Offseason / Switch From Classic Physique into Bodybuilding

[Redlotusflower99]

Hello everyone, I’m new here and I want to start an offseason log about myself. I’m 22 years old, 6 ft tall, 224 lbs stage lean. I have just finished 4 weeks of cruise/recovery and once I have my bloodwork and everything looks good, I will start my offseason. Currently, I don’t have a coach and I’m doing everything myself. I plan to structure my offseason as follows:

Weak points:

• Back
• Arms
• Hamstrings

Training split:

• Pull (Start with Biceps)
• Push (Start with Trizeps)
• Legs (Quad focus)
• Rest
• Upper (Back focus)
• Lower (Hamstring focus)
• Rest

Cardio:
15 min HIIT in the morning for stamina and during compound lifts.

PEDs:

• 125 mg Test C every day / 875 mg per week
• 50 mg NPP every day / 350 mg per week
• 150 mg EQ on Tuesday & Friday / 300 mg per week
• 50 mg Drol pre-workout on weak body parts

No AI because of EQ & I want E2 higher

• 12 IU GH all in one shot before bed
• 5–10 IU rapid insulin pre- & post-workout
• 20 IU Lantus in the morning
• 100 mcg T4
• 80 mg Telmisartan

Nutrition:
Carbs/food will increase depending on weight and performance. Starting point will be:

• 6 meals per day
• 80 g carbs per meal
• 40 g quality protein per meal (whey, chicken, beef, or white fish)
• 100–200 g fruits and vegetables per meal
• Fat intake depends on meal timing, roughly 10–20 g per meal
• Sodium intake 8–10 g per day

Supplements I’m running:

• Red Yeast Rice 6 caps
• Berberine 1000 mg
• Omega-3 8 g
• NAC 1000 mg
• TUDCA 500 mg
• Multivitamin 1 serving
• Vitamin D3 + K2 10,000 IU

Intra-workout shake:

• 30–80 g Cyclic Dextrin depending on the phase
• 30 g EAAs
• 10 g creatine
• 1 serving electrolytes

Pre-bed:

• Ashwagandha 600 mg
• Magnesium 1000 mg
• Melatonin 5 mg

Maybe i will try some Peptides Like mots-c and stuff but idk if its waste of money.

What do you think about this? I’m looking forward to any suggestions or improvements.

Best regards

 

[cage99]

It looks like you’ve got a detailed plan for such a young fella! That’s a good thing though! There’s some great coaches here such as @hawkmoon, @luki7788, @IFBBProDomCardone to name a few. All three are top notch and get you your goal body. Wishing you the best on your endeavor!

Cage

 

[AllOkJumpmaster]

Welcome dude. 15 min of HIIT is daily?

 

[buck]

Looks good other then maybe the amount HIIT. You will be well on your way to figuring out what works best for with this sort or thinking.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

Your HIIT is way too much. So is your GH dose (maybe not, but cannot if you're advanced...but you're on here asking for help so i'm gonna guess you're not). And then reason for Lantus then.

Personally, follow your coaches plan. Do not ask guys on the internet for what they'd do different. You have a coach, follow him.

 

[AllOkJumpmaster]

Your HIIT is way too much. So is your GH dose (maybe not, but cannot if you're advanced...but you're on here asking for help so i'm gonna guess you're not). And then reason for Lantus then.

Personally, follow your coaches plan. Do not ask guys on the internet for what they'd do different. You have a coach, follow him.

Well, he did say he does not have a coach, but I agree, if you rely solely on opinions from forum members, conflicting ideas, and methods / recommendations can you leave you more uncertain than before you started. That said, most of the people here will provide trustworthy advice, and guidance. I was going to comment further about the HIIT as well, if he had answered me about if it is a daily protocol. I agree with you about it being way to much, I'd personally drop it down to 1-2 days a week max if you are hell bent on keeping it, and replace it with some zone 2 base building on the other days.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

Well, he did say he does not have a coach, but I agree, if you rely solely on opinions from forum members, conflicting ideas, and methods / recommendations can you leave you more uncertain than before you started. That said, most of the people here will provide trustworthy advice, and guidance. I was going to comment further about the HIIT as well, if he had answered me about if it is a daily protocol. I agree with you about it being way to much, I'd personally drop it down to 1-2 days a week max if you are hell bent on keeping it, and replace it with some zone 2 base building on the other days.

I fully agree with everything you’re saying. I’m just an idiot because I read “I do have a coach.” Apologies to the OP lol

 

[Fleezy]

• 50 mg Drol pre-workout on weak body parts

as an adenoma enjoyer, i would recommend against orals in general, and anadrol in particular

 

[Bleed]

Whats your current BP? 22 years old and lean at 224 pounds stage weight.

80mg of temisartan is probably almost definitely overkill. Are you sure you even need BP meds? Depending on your bp, you may not need it but 20mg is a good starting place if you need it at all. Maybe you do and you've factored that in already.

You might be able to axe some of those supps, gh, and slin, free up some money, and put it towards a coach.

