it. All I was trying to say is that I dont want a first timer just jumping into aas at high doses just cause they have the concept the more I take the more I grow. Were talking about a virgin to aas; someone who doesnt know how they will react. Just wanted to point out the key factors for a FIRST timer so they can be safe.

 

[Big D84]

Just something I have thought recently (just me rambling on )... before I mention it I am 100% training and diet. I have so much room to improve and all the progress I plan to make will be a result of excellent diet, training and effective supplementation. I do think these days everything is drugs and it is wrong. So many just want to take a drug to look a certain way and put it above training and nutrition.

Although I write the above I see quite alot of people who down play the role of aas in gains. I understand they have a different mentality and a better one imo. But it's like it's a competition who can take he lowest dose. Maybe they want to set a good example too and don't want newbies thinking it is all drugs. But alot of people have this mentality and down play the role of aas yet take huge amounts themselves or have done to achieve their physique. I just find it strange at times. I am not gonna give specifics. It's like they are trying to convince themselves all their hard work in the gym and through diet accounts for 90% of their gains... it doesn't.

Whilst we should all try and be healthy and smart with our choices let's not fool ourselves in thinking the drugs comes last on the list and are a supplement to our diet and training. Fact is this is an unhealthy path to follow whatever way you look at it. I don't even mean competing just trying to be big and ripped like most of us want.

I hope to look very impressive in a few years but I can safely say one of the main reasons for that will be more drugs. It still doesn't mean I won't put 100% into diet and training and be extremely meticulous in all areas. But gear is just as important as anything else.

Well said; and I agree 100%

 

[Elvia1023]

I actually had edited the percentage part of my post out after I thought on it. All I was trying to say is that I dont want a first timer just jumping into aas at high doses just cause they have the concept the more I take the more I grow. Were talking about a virgin to aas; someone who doesnt know how they will react. Just wanted to point out the key factors for a FIRST timer so they can be safe.

I agree... great post. I think an ideal first cycle is 400mg test... no need for anything else. Some of the 1st cycles I see on here are shocking. Start of low and gradually move up... make the mos of all growth phases. Although I also think if your gonna shut yourself down for the first time make it worthwhile so no 250mg test cycles in my advice... defo 4-500mg test. Next cycle add in 25mg dbol or up your test by 100mg. Next cycle up test by 100mg. Next add in 400mg deca. Slow but steady imo.