Nolvadex vs Arimidex for female bodybuilder

[Gunsmith]

I've always heard and see female competitors use Nolvadex the last 6-8 week of a contest prep to Help drop the last bit of fat off the glutes and thighs.

More recently (that I've been paying attention) ive noticed that more and more women are using Arimidex rather than Nolvadex and I'm wondering why.
Does it actually work better , is it safer , does it have less side effects.???

A female IFBB pro physique competitor I'm fortunate enough to talk to openly say her coach (highly recommend coach) has her use Arimidex the last 8 weeks at 1/2mg every third day. She says she thinks it's works a little better than Nolvadex but her diet and training have changed alot with this Coach as well so she can't say it the drug completely.

I'm also noticing that many female competitors are taking "Natural" estrogen blockers like DIM during the off season to help prevent any estrogen related fat gain , some say it works wonders , others say they can't really tell.

So for those that have dealt with this or know more of the science on blocking estrogen receptors vs lowering/stopping estrogen production what is your views on it.

(Posting in female forum as well , just way more traffic up here)

 

[tjitsu]

Great post, hope to get some knowledge without judgement.

 

[slesh]

Curious about this as well. A friend of mine competes in bikini and her coach has her take Nolvadex towards the end of prep. Never made sense to me as I always think of it for PCT.

 

[joos23]

I don't know a thing about female bodybuilding, but I've seen most coaches has them using nolvadex

 

[Bobik]

also curious. I've always only heard nolvadex. we plan Nolva even now before the bikini competition for girlfriend.

 

[Kaladryn]

First off, blocking E2 doesn't help someone drop fat. Hormonal fat distribution happens over a long period of time and partially blocking e2 probably isn't going to change striated glute conditioning.

Second, blocking E2 in PREmenopausal women is never close to complete. AIs cannot reach ovarian aromatase and increasing androgen levels generally increase estrogen production. Tamoxifen is only partially effective because it is a competitive inhibitor and there is so much E2 around. AIs are probably a better solution but can only reduce E2 by a percentage.

And even if you use nonaromatizing compounds, ovarian E2 production can increase. Additionally, E2 being too low for women will greatly increase side effects.

One final important note about women and AIs: aromatase turns testosterone into estradiol, women have relatively low testosterone levels and so don't need very much aromatase outside of the ovaries to produce it, microdosing is probably necessary. Note that most studies on AIs (and nolva for that matter) are on postmenopausal women, where all of their E2 is made from aromatase outside of the ovaries, thus it is completely different.

It would be really interesting to hear how experienced coaches who work with pre and postmenopausal women have to do things differently.

 

[Gunsmith]

It would be really interesting to hear how experienced coaches who work with pre and postmenopausal women have to do things differently.

I'd really like to see exactly what protocol Shelby uses on his females , they get reasonably "fluffy" off season and always come in incredibly lean for shows.
I've heard that he advises some very liberal drug doses on everything from anabolics to Clen , T3 and AIs which is apparent in some women but several local figure competitors that use him haven't masculinized nearly like some

 

[b-boy]

I'd really like to see exactly what protocol Shelby uses on his females , they get reasonably "fluffy" off season and always come in incredibly lean for shows.
I've heard that he advises some very liberal drug doses on everything from anabolics to Clen , T3 and AIs which is apparent in some women but several local figure competitors that use him haven't masculinized nearly like some

One reason why Shelby likes working with female competitors is because they can suffer and do whatever it takes to get peeled, most guys are so worried about stage weight and fullness and other silly shit that they are willing to do what it takes to get TRULY peeled. Women stick to the plan and execute!

Shelby or Scooby would be perfect guys to shed light on this subject.

 

[Liv2Grow]

First off, blocking E2 doesn't help someone drop fat. Hormonal fat distribution happens over a long period of time and partially blocking e2 probably isn't going to change striated glute conditioning.

Second, blocking E2 in PREmenopausal women is never close to complete. AIs cannot reach ovarian aromatase and increasing androgen levels generally increase estrogen production. Tamoxifen is only partially effective because it is a competitive inhibitor and there is so much E2 around. AIs are probably a better solution but can only reduce E2 by a percentage.

And even if you use nonaromatizing compounds, ovarian E2 production can increase. Additionally, E2 being too low for women will greatly increase side effects.

