O/T legal advice

[wostok]

-------

look at this commercial about smoking from the 50's

YouTube - Cigarettes are good for you!

then look at this commercial about swine flu vaccine in the 70's

YouTube - 1976 Swine Flu Propaganda


Millions have died from smoking.

And the swine flu vaccinaton in the 70s had to be aborted cause people and doctors refused it because people started dying from it.



WHAT do you think has changed?

The world hasnt become a more better, honest place, its just gotten darker, more corrupt and evil.
Thats one of the reason why im not taking the vaccine.
If you couldnt trust em back then, im sure as hell wont trust them now cause everything is hell a lot worse nowdays!

The other reason was that i read up on doctors and people in general that are against vaccinations to see what they have to say about vaccines and how vaccines work and what they are made of.

 

[SecondAct]

look at this commercial about smoking from the 50's

YouTube - Cigarettes are good for you!

It's a cigarette commercial. You could still find a 100 doctors today who would say that given a big enough check. It wasn't the consensus of the medical community at large. Michael jackson just found a Dr. to give him anesthesia every night, doesn't mean it's the consensus of the medical community, it means he found a corrupt dr., easy task.

then look at this commercial about swine flu vaccine in the 70's

YouTube - 1976 Swine Flu Propaganda

40 million innoculated, 500 affected by nerve issue, 30 deaths. Do the math vs. potential deaths if it was a 1918 style outbreak as they feared. Republican then, Republican 4 years ago when Bush was going to do it, Democrat now, who is behind the massive gov't conspiracy to kill us off ? If it isn't the right or left, we know it isn't the Libertarians who would be against this on principle, then who is behind the conspiracy ?

It's doctors put in a time pinch making the best decision given a varying set of potential issues. While A may cause a minute number of issues in .0001% of population, if B occurs it's a nightmare.

If you worry about these types of odds, I assume you walk everywhere because getting in a car is 1000x times more dangerous than getting the 1976 swine flu vaccine.


Millions have died from smoking.

And the swine flu vaccinaton in the 70s had to be aborted cause people and doctors refused it because people started dying from it.



WHAT do you think has changed?

The world hasnt become a more better, honest place, its just gotten darker, more corrupt and evil.
Thats one of the reason why im not taking the vaccine.
If you couldnt trust em back then, im sure as hell wont trust them now cause everything is hell a lot worse nowdays!

The other reason was that i read up on doctors and people in general that are against vaccinations to see what they have to say about vaccines and how vaccines work and what they are made of.

After this whole thread, if you read Tom's letter, he is being forced to receive the standard flu vaccine, not the H1N1. That's still being tested, he will have to take it if they find it suitable, but hasn't been ordered to as of yet.

If they want to force him to take it, for his sake I hope they allow him to take a leave, that would allow him to keep his job. He's a nice guy from everything I've read and wouldn't want to see him lose his job even if I disagree with him.

 

[Tom]

After this whole thread, if you read Tom's letter, he is being forced to receive the standard flu vaccine, not the H1N1. That's still being tested, he will have to take it if they find it suitable, but hasn't been ordered to as of yet.

If they want to force him to take it, for his sake I hope they allow him to take a leave, that would allow him to keep his job. He's a nice guy from everything I've read and wouldn't want to see him lose his job even if I disagree with him.

thank you second act. here is the part of the letter that concerns me:

If the novel H1N1 vaccine is released as a fully licensed vaccine, as expected, this regulation will also require immunization against H1N1 as well as seasonal influenza this coming season. Further information will be provided when the Department receives updates on the vaccine, its licensure status and availability this fall.

sounds pretty much like it's going to be pushed through with mimnimal if any testing for long/short term complications.

 

[BALDNAZI]

...

This is just the beginning. If you think this is just about getting the shot and everything will be fine. You are WRONG. Something is going on, there is a reason for all of this. Look at this bill in Massachusetts that was passed back in April. This IS NOT about the flu, never was, it is about control, pure and simple. The so called "pandemic" is merely a stepping stone to bigger things.