Looks like you have done some reading but based on your age and experience, hiring a coach right now, even only to get started is the smart play.

 

[luki7788]

Definitely to much gear and overall you to much complicated gear protocols IMO

 

[hawkmoon]

If you are trying to make a jump like that I'd simplify to make things easier to track, focus on progressing training over time along with food, and have the gear to support that.
Simplest way to add mass is going to be progressively more test, perhaps an anabolic if you can't tolerate much (some like me feel best with test below a gram), GH, and insulin.

One change I'd suggest besides simplification and a reset is change that HIT cardio to low intensity cardio such as walking on off days. This is for health and stamina/capacity.
I'd also drop the pre-workout anadrol unless you really need it for the androgenic push - I do sometimes, but it's because I'm just way too chill sometime to push 100% for 2 hours.

My personal progression levers are:

1. Training
2. Food
3. Gear

In that order.

Keep pushing training until it stalls. Then push more food. When that stalls push more gear.
Track and understand recovery and stress levels all the time. Makes sure sleep is on point.

Rinse and repeat, but only change one variable at a time.

 

[Redlotusflower99]

Your HIIT is way too much. So is your GH dose (maybe not, but cannot if you're advanced...but you're on here asking for help so i'm gonna guess you're not). And then reason for Lantus then.

Personally, follow your coaches plan. Do not ask guys on the internet for what they'd do different. You have a coach, follow him.

Thanks for your replies How much cardio would you recommend in the offseason? At the moment I’m still doing 30 minutes of LISS cardio every morning. I’ve tried to keep my activity level high during the cruise phase in order to stay as lean as possible so that my insulin sensitivity remains very good once I start the offseason.

Right now I’m at a healthy body fat level, around 8–9%, about 4–5 weeks post-show, so I think my starting point is very solid.

In my last prep I worked with a coach, and we used 10 IU of GH for around 6–7 months, and towards the end of prep I also ran more gear than I’m planning to use in the offseason. Anadrol is more of an option — normally I don’t use orals outside of prep.

My plan for the offseason is to keep the total amount of gear relatively “lower,” around 1.5 g or so, without increasing the dose further, but instead to run a bit more GH, around 12 IU. Maybe I’ll work with a coach again at some point, but right now I’m really enjoying doing it myself — I just enjoy the process.

Do you want me to make it literally accurate (exact wording) or more like fluent bodybuilding-English the way guys in the scene would actually phrase it?

 

[Redlotusflower99]

Whats your current BP? 22 years old and lean at 224 pounds stage weight.

80mg of temisartan is probably almost definitely overkill. Are you sure you even need BP meds? Depending on your bp, you may not need it but 20mg is a good starting place if you need it at all. Maybe you do and you've factored that in already.

You might be able to axe some of those supps, gh, and slin, free up some money, and put it towards a coach.

Looks like you have done some reading but based on your age and experience, hiring a coach right now, even only to get started is the smart play.

I have been prescribed 80 mg of Telmisartan by my doctor for the past 2 years. I Need it Yes.

 

[Redlotusflower99]

Thanks for your replies How much cardio would you recommend in the offseason? At the moment I’m still doing 30 minutes of LISS cardio every morning. I’ve tried to keep my activity level high during the cruise phase in order to stay as lean as possible so that my insulin sensitivity remains very good once I start the offseason.

Right now I’m at a healthy body fat level, around 8–9%, about 4–5 weeks post-show, so I think my starting point is very solid.

In my last prep I worked with a coach, and we used 10 IU of GH for around 6–7 months, and towards the end of prep I also ran more gear than I’m planning to use in the offseason. Anadrol is more of an option — normally I don’t use orals outside of prep.

My plan for the offseason is to keep the total amount of gear relatively “lower,” around 1.5 g or so, without increasing the dose further, but instead to run a bit more GH, around 12 IU. Maybe I’ll work with a coach again at some point, but right now I’m really enjoying doing it myself — I just enjoy the process.

Do you want me to make it literally accurate (exact wording) or more like fluent bodybuilding-English the way guys in the scene would actually phrase it?

Sorry, I had ChatGPT correct my English

 

[Redlotusflower99]

If you are trying to make a jump like that I'd simplify to make things easier to track, focus on progressing training over time along with food, and have the gear to support that.
Simplest way to add mass is going to be progressively more test, perhaps an anabolic if you can't tolerate much (some like me feel best with test below a gram), GH, and insulin.

One change I'd suggest besides simplification and a reset is change that HIT cardio to low intensity cardio such as walking on off days. This is for health and stamina/capacity.
I'd also drop the pre-workout anadrol unless you really need it for the androgenic push - I do sometimes, but it's because I'm just way too chill sometime to push 100% for 2 hours.

My personal progression levers are:

1. Training
2. Food
3. Gear

In that order.

Keep pushing training until it stalls. Then push more food. When that stalls push more gear.
Track and understand recovery and stress levels all the time. Makes sure sleep is on point.

