NPP vs Tren, a realistic comparison

[mr.hendo]

I am also running both tren ace, prop, npp, lovin it, this is a first for me with this combo lean gains. I cant say enough for my new found fav compuond. npp is great for buildin muscle, but tren will rip u up. So i figured id mix em.

 

[BA69]

yes but how much NPP would it take to be comparable in results to 100-150mgs of tren a day? id say ud need alot of NPP

Not sure. Tren is maybe twice as strong mg for mg? Hard to really quantify. I'm sensitive to sides and still managed 150mg of NPP ED. I definitely had better results on 150mg of NPP vs 50mg of Tren while managing the sides better on NPP.

I don't know too many people who have run NPP at over 100mg a day. I did the math years ago(could be off), and 500mg of Deca will give you around 800mg of BASE nandrolone when blood levels peak. 800mg of Base Nandrolone would correspond to roughly 1050mg of NPP. So 500mg a week of Deca very inefficiently will deliver the same amount of Nandrolone as 150mg a day. I would have loved to see results on short bursts of 200mg ED.

 

[Rex Feral]

There has been a lot of advice lately to decrease T dose while on tren to minimize sides. In the off season it seems preferable to use NPP to replace a portion of your planned tren dose and keep your T up to accomplish this goal. E.g. if your T dose is 1 gram, do not drop your T to 200-400 mg in order to run tren @ 700 mg qwk. Keep your T at 1 gram, run 150-350 tren, & NPP @ 300-550 mg. None of this is healthy and nandrolone may have its own problems which are not measurable, but I do not like the idea of dropping test low during a growth phase in favor of high tren. The NPP will also give you give an added fullness that the tren will not. Even 50 of tren with 100 NPP tiw (3x/wk) will yield very favorable results for the vast majority of you when combined with double the T and proper E management without having to deal with tren sides. Including a lessening of tren's effects on lipids which are largely dose dependent and clearly not "felt" by those who favor dropping T so they can run high doses of tren.

Rex.

 

[saps]

yes but how much NPP would it take to be comparable in results to 100-150mgs of tren a day? id say ud need alot of NPP

I don't think you can or should compare them in this manner. It would be akin to asking how much EQ and mast would I need to replace test. Different compounds with different effects and results. Its again why I'd advocate merely using tren if you want the effects and results it produced and/or using npp [or any other compound] for its own effects and results.

There has been a lot of advice lately to decrease T dose while on tren to minimize sides. In the off season it seems preferable to use NPP to replace a portion of your planned tren dose and keep your T up to accomplish this goal. E.g. if your T dose is 1 gram, do not drop your T to 200-400 mg in order to run tren @ 700 mg qwk. Keep your T at 1 gram, run 150-350 tren, & NPP @ 300-550 mg. None of this is healthy and nandrolone may have its own problems which are not measurable, but I do not like the idea of dropping test low during a growth phase in favor of high tren. The NPP will also give you give an added fullness that the tren will not. Even 50 of tren with 100 NPP tiw (3x/wk) will yield very favorable results for the vast majority of you when combined with double the T and proper E management without having to deal with tren sides. Including a lessening of tren's effects on lipids which are largely dose dependent and clearly not "felt" by those who favor dropping T so they can run high doses of tren.

Rex.

Sounds like maybe you've never actually tried low dose test with tren or npp. Skepticism usually vanishes once you've walked a mile in the shoes so to speak. Also if you think you're doing your lipids a favor by choosing 1G of test instead of 700mg of tren don't. While tren per mg is IME the most HDL eating compound out there, test is second and while it takes more test to destroy the same amount of HDL that's exactly what you are proposing.
If you like test and growth with it by all means enjoy it. But it is incorrect to assert test must be a base for growth or that is must be one's highest dosed compound. I'm growing just fine on 175 a week of test but also using low doses of mast and tren with a moderate dose of npp.
With all respect the gh15 pupils growth is usually about eating enough to justify the compounds you are running. In turn lack of growth is almost always due to undereating rather than a lack of gear

 

[tri-terror]

I really agree with this guy. But let's get it out of the way first that Tren is the game changer, not NPP. BUT, like the OP said, I personally feel a lot better on NPP than tren, and you can make pretty good gains off it.