Swine Flu Martial Law Bill Clears Massachusetts Senate | Ron Paul Wins! | Campaign for Liberty at the Daily Paul

THIS IS IN THE BILL...
(1) to require the owner or occupier of premises to permit entry into and investigation of the premises;
(2) to close, direct, and compel the evacuation of, or to decontaminate or cause to be decontaminated any building or facility, and to allow the reopening of the building or facility when the danger has ended;
(3) to decontaminate or cause to be decontaminated, or to destroy any material;
(4) to restrict or prohibit assemblages of persons;
(5) to require a health care facility to provide services or the use of its facility, or to transfer the management and supervision of the health care facility to the department or to a local public health authority;

Are you understanding this? You are REQUIRED to allow entry to your home. Read the whole bill.

Isn't it rather coercive to threaten a quarantine and a $1000/day fine if one gets sick if you don't take the vaccine?

In other words, if you don't get the vaccination and you get sick, they will ensure you will never recover (i.e. loss of job (do to quarantine), plus removal of all funds remaining and any health care that your job provided). "If you don't do as we say, we will break you."

It's a threat intended to make the sheep think twice about going against the governement's vaccination demands. But think about this: it must be awefully darned important to them that no one be left out of the vaccination if they have to THREATEN people to do so.

ALL of your rights have already been violated to some degree. With Septemeber 11th we got the Patriot Act. Now Swine Flu is the latest in a long line of excuses for them to tighten the noose around our collective neck. And somehow the average idiot out there still believes that the government is still under our control and acting in our best interest. I believe that the average person deserves whatever they get. If they are not capable of figuring it out by now and if they are not willing to do something about it once they do figure it out, then they are sealing their own fate.

 

[Tom]

YES

this is for real.they were debating this on fox news the other night.

 

[ssdark1]

secondact...

you have some very valid, articulate, and logical points. you may even be correct about the vaccination, im not sure, nobody can really be sure, but i think that your misunderstanding our point.

it isnt about if more people will die from the shot or the actual flu virus, its about our government exploiting it to take more control over our lives, control that is not rightfully theirs to take. it is the very spirit of our country that is at stake, what many hold as one of their highest values. the scientific mind cant understand.

its just like the global warming issue, 617ricky had a great post in that thread, maybe its caused by our SUVs (i doubt it), maybe not, but either way the government wants to exploit it and use it to furthter their agenda which just so happens to involve the loss of liberties for us. do you really think the government is capable doing something (curbing global warming) of such magnitude? no. they dont either, it isnt their goal.

and i didnt really see where BN said anything derogatory to anyone, it is just frustrating that everyone believes all the BS they see on tv (not saying you do)...

 

[BALDNAZI]

you have some very valid, articulate, and logical points. you may even be correct about the vaccination, im not sure, nobody can really be sure, but i think that your misunderstanding our point.

it isnt about if more people will die from the shot or the actual flu virus, its about our government exploiting it to take more control over our lives, control that is not rightfully theirs to take. it is the very spirit of our country that is at stake, what many hold as one of their highest values. the scientific mind cant understand.

its just like the global warming issue, 617ricky had a great post in that thread, maybe its caused by our SUVs (i doubt it), maybe not, but either way the government wants to exploit it and use it to furthter their agenda which just so happens to involve the loss liberties for us. do you really think the government is capable doing something of such magnitude? no. they dont either, it isnt their goal.

and i didnt really see where BN said anything derogatory to anyone, it is just frustrating that everyone believes all the BS they see on tv (not saying you do)...

THANK YOU...

My point is simply that you must have a healthy distrust of governement. It is your DUTY as a citizen. Our Founding Fathers wanted it so. I am not here to argue about deaths from the vaccine vs. deaths from the flu, its IS NOT my issue.

I DO NOT TRUST GOVERNMENT. Democrat or Republican, makes no difference to me. They are supposed to work for us, not the other way around. They are supposed to answer to us.

If you dont think that we are living on the cusp of something huge, then I suggest you read as much as possible. Things like The 5000 Year Leap or Homo Americanus..Child of the Post Modern Age for one point of view along with historical fact.

Read The Communist Manifesto to know how "they" think. And ABSOLUTELY READ The Coming Insurrection to know where we are going, and what is planned for all of us. Your mind will be wide open after that.