One final important note about women and AIs: aromatase turns testosterone into estradiol, women have relatively low testosterone levels and so don't need very much aromatase outside of the ovaries to produce it, microdosing is probably necessary. Note that most studies on AIs (and nolva for that matter) are on postmenopausal women, where all of their E2 is made from aromatase outside of the ovaries, thus it is completely different.

It would be really interesting to hear how experienced coaches who work with pre and postmenopausal women have to do things differently.

It all comes down to a females individual blood work. Yes, blood work is important for both males and females but I think it is crucial for females and deciding on the correct protocol. There is so much more to it than just E2 and if they are still menstruating, their hormonal environment is constantly changing during the course of their menstrual cycle. Progesterone can actually be really important to look at, especially if the female is estrogen dominant (balancing progesterone / bringing up progesterone can really help with fat loss). Birth control use is another thing that needs to be considered. Also, as a female gets leaner and deeper into prep, she will usually lose her period at some point (some much earlier than others). When this happens, their estrogen is usually very low so adding in Nolva or an AI is probably not really doing much and they are just getting leaner from the diet, cardio, and other drugs. Sure, it may help them lose some extra water and give the appearance of a sharper physique.

But yes, you need to look at pre & postmenopausal women differently. The majority of estrogen in a premenopausal females is from the ovaries so an AI is not going to really do much. This is why AIs (like Adex) are only prescribed to postmenopausal females with breast cancer. Premenpausal females get prescribed a SERM like nolva. Now, I guess this could change if the female is taking a high dose of test or other aromatizing AAS but usually in a contest prep environment this would not be the case. However, keeping in a TRUE female TRT dose of test can be a good idea (~7mg/week).

Typically, if the female is estrogen dominant & premeapausal than nolva can help lean out the estrogen dominant areas (lower body & triceps) but I would not add this in until they are lean everywhere else. Another great option is low dose proviron which can be used alone or in combo with nolva depending on the situation. Proviron has very minor AI character and can help "harden" a female physique without the harsh side effects of high androgenic AAS.

 

[Kaladryn]

I'd really like to see exactly what protocol Shelby uses on his females , they get reasonably "fluffy" off season and always come in incredibly lean for shows.
I've heard that he advises some very liberal drug doses on everything from anabolics to Clen , T3 and AIs which is apparent in some women but several local figure competitors that use him haven't masculinized nearly like some

I've worked with Shelby, his protocols are generally fairly conservative in my experience.

That info from Liv2Grow looks spot on.

 

[Bobik]

It all comes down to a females individual blood work. Yes, blood work is important for both males and females but I think it is crucial for females and deciding on the correct protocol. There is so much more to it than just E2 and if they are still menstruating, their hormonal environment is constantly changing during the course of their menstrual cycle. Progesterone can actually be really important to look at, especially if the female is estrogen dominant (balancing progesterone / bringing up progesterone can really help with fat loss). Birth control use is another thing that needs to be considered. Also, as a female gets leaner and deeper into prep, she will usually lose her period at some point (some much earlier than others). When this happens, their estrogen is usually very low so adding in Nolva or an AI is probably not really doing much and they are just getting leaner from the diet, cardio, and other drugs. Sure, it may help them lose some extra water and give the appearance of a sharper physique.

But yes, you need to look at pre & postmenopausal women differently. The majority of estrogen in a premenopausal females is from the ovaries so an AI is not going to really do much. This is why AIs (like Adex) are only prescribed to postmenopausal females with breast cancer. Premenpausal females get prescribed a SERM like nolva. Now, I guess this could change if the female is taking a high dose of test or other aromatizing AAS but usually in a contest prep environment this would not be the case. However, keeping in a TRUE female TRT dose of test can be a good idea (~7mg/week).

Typically, if the female is estrogen dominant & premeapausal than nolva can help lean out the estrogen dominant areas (lower body & triceps) but I would not add this in until they are lean everywhere else. Another great option is low dose proviron which can be used alone or in combo with nolva depending on the situation. Proviron has very minor AI character and can help "harden" a female physique without the harsh side effects of high androgenic AAS.

great post. Do you give Winny, Nolva or Proviron until the last day of the competition or take off before Peak Week? we are talking about bikini fitness. thank you for answer