I think the ticket is to run both of them though. Yeah you are going to want some caber or bromo, but fuck I think it would be awesome. I think something like 750mg sustanon, 600mg NPP, and 300-400mg tren hex would be the BOMB.

 

[klimentiy]

You can't even comapre these. Both are 19-nor's but have completely different effect on the body and are used for different purpose.

 

[thatbloke]

Not sure. Tren is maybe twice as strong mg for mg? Hard to really quantify. I'm sensitive to sides and still managed 150mg of NPP ED. I definitely had better results on 150mg of NPP vs 50mg of Tren while managing the sides better on NPP.

I don't know too many people who have run NPP at over 100mg a day. I did the math years ago(could be off), and 500mg of Deca will give you around 800mg of BASE nandrolone when blood levels peak. 800mg of Base Nandrolone would correspond to roughly 1050mg of NPP. So 500mg a week of Deca very inefficiently will deliver the same amount of Nandrolone as 150mg a day. I would have loved to see results on short bursts of 200mg ED.

that was pretty much my point, you can get away with using alot less tren to get the same level of muscle building effects as NPP without the water or bloat

prob be cheaper running the tren at a low dose then the NPP at the high dose wen you do the math (maybe)

i personaly can get away with 400mgs of tren a week pretty easily, and as you said ud prob need about of gram of NPP to get identical muscle buildign results

but then again tren has other properties like it fat burning, hardening and vascular that NPP doesnt have, so although we could try compare them it is rather difficult becoz both offer very unique muscle building and conditioning qualities

i dont think either should be compared, just different options for people goals

but then again im a tren lover so im always gonna be biased

 

[thatbloke]

I don't think you can or should compare them in this manner. It would be akin to asking how much EQ and mast would I need to replace test. Different compounds with different effects and results. Its again why I'd advocate merely using tren if you want the effects and results it produced and/or using npp [or any other compound] for its own effects and results.


Sounds like maybe you've never actually tried low dose test with tren or npp. Skepticism usually vanishes once you've walked a mile in the shoes so to speak. Also if you think you're doing your lipids a favor by choosing 1G of test instead of 700mg of tren don't. While tren per mg is IME the most HDL eating compound out there, test is second and while it takes more test to destroy the same amount of HDL that's exactly what you are proposing.
If you like test and growth with it by all means enjoy it. But it is incorrect to assert test must be a base for growth or that is must be one's highest dosed compound. I'm growing just fine on 175 a week of test but also using low doses of mast and tren with a moderate dose of npp.
With all respect the gh15 pupils growth is usually about eating enough to justify the compounds you are running. In turn lack of growth is almost always due to undereating rather than a lack of gear

that was my point to the OP, sorry for not making it clear

 

[BA69]

I think this is a good discussion.

Thatbloke, I agree completely that 50mg of Tren is stronger in every way to 50mg of NPP. Gram for gram, Tren is stronger. How many people have used really effective "blast" doses of NPP? I only know of myself and another board owner who have run over a gram of NPP per week. This wasn't feasible or safe without the use of dostinex, but now that we have it at our disposal, I think experimentation is possible.