"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends,
it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government"

Thomas Jefferson my friends, The Declaration of Independance.

 

[BALDNAZI]

fox news.... hahahah.... ok then.

And you quoted wikipedia??? hahahaha

Are you for real? Truth be told, fuck FOX news and there neo-con bullshit. Fuck MSNBC and their ultra liberal commie bullshit. In fact they can all disappear for all I care. ALL of them are part of the same cabal. As I always say, nothing is what it seems. The media are masters of disinformation. They ALL receive their marching orders from the same people. Who are those people? Ahhhh, if we only knew. But I can tell you this, the NWO is not a joke, globalism is not a joke...the one world government is very real. To deny it is idiocy. Bush, Clinton, Obama, it matters not. All the same, all answer to the men behind the curtain. Again, to find out who, all one needs to do is read and study history.

Ask yourself who is it that you are not free to criticize, and you shall have your answer as to who runs the show.

Both parties are nothing but the same pile of shit.

 

[Tom]

media

fox news.... hahahah.... ok then.

ummm, i posted that to show that even mainstream media acknowledges the reality of the bill.

 

[Bionic]

This is nothing new. They've never tried to hide it.

"It doesn't matter who the people voted for; they always vote for us".

- Joseph Stalin, Illuminati -

"... in politics nothing is accidental. If something happens, be assured it was
planned this way"

- Franklin D. Roosevelt - (32 Degree Freemason)

"The world can therefore seize the opportunity (Persian Gulf crisis) to fulfill the long-held promise of a New World Order where diverse nations are drawn together in common cause to achieve the universal aspirations of mankind."

George Herbert Walker Bush

 

[Kaiser]

BN, as with most of the time, you make valid, articulate points. I have felt this way about the things you mentioned for a while now.

 

[Tom]

exemption....

i just spoke to the ny dept of health. the only way to get out of the mandatory shot is through a medical exemption. if i can find a doc that will work with me i can claim i have had adverse reactions to the flu vaccine in the past. i don't know if my primary would be willing to sign for me as i'm sure the state will be scrutinizing every exemption form that comes through. i'm still going to persue legal means in the meantime.

 

[maldorf]

**broken link removed**

this is a link directly from the nys dept of health. it is a letter to administrators. they are keeping this from the staff because it would cause a shit storm.

This is pretty big stuff in my mind. Is it happening in other states too? I am surprised that it hasnt hit the television news media yet or the papers. IN MY MIND ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL FORCES IN THIS COUNTRY IS THE MEDIA. Why hasnt someone apporoached them with this and try to get it publicized?

 

[Tom]

This is pretty big stuff in my mind. Is it happening in other states too? I am surprised that it hasnt hit the television news media yet or the papers. IN MY MIND ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL FORCES IN THIS COUNTRY IS THE MEDIA. Why hasnt someone apporoached them with this and try to get it publicized?

i think they know it would start a major shit storm. even my union was unaware of it till i told them . administrators are keeping a lid on it but not for much longer. too many people are finding out.

 

[maldorf]

the orriginal reason for your post

My lawyer friend had just a little bit of advice on the subject. Here is what he had to say:

"I don't see him having any recourse through the ACLU unless he can tie
it into some constitutional right. He may be able to get some relief
through the union but most of that will depend on their stance on the
issue and whether or not getting required immunizations is part of the
the contract. It may very well be. Probably something akin to the
hepatitis B vaccine that is required to work in the health field. This
appears to be an employment issue and the requirements, more often than
not, are substantially different than those than can be mandated to the
average person. Also, much of it depends on NY employment law, something
about which I know very little to nothing at all. The best thing I can
say is for him file a Temporary Restraining Order or a Declaratory
Judgment against the employer and/or the state and have the courts act
on it. Whether or not he has the grounds to do so or win depends much on
the state law which, again, I don't know anything about. If he wants to,
he should contact a local attorney for advice.

The Army thing was different. We were provided the pills and I just
didn't take them. There was no verification of any sort that showed that
I had or hadn't actually ingested it. The anthrax vaccine was
different. They kept a log of who got the shots. I assume that he'd have
to provide some information that he did so in his case."

