Old dudes and insulin

[alaski]

I've read dozens of protocols for insulin but I don't know if we are talking about young people or if it matters. I'm wondering if older men (54) need to take more precautions to compensate for age related wear and tear.

I'm wondering if there are greater benefits for older men that insulin could help with. When I was in the hospital I had two different nurses tell me insulin helps with recovery from surgeries, as they gave my insulin. They say I was diabetic for a few days but I don't know if that was true or some kind of off label treatment.

Is there a protocol that would be safe for older guys? What's a good place to start for someone in there advanced years?

My family has no history of diabetes or blood sugar issues. And I don't have any issues with blood sugar.

 

[norm1220]

I'm 49 and I don't have any problems at all when I run slin. I run it only on workout days, 12 iu humalog either pre or post w/o. When I go pre-workout I sip gatoraid(or Tang) mixed with Isopure protein while training.

You probably want to start off around 5-7 iu and slowly move up the dose if you feel you need more.

 

[alaski]

I'm 49 and I don't have any problems at all when I run slin. I run it only on workout days, 12 iu humalog either pre or post w/o. When I go pre-workout I sip gatoraid(or Tang) mixed with Isopure protein while training.

You probably want to start off around 5-7 iu and slowly move up the dose if you feel you need more.

Thank you Norm…I was beginning to think I asked stupid questions…lol.

I just received (this morning in fact) Humulin R that I ordered from my online pharmacy. It's a 10ml bottle with 100iu's/ml. That seems like quite a lot of Slin/ml using the 1ml Slin pins I have. Maybe I should order 1/2 ml pins for a more accurate application.

What's a good place to start with Humulin R, as I noticed you are using Humulog?

I'm going to start low, as you said, then adjust to something I can be comfortable with. Getting fat is definitely not my goal.

 

[renewlyf]

Ive seen nice results with 3-5 ius 2 x day. R - im before 1 st meal and pre - workout (approx 20 mins) with carbs', True nutritions peptopro and Buzz Saw.

47 years old

 

[triathloncoach]

I'm 49 and I When I go pre-workout I sip Tang

Norm, you are a freaky dirty old man. I'd get too distracted and my workout would suffer.

Ps. I think taking slin is even more crazy. But that's just my aversion to slipping into a diabetic coma and having my workout suffer. No slin, no tang for this soon to be 50 year old.

 

[BigDM]

I'm just happy to see that no one has flamed alaski for asking a question. You know...the "that's been answered on here already...do more research, blah fucking blah, blah, blah."

That was a great question and I'm glad to see some knowledgeble bros pipe in on the subject. I just turned 44 y/o and have been seriously considering the addtion of slin to my program. The more I research the better i actually feel about it. More than likely, I will startout using 3-4 iu's postworkout with the standard pwo shake (protein, carbs, creatine, etc) and increase the dose if needed for 4-5 weeks. Planning to launch in Sept and will def post my personal results.

Much respect,

 

[Elvia1023]

I would recommend a short acting slin (Humalog, Novolog etc) so it is easier to predict. I would start very low so 3-4IU. I done 4IU and it hit me hard. I would use it pre workout and have an intra shake. First time I would do a trial and just stay at home and eat before and after the slin. 2nd time pre workout would be great. Start much higher than you read online in regards to carbs just as a precaution. So if you do 4IU I would have 80g carbs in a shake as it's completely new to you. You will be shocked the pump and fullness you gain from it. As the days add up move down to 10IU per 1IU slin then obviously move down lower until you find your sweet spot (this is different for everyone). Slin is amazing and I am new to it but looking forward to using it again

 

[alaski]

I'm just happy to see that no one has flamed alaski for asking a question. You know...the "that's been answered on here already...do more research, blah fucking blah, blah, blah."

That was a great question and I'm glad to see some knowledgeble bros pipe in on the subject. I just turned 44 y/o and have been seriously considering the addtion of slin to my program. The more I research the better i actually feel about it. More than likely, I will startout using 3-4 iu's postworkout with the standard pwo shake (protein, carbs, creatine, etc) and increase the dose if needed for 4-5 weeks. Planning to launch in Sept and will def post my personal results.

Much respect,

yeah, I thought I was taking a risk of asking a question that has been asked many times. However, my sense was most were generalities and not specific to the age of the subject. Not only that, I don't know if a question can be produced that hasn't been asked before, seriously.