 

[Rex Feral]

Sounds like maybe you've never actually tried low dose test with tren or npp. Skepticism usually vanishes once you've walked a mile in the shoes so to speak. Also if you think you're doing your lipids a favor by choosing 1G of test instead of 700mg of tren don't. While tren per mg is IME the most HDL eating compound out there, test is second and while it takes more test to destroy the same amount of HDL that's exactly what you are proposing.
If you like test and growth with it by all means enjoy it. But it is incorrect to assert test must be a base for growth or that is must be one's highest dosed compound. I'm growing just fine on 175 a week of test but also using low doses of mast and tren with a moderate dose of npp.
With all respect the gh15 pupils growth is usually about eating enough to justify the compounds you are running. In turn lack of growth is almost always due to undereating rather than a lack of gear

Damn bro, you make a lot of assumptions. Never tried low dose test with tren or npp? Perhaps you are unaware that this is how everyone and their brother did things 25 years ago when I first used what you assume I never tried? You act as though what you are suggesting is some novel concept when in fact it is just rehashed thinking from the 80s. Perhaps we are talking about two different things with completely different goals in mind? You see if you were to attempt your little quasi HRT today as a competitive bodybuilder you will lose your ass. The reason why no one does what you are suggesting anymore is because you cannot be competitive doing cycles from the 80s. Your HDL is just as bad on 1 gram T and 150-200 tren as it is on 700 tren and 200 T? Maybe you have shit genetics for heart disease? Again, you assume things you should not. What you suggest works to a degree obviously, I did it for years myself. I never asserted anything, never said anything must be any certain way, merely stated what I thought was preferable with regards to competitive bodybuilding today. No one who wishes to be competitive attempts to grow on 200 mg T. Period. If you want to fuck around with some quasi HRT more power to you, I think its great. But last I checked this a competitive bodybuilding forum and what you suggest is a recipe for failure in that arena.

Rex.

 

[AlphaMaleDawg]

I think this is a good discussion.

Thatbloke, I agree completely that 50mg of Tren is stronger in every way to 50mg of NPP. Gram for gram, Tren is stronger. How many people have used really effective "blast" doses of NPP? I only know of myself and another board owner who have run over a gram of NPP per week. This wasn't feasible or safe without the use of dostinex, but now that we have it at our disposal, I think experimentation is possible.

how did a gram of NPP work for you guys? and how much dostinex did you use at that dose?

 

[LucaB]

Tren is the best.

 

[antoniodasilva]

Tren all the way.... I'd rather not bloat up like the Michellan man

 

[Dentor]

I might have to give the ED dose of npp a shot. I did every 3 days and experienced some bloat big time.

 

[minister]

I'm also currently running both tren and npp. Definitely liking the npp. As mentioned above tren is unrivaled. By npp is certainly is nice addition. Also its nice to put to bed the myth that one cannot run both 19nors together. You absolutely can.

Well my brother, you are one of those blessed brothers with very low prolactin levels, cause most people will start having all kinds of sides running nandralone and Tren together, I know most of my guys that have tried it have had problems. I like NPP in low doses for bulking , and tren in low doses for cutting, but I can't run both at the same time. God bless you.

 

[MR. BMJ]

For me, NPP works very well. I can't use it any longer because my nips get sensitive from nandrolones, but in the past, i'd use Tren for cutting for it's strong anti-catabolic effects, and then in the winter switch over to NPP. With NPP, I got much less water retention than with the decanoate ester, and if sides arose, it didn't linger in the body upon cessation.

I've used 100mg/d and it worked very well, but my favorite dosage is 100mg EOD....it caused less sides and was only minimally less effective. For me, the 2 sides I got from it were acne and nipple sensitivity....even at 50-100mg/wk

With NPP you will feel much better than when on tren, and your joints feel better too. You will gain more water weight, but of course diet will also determine how sloppy one gets.

While tren is unique in itself, NPP is a great option if used in the correct manner.

 

[andro]

If iam trying to gain muscle mass and not so much water weight would i be better to go with npp? Have heard from some strength gains on npp were better than tren.
I have done deca and got bloated and no strength. Is npp the same?