You can see that the government was keeping track of those that got the anthrax vaccine so that there was not a way around that. I guess with those pills they gave the soldiers you could just not take them and not get caught.
Personally I do find it very disturbing that they are making you all to get this reguardless of your choice, but the health of the patients at the hospital is also at stake. Your decision to not take the vaccine affects everyone you come in contact with, so its not like its just a personal choice. By not taking it you risk the health of others if you get ill. I really dont see any way out of taking this vaccine, considering everyone now has to get the hepatitis B vaccine. Havent you already had that series of shots? Im sure you have to have all of the other childhood vaccines too. It just comes with your turf.
The part that does worry me though is the possibility that its testing might get rushed and potential side effects are not detected. On the other hand this vaccine probably isnt that much different than the flu vaccine that millions get every fall in the US. Havent been any big problems with that.

 

[maldorf]

i think they know it would start a major shit storm. even my union was unaware of it till i told them . administrators are keeping a lid on it but not for much longer. too many people are finding out.

It cant go on for too much longer.

 

[Tom]

news

It cant go on for too much longer.

LOL...it didn't. They annonced it on the 5 o'clock news here locally. By the way MALDORF....thank you very much for the feedback from your lawyer friend. please thank him for me. The majority of the people I talk to at work are just going to take it for fear of losing thier jobs. I will try for a medical exemption.

 

[maldorf]

LOL...it didn't. They annonced it on the 5 o'clock news here locally. By the way MALDORF....thank you very much for the feedback from your lawyer friend. please thank him for me. The majority of the people I talk to at work are just going to take it for fear of losing thier jobs. I will try for a medical exemption.

My father-in-law is on the board of a hospital and they were just notified today that this monday they will all be getting the seasonal flu vaccine. IN the letter it also talks about the H1N1 vaccine. Did you realize that the vaccine is going to be a series of 2 shots??!! I had not heard about that. So you will have the pleasure of getting it done 2x. Below is what the letter had to say:


HINI Novel Influenza Virus
(September 4, 2009)




Seasonal Influenza Vaccination

Seasonal Influenza vaccinations will be available to healthcare workers starting the week of Monday, September 14, 2009. All healthcare workers will be encouraged to receive seasonal influenza vaccination. An important point for healthcare workers to remember: A person infected with influenza sheds virus for 24 hours before they realize they are ill. Vaccination to prevent infection is an important weapon in the fight against influenza.


Novel Influenza (aka Swine flu) Vaccination

Presently it appears that the novel H1N1 (aka Swine flu) vaccine will become available for healthcare workers in mid-October. Healthcare workers are a high priority group for vaccination. Vaccine will continue to be manufactured and as it becomes available additional groups will become priority groups. The Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices recommended five specific populations as the initial focus for novel influenza A H1N1 vaccination efforts. These groups are as follows:

-Pregnant women

-Healthcare workers and emergency medical personnel

-Children and young adults aged 6 months through 24 years

-Non-elderly adults with underlying risk conditions or medical conditions
that increase their risk of complications from influenza

-Anyone who comes into meaningful contact with any of the above


It is believed the vaccine will need to be administered in two doses, with the second dose being administered 21-28 days after the first.




Methods to prevent transmission of influenza:

Wash your hands and avoid contact with the mucous membranes of your face

Cover your cough by observing cough etiquette/respiratory hygiene
-do not cough into your hand
-cover your cough in the crook of your arm or with a tissue.

Clean horizontal surfaces with disinfectant wipes.



Where can you find the most accurate information about Influenza?

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention


Now this letter makes it sound like it is an option, I dont know. It says it is available. Not sure what our state here is doing and if its going to be like NY and require it.

 

[Tom]

optional

nothing in the letter says mandatory or mandated. they are encouarged to take it but not forced. i wish that's how it was in ny. thank you for posting that. i do fear though that other states will be following ny's lead.

 

[maldorf]

nothing in the letter says mandatory or mandated. they are encouarged to take it but not forced. i wish that's how it was in ny. thank you for posting that. i do fear though that other states will be following ny's lead.

Yeah, he just said in an email that the only thing they have to do yearly is the TB test.