I did find an article today discussing insulin sensitivity as related to older people. It seems we old folks lose sensitivity to insulin, which makes me think it's a good thing for the aged.

 

[triathloncoach]

I'm just happy to see that no one has flamed alaski for asking a question. You know...the "that's been answered on here already...do more research, blah fucking blah, blah, blah."

That was a great question and I'm glad to see some knowledgeble bros pipe in on the subject. I just turned 44 y/o and have been seriously considering the addtion of slin to my program. The more I research the better i actually feel about it. More than likely, I will startout using 3-4 iu's postworkout with the standard pwo shake (protein, carbs, creatine, etc) and increase the dose if needed for 4-5 weeks. Planning to launch in Sept and will def post my personal results.

Much respect,

True. But if you give it any thought, nearly every thread posing a question has been asked many, many times already. I notice. But I also notice that different people answering the same question can bring different experiences and ideas.

I will ask a Newbie Question: I don't even know exactly what slin does and I worked in the Pharmaceutical Diabetes Field. For me it just crashed your blood sugars, if you weren't careful it could worse case kill you. So I'm very biased against it. What changes does a well run course of slin do to your body? I also thought it just made you big and bloated?

 

[norm1220]

True. But if you give it any thought, nearly every thread posing a question has been asked many, many times already. I notice. But I also notice that different people answering the same question can bring different experiences and ideas.

I will ask a Newbie Question: I don't even know exactly what slin does and I worked in the Pharmaceutical Diabetes Field. For me it just crashed your blood sugars, if you weren't careful it could worse case kill you. So I'm very biased against it. What changes does a well run course of slin do to your body? I also thought it just made you big and bloated?

The following is a cut/paste from another forum. Even though it isn't particularly technical, it does a pretty good job of summing up what goes on when you use insulin for bodybuilding.

WHY IS INSULIN ANABOLIC

So why is insulin anabolic then? Insulin is a partitioning agent. A "shuttle" if you will.
Picture insulin as a bus. Nutrients board the bus, and insulin pulls away and drops off the nutrients at the proper bus stop. That is basically what it does, and for all intents and purposes that is everything you need to know to understand how it works.
So by insulin shuttling these nutrient where they need to go, it enables anabolism and is therefor anabolic!


WHY NOT JUST TAKE CARBS TO RAISE INSULIN

Well, the amount of carbs you would need to take in to increase natural insulin levels to the degree a 10 i.u. shot would would be far more dangerous than using insuiln (and using insulin is NOT that hard OR dangerous).
Carbs at that level would eventually lead to diabetes and fat gains.
If insulin is a bus taking nutrients where they need to go, then exogenous insulin is a bullet train! It can hold far more nutrients than a normal naturally produced burst of insulin can, and it works quicker. Exogenous insulin is the most efficient way to accomplish glycogen overcompensation, period.


WHAT KIND DO I TAKE

Im a major supporter of fast acting insulin. The faster the better!
Currently he fastest acting insulin available is Humalog. It is active in 15 minutes, peaks in 1 hour and clears the system around 2 hours.
Next would be Humalin-R. It is active in about 30 minutes, peaks at the 2 hour mark, and clears the system at the 4 hour mark.
"Biophasics" are mixtures of fast and slow acting insulins, but are not the best choice in my opinion, due to an active dose being in you throughout the day. The reason you dont want that will be covered in the "HOW DO I USE IT" section.
There are also Humalin-L and Humalin-S, but they are long acting, and are no more use to me than the Biophasics. There are also porccine and bovine derived insulin, but I am against injecting animal derived substances.

WHEN (AND HOW MUCH) TO USE

Im going to assume we want to avoid any fat gains at all. Even bulking I dont like to gain any unneccesary fat, so Im going to disuss it from that stand point.
The ultra conservative time to use insulin is post-workout. Most people who are concerned about fat dont go over 10 i.u. as a total dose.
Some people us it on waking, before breakfast, since your body is in a basically carb depleted state. Its the kind of thng you have to try for yourslef, and if it works for you, do it. If you thnk youre gaining fat, stop. BUT! Dont start it at both times at once. Make sure you get your post workout dosage worked out and that you know it is not causing you any fat gains before you try pre-breakfast shots. That way you can take out all the guess work as to where any fat gains may come from.