 

[saps]

Damn bro, you make a lot of assumptions. Never tried low dose test with tren or npp? Perhaps you are unaware that this is how everyone and their brother did things 25 years ago when I first used what you assume I never tried? You act as though what you are suggesting is some novel concept when in fact it is just rehashed thinking from the 80s. Perhaps we are talking about two different things with completely different goals in mind? You see if you were to attempt your little quasi HRT today as a competitive bodybuilder you will lose your ass. The reason why no one does what you are suggesting anymore is because you cannot be competitive doing cycles from the 80s. Your HDL is just as bad on 1 gram T and 150-200 tren as it is on 700 tren and 200 T? Maybe you have shit genetics for heart disease? Again, you assume things you should not. What you suggest works to a degree obviously, I did it for years myself. I never asserted anything, never said anything must be any certain way, merely stated what I thought was preferable with regards to competitive bodybuilding today. No one who wishes to be competitive attempts to grow on 200 mg T. Period. If you want to fuck around with some quasi HRT more power to you, I think its great. But last I checked this a competitive bodybuilding forum and what you suggest is a recipe for failure in that arena.

Rex.

Fair enough. I suppose we aren't really addressing each other or the intent of the OP per se but speaking truthfully about different sides of the same coin. This might be a competitive BB forum but this thread per se was not asking how do I win the Olympia. Yes of course the kitchen sink approach is what works. More is better. So yes 3g of test, 2g of tren a week 30iu of GH daily, slin etc etc. I'm not debating that but then again that also was not the point of the thread or the question.
As true as it is to say this is a competitive bodybuilding forum, its equally true to say this forum is about sharing of knowledge and information and general health. All the trophies in the world aren't much good to you when you're either dead or don't have a decent quality of life.
Bottom line is we probably actually agree with what the other is saying depending on the looking glass. In both cases, neither is right or wrong per se, but both probably deviate from this thread's purposeful intent

 

[AlphaMaleDawg]

If iam trying to gain muscle mass and not so much water weight would i be better to go with npp? Have heard from some strength gains on npp were better than tren.
I have done deca and got bloated and no strength. Is npp the same?

No tren provides more strength than NPP. It also provides more muscle, but some people think npp gives them more muscle simply because the number on the scale is higher. In reality, they gain more on tren because they are losing fat and gaining muscle at the same time in some cases. Since they are losing fat, they don't realize they are gaining more muscle than what they would gain on npp. Assuming comparable doses of course

 

[BA69]

No tren provides more strength than NPP. It also provides more muscle, but some people think npp gives them more muscle simply because the number on the scale is higher. In reality, they gain more on tren because they are losing fat and gaining muscle at the same time in some cases. Since they are losing fat, they don't realize they are gaining more muscle than what they would gain on npp. Assuming comparable doses of course

We all agreed that you cannot compare Tren with NPP mg for mg. The mg amount in order to compare NPP to Tren whould have to go up. To be fair, let's compare 75mg of Tren to 150mg of NPP. How many people have done that much NPP? Not too many. By my calculations, 150mg NPP ED only corresponds to the peak/efficient part of a ~500mg per week Deca cycle.

As far as when I ran a gram of NPP, I never experienced any gyno flair up as some have. I used dostinex, I believe 0.5mg 3X per week. I used the pharma one comes in 4tab bottles. I had made a 120mg NPP/ 100mg Test Enanthate blend, and I would shoot 1.25cc ED. That would give me 150mg of NPP and 125mg of Test ED (875mg per week).

By the end of week 5 or 6, I started experiencing some sexual sides (I would not finish quick enough) I would stay all the way up, but after 1h30min-2h, my girl would get frustrated. I stopped at week 6, continued with primo instead at 600mg per week along with enanthate.

Cycle was the best I've ever done. Strength gains through the roof, better than Tren in that regard, IMO. Tren gives you a wired feeling, CNS stimulant like, but the joint pain quickly adds up. NPP gives you a confidence and real strength increases. It did not drop as sharply as when I discontinued tren.

Again, if you compare let's say Anadrol to dbol, you wouldn't compare 25mg of dbol to 25mg of Anadrol... You compare based on what we as a community view as an effective standard dose after years of information sharing...