once we reach a certain dose ,can we go back to lower dose and grow

[deanabol]

once we have ventured up in doses do you think we can still grow when going back to less ?

 

[maldorf]

once we have ventured up in doses do you think we can still grow when going back to less ?

For the most part I would say no, not unless you change the other parts of your life in the bodybuilding equation. I once was using multiple grams per week to grow and then went to Phil Hernon for training help. Phil made me realize how much I was overtraining and overeating. By training differently and eating less I was able to grow some muscle and lean down when taking less than 1/2 the steroids I had been. So it can be done. Once you peak out and hit a plataue though you cannot grow more unless you change something. Once I peaked and hit a plateau after having Phil's help I again reached that point where I was going to have to increase dosage.

I did find out over my more than 10 yrs of usage that you can maintain what you have on a fairly low dose, but that you cannot go back to being natural again and expect to keep all or most of you gains. I was able to maintain by just cruising on about 250 mg/wk test.

 

[EDED]

awhile ago,,,1500mg total per week to 1000mg,,,i shrank,

next thing i know i was at 1750mg

and didnt shrink and gained.

simple haha.

of course im not taking into many factors like mal is saying which are all good to know

 

[Arcus]

What about after a cycle, and say this person started with 250mg and kept bumping up to 750mg test, then took some required off and naturally lost some of his gains. Now, when he hops back on cycle, wouldn't that person, due to muscle memory, get back to the point he was at before with his 750mg test from a much lower dosage this time starting out again low?

Is it muscle memory that brings it back quick, or was it from receptor saturation that allowed for that person to begin responding to the gear again after some time off?

 

[biggerthanu]

As long as I change it up, I can continue to make gains.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Yes

once we have ventured up in doses do you think we can still grow when going back to less ?

If you train and eat smarter than before yes..............if not, then no.

 

[ssdark1]

if your diet and training are dialed in, then i believe that you are only as big as your dose.

i know for me personally, that i am bigger on 750mg T with crappy diet and training than i am on 400mg T with much better diet training. i know ill prob get flamed a bit for this, but for me but my size is directly related to dose...yea, yea, i know "you dont know what your doing. eat more protein. train DC. eat mountaindog", whatever...i have tried everything possible to max out my size at 500mg T. even if i would slack off a bit....same size....400-500 grams protein....same size....different training styles....same size...bump up dose a bit....weight goes up.

 

[maldorf]

if your diet and training are dialed in, then i believe that you are only as big as your dose.

i know for me personally, that i am bigger on 750mg T with crappy diet and training than i am on 400mg T with much better diet training. i know ill prob get flamed a bit for this, but for me but my size is directly related to dose...yea, yea, i know "you dont know what your doing. eat more protein. train DC. eat mountaindog", whatever...i have tried everything possible to max out my size at 500mg T. even if i would slack off a bit....same size....400-500 grams protein....same size....different training styles....same size...bump up dose a bit....weight goes up.

Yep, if you are truly dialed in and doing everything 100% correct then youre going to find that youre only as big as your dose. Like Phil said above, if your diet and training are not right on then you can make some gains on less. I found that out when he trained me. It was a refreshing change, but it only lasted so long unitl my body hit a plateau again.

 

[EDED]

no man, you are right

flamers probably dont know what they are talking about nor have not touched higher dose

someone named phil said muscle growth is hormone related,,,,i agree, signal tells cells to do things, and more specific the signal to it, better it is (more is better)

if food is used to grow we got alot of things happening, too many signals and almost everyone of them go up with the opposing sig...eventually you stop making muscles and put on fat.

thats my 205 lbs soakin wet experience but im with ya.

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

question, if you were on 500mg of test and you fought your squat from 405 for 10 to 495 for 10....you would be the SAME weight!?

I've always grown based on the weight on the bar growing...but I keep my test low.........

Thoughts???

 

[osiris]

if your diet and training are dialed in, then i believe that you are only as big as your dose.

i know for me personally, that i am bigger on 750mg T with crappy diet and training than i am on 400mg T with much better diet training. i know ill prob get flamed a bit for this, but for me but my size is directly related to dose...yea, yea, i know "you dont know what your doing. eat more protein. train DC. eat mountaindog", whatever...i have tried everything possible to max out my size at 500mg T. even if i would slack off a bit....same size....400-500 grams protein....same size....different training styles....same size...bump up dose a bit....weight goes up.

My experience is exactly the same. I can eat a little bit 'looser' and have a higher dose and be leaner than i am at a lower dose with a stricter diet too.

I truly believe that your genetics determine a ton and then after that, hormones come into play=-)

 

[Gunsmith]

if diet and training are the same and you have reached your peak then i would say no.

If your eating and training have maxed out your genetic potential then you up the dose to 500mg/wk and gain say 3 solid pounds and you "plaute" their then you either up the dose or stay the same.

From what i have seen and heard it was explained like this.

500mg additional hormone supports X amount of muscle , once you max that out then growth will slow to a crawl or halt , then you up the dose to 1000mg hormone and that added will support X amount more muscle then the same thing happens
Say you work your way up to 2000mg/wk and max out for growth , you take time off you will come back down to the point where you started as the natural hormone production will only support that much lean mass , when you start back up you go back to where you left off and the muscle memory will rebound the muscle to where it was with that much hormone.

This was explained to me by a couple folks who have been doing this for alot longer than I have and i have seen this actualy happen slightly.

 

[ssdark1]

question, if you were on 500mg of test and you fought your squat from 405 for 10 to 495 for 10....you would be the SAME weight!?

I've always grown based on the weight on the bar growing...but I keep my test low.........

Thoughts???

FOR ME....after training for a few years, my squat isnt going to make a 90lb jump while the dose stays at 500mg.

 

[ssdark1]

if your diet and training are dialed in, then i believe that you are only as big as your dose.

i know for me personally, that i am bigger on 750mg T with crappy diet and training than i am on 400mg T with much better diet training. i know ill prob get flamed a bit for this, but for me but my size is directly related to dose...yea, yea, i know "you dont know what your doing. eat more protein. train DC. eat mountaindog", whatever...i have tried everything possible to max out my size at 500mg T. even if i would slack off a bit....same size....400-500 grams protein....same size....different training styles....same size...bump up dose a bit....weight goes up.

to be clear i have nothing against dc training, or mountaindog diet.

big fan of mountain dog diet.

 

[deanabol]

sadly ,i have found the same .

i got a bit carried away a year or so ago with doses and was my heaviest weight ever ,i was then struck with some health issues and have since dropped my dose considerably and cannot regain that weight

 

[Scott21]

if your diet and training are dialed in, then i believe that you are only as big as your dose.

i know for me personally, that i am bigger on 750mg T with crappy diet and training than i am on 400mg T with much better diet training. i know ill prob get flamed a bit for this, but for me but my size is directly related to dose...yea, yea, i know "you dont know what your doing. eat more protein. train DC. eat mountaindog", whatever...i have tried everything possible to max out my size at 500mg T. even if i would slack off a bit....same size....400-500 grams protein....same size....different training styles....same size...bump up dose a bit....weight goes up.

I cant totally relate, but I can see where you are coming from! You know what works for you, and that is that period.