Rinse and repeat, but only change one variable at a time.

Thanks man, that’s valuable help.

Best regards

 

[AllOkJumpmaster]

Thanks for your replies How much cardio would you recommend in the offseason? At the moment I’m still doing 30 minutes of LISS cardio every morning. I’ve tried to keep my activity level high during the cruise phase in order to stay as lean as possible so that my insulin sensitivity remains very good once I start the offseason.

Right now I’m at a healthy body fat level, around 8–9%, about 4–5 weeks post-show, so I think my starting point is very solid.

In my last prep I worked with a coach, and we used 10 IU of GH for around 6–7 months, and towards the end of prep I also ran more gear than I’m planning to use in the offseason. Anadrol is more of an option — normally I don’t use orals outside of prep.

My plan for the offseason is to keep the total amount of gear relatively “lower,” around 1.5 g or so, without increasing the dose further, but instead to run a bit more GH, around 12 IU. Maybe I’ll work with a coach again at some point, but right now I’m really enjoying doing it myself — I just enjoy the process.

Do you want me to make it literally accurate (exact wording) or more like fluent bodybuilding-English the way guys in the scene would actually phrase it?

just going to comment on the cardio protocols

personally, the minimum I like to see / recommend with people is 3 x 30 min of LISS a week (preferably, fasted, but not necessary, or required to be). That said, 30 min LISS daily is perfectly fine, and beneficial. It is great for heart / cardiovascular health, and it keeps the fat burning pathways active. That said, if you are trying to grow, and move up classes, account for that additional activity, and make sure you are militant with tracking your energy intake to ensure are still getting in enough calories to grow. Energy balance trumps all, but in my experience a person that does 30 min of LISS daily, and makes up for that additional deficit with a bit more food is almost always in a better spot than a person eating a bit less, but doing no cardio from a health marker standpoint.

HIIT cardio is great and all, but is very taxing, and also not necessary for heart health, or for preparing your endurance for long heavy sets. Base building (i.e. extended sessions of zone 2 cardio, with a few HIIT sessions sprinkled in and even as a few times a month is perfectly fine to set you up for success for those widow maker types of sets.

 

[Redlotusflower99]

just going to comment on the cardio protocols

personally, the minimum I like to see / recommend with people is 3 x 30 min of LISS a week (preferably, fasted, but not necessary, or required to be). That said, 30 min LISS daily is perfectly fine, and beneficial. It is great for heart / cardiovascular health, and it keeps the fat burning pathways active. That said, if you are trying to grow, and move up classes, account for that additional activity, and make sure you are militant with tracking your energy intake to ensure are still getting in enough calories to grow. Energy balance trumps all, but in my experience a person that does 30 min of LISS daily, and makes up for that additional deficit with a bit more food is almost always in a better spot than a person eating a bit less, but doing no cardio from a health marker standpoint.

HIIT cardio is great and all, but is very taxing, and also not necessary for heart health, or for preparing your endurance for long heavy sets. Base building (i.e. extended sessions of zone 2 cardio, with a few HIIT sessions sprinkled in and even as a few times a month is perfectly fine to set you up for success for those widow maker types of sets.

Yeah, thanks man! Doing 30 minutes of Zone 2 cardio three times a week on rest days, not on leg days, should work fine, right?

 

[AllOkJumpmaster]

Yeah, thanks man! Doing 30 minutes of Zone 2 cardio three times a week on rest days, not on leg days, should work fine, right?

That is perfect for a growth phase. I would program that as a standard, and use your food intake as primary mechanism of adjustment. If you find the scale going up too quickly, as in gaining too much unnecessary fat, back the food down a bit, conversely if you don't see the scale moving, up the surplus a bit.

That said, I primarily help / coach natties, so I'll default any further advice with regards to the rest of your plan to the site's consummate pros here. @hawkmoon, @ScoobyPrep, @homonunculus, @luki7788, @IFBBProDomCardone if I tagged anyone that was already tagged, my bad, and I beg your pardon, but I just want to see a young man get the best direction he can from those with the experience.

 

[Swifto]

That is perfect for a growth phase. I would program that as a standard, and use your food intake as primary mechanism of adjustment. If you find the scale going up too quickly, as in gaining too much unnecessary fat, back the food down a bit, conversely if you don't see the scale moving, up the surplus a bit.

That said, I primarily help / coach natties, so I'll default any further advice with regards to the rest of your plan to the site's consummate pros here. @hawkmoon, @ScoobyPrep, @homonunculus, @luki7788, @IFBBProDomCardone if I tagged anyone that was already tagged, my bad, and I beg your pardon, but I just want to see a young man get the best direction he can from those with the experience.

To add, @troponin

 

[td]

Can you post a stage photo?

It seems like a pretty complex plan for a 22 year old. But are we talking about a competitor on the verge of going pro or someone just trying grow into the super heavyweight class?

If you're up to 9% bodyfat from stage condition, 5 weeks post show, you really don't want to get very much fatter.