DISPELLING A FEW MYTHS

There is a commoly held perception that you MUSt take in 10grams of carbs per I.U. of insulin, some radicals say 5 grams... well, theyre both wrong.
I got curious about this when I discovered that my insulin dependant diabetic friend didnt even keep track of what she ate post injection. She would feel hypoglycemic after a shot and take a Glucose Tablet.
A glucose tablet is only 5 grams of glucose (carbs)! So I started to think, "Hmmm, mabye everyone is off point on this?"
After conducting a few experiments on myself, I found that you can go considerably lower in carbs than people previously believed.
Now it doesnt make sense to go low in carbs, because that defies the purpose of using the insulin in the first place, but it does free us from having to use so much that there might be some "spill over" in carbs that cant be utilized. So it really makes us able to have more freedom in carbs choices and amounts.
The "risk" in insulin use is not as risky as people believe. Any person with an ounce of sense can see the warning signs of a problem coming, and remedy the situation.

HOW DO I DO IT

If you look at the drug store, you can get these little pen cases that hold a loaded insulin syringe. They are great for our need, you load up the syringe, and put it in the case, and throw it in your bag/purse/whatever. After the workout, head to a bathroom stall and inject it under the skin! Pull up a little skin from the abdomen or upper thigh (anywhere will do, but these are easiest) and inject. Do not shoot into a muscle. This rushes the dose and makes it harder to predict when it will spike.
So now you have 15 minutes to get some carbs (actually you have longer, since the initial hit of the dose is mild and easy to cope with, the spike is a little more harsh, but still nothing unbearable. If you use the carbs, you probobly wont notice the initial dose OR the spike.)
(this is based on Humalog at 10 i.u.)
I use a powder with a 20% simple/80% complex ratio (actually its 17% mono, 5% di, 7% tri, 5%tetra, and 66% penta-saccharides). I use about 60grams of carbs to the 10 i.u. of insulin.
This gives me a nice solid stream of carbs to overcompensate my depleted muscles, but not so many that I risk fat accumulation from the excess.
Now you are good to go till around 1 hour after the initial injection. At this 1 hour mark, the majority of the dose hits your system. Now is the time to eat a good balanced (AND FAT FREE!) meal. The fat-free emphasis will be explained in the POTENTIAL PROBLEMS section. This balance meal of carbs and protien and little to know fat can be anything from a protien drink and a crab drink, to a low fat MRP, to some lean chicken and rice... your choice.
After this meal, you dont need to pay anymore consideration to the insulin, it will gradually decrease and will be out of your system at the 2 hour mark.
Till you get accustmed to the use of insulin, start low and slow. Start at 2 i.u. then 5 i.u. then 7 i.u. then 10 i.u. That way you get a better understanding of any hypoglycemia you may encounter. Ive went as high as 35 i.u., just to try it, but at a certain point a higher dosage doesnt yield any better results (except fat!)

POTENTIAL PROBLEMS

Insulin is relativly safe. If you dont take in any carbs after using it, your body will give you PLENNTY of warning! Youll feel dizzy, tired, achey... hypoglycemic. What is happening is your body has no glycogen to use as fuel. Your muscles re depleted from working out, and often times youve tapped your liver for any remaining glycogen. The insulin does, searching for glycogen to use, takes the rest from your liver, and in the absence of carbs coming in to make more, it heads for the brain.
Your brain uses glucose as its primary fuel source (a little fat, too.) Thats why you get dizzy and light headed, the same with during a ketogenic diet... low glucose equals light headedness.
So if you forget about the carbs, youll get a warning from yuor body, and you can get your ass in gear and get some carbs in you.
If you get to the point where youre nauseated, just drink some sugary beverage and get some carbs in you quickly. Youre still a long long way from any major danger, but dont mess around.
"Fat Free" I said earlier about the 1 hour mark meal. During the 2 hours of the dosage duration, you should avoid fat like it is the plauge! Insulins partitioning properties are as effective at sending fat to the fat stores as it is carbs and protien to muscles!
So till the dose is clear of your system, NO FAT! (Thats another reason why I advocate the fastest acting insulin you can get.

I have found insulin to be a very effective tool for me, especially when combined with GH.

 

[alaski]

norm1220

thank you Norm1220! That was a very interesting read.