One carb meal on training day

[juggy38]

If you were gonna have one carb meal on a lift day would you put it pre or PWO?


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[dorian123]

I would have to say preworkout so you have energy to get through it

 

[infinity1]

If you were gonna have one carb meal on a lift day would you put it pre or PWO?


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If your training first thing in the morning i would say post...otherwise pre

 

[spinyvegeta]

Pre always for carbs. Protein always post.

 

[JonnyO]

Me personally, last meal before bed.

 

[goonstopher]

Me personally, last meal before bed.

Well this stirs the pot... ha

 

[ryanbCXG]

Me personally, last meal before bed.

This

 

[juggy38]

see, I read all these article that reference studies to show why pre or post is superior.

pre only- higher insulin levels, more energy, less MPB, therefore higher NET protein synthesis. Also we now know 50g whey isolate stimulates plenty of insulin to completely halt MPB and achieve maximal protein synthesis without the need for carbs. So we don't inhibit Fatty oxidation pwo. Staying depleted keeps insulin sensitivity high, so when we do eat carbs they still are partitioned well.

post only- Training low carb might have some of the similar adaptive effects that fasted training does.

Copied from leangains.com, written by Martin Berkhan:

Glucose tolerance and insulin sensitivity: These are basically two sides of the same coin. Glucose tolerance is correlated with insulin sensitivity and vice versa. Both are important health markers when it comes to determining metabolic health and predisposition, or lack thereof, to metabolic syndrome. In summary, F clearly improved glucose tolerance and insulin sensitivity. C did too - but to a much lesser degree than F.

GLUT4: Glucose transporter type 4 is a protein responsible for insulin-regulated glucose transport into the muscle cell. It increased by a whopping 28% in F but only 2-3% in C (not mentioned in the paper but this is my estimate based on the graphs). This partly explains why F saw superior results in regards to glucose tolerance and insulin sensitivity.

Since GLUT4 is triggered by AMPK, which is increased when glucose availability is low, i.e. during fasted training, one would assume the GLUT4 increase could then be explained by an increase in AMPK. This was found to be true: AMPK increased by 25% in F, which correlated closely with the increase in GLUT4 content.

Muscle glycogen and intramuscular lipid stores (IMCL): Much like your muscle mass stores carbs as glycogen, it also acts as a reservoir for fatty acids. From memory, an average adult has approximately 1800 calories (reference forthcoming if I can find it) worth of fatty acids stored in muscle. In contrast to muscle glycogen, which is preferentially used during high intensity activities, IMCL is used during lower intensity activities.

Similar to the study I covered in this article, muscle glycogen stores increased more in F than in C. However, no significant difference was found in IMCL storage.

Metabolic enzymes: Very fittingly, the same group of enzymes that were investigated in the study I covered in "Fasted Training Boosts Endurance and Muscle Glycogen" were looked at here.

Interestingly, changes in citrate synthase and HAD, two markers for fuel-utilization efficiency, were not different between F and C. However, two other important markers for glucose and fat metabolism, FAT/CD36 and CPT1, were increased by ~30% in F. C saw no increase at all.

Body composition: Now this is very interesting. Despite overfeeding the subjects with 1000 calories or more, F only gained 0.7 kg. From a scientific standpoint, this is deemed insignificant. That is, the gain could likely be attributed to chance or, very likely, fluctuations in body weight due to increased muscle glycogen. This lack of weight gain in F could not be explained by the training regimen. They were still overfed by 15-20% when accounting for the extra activity. This left the subjects with a theoretical surplus of 650 calories per day, on average, which should have resulted in weight gain equivalent to ~3.5 kg after six weeks.

What about C? They gained 1.4 kg, twice as much as F, despite doing the same amount of exercise and consuming the same amount of calories and macronutrients.

Exercise capacity: Time to exhaustion increased to a similar magnitude in both groups (+15%). However, C saw a greater increase in VO2Max. On the other hand, "FATmax," maximal rate of fat oxidation, increased to a much greater degree in F, with no increase in C.


Then there is at last meal: as the day goes on fat cells become more insulin resistant, therefore if you eat carbs only pre bed, they will be shuttled to the depleted muscles, help you sleep, and you get a bigger bost in leptin.


See I just have OCD painic attacks trying to place my carbs lol. I know in the grand scheme of things its being in a deficit, having a NET negative fat balance at the end of the day and doing everything to preserve muscle tissue, I just like to read a lot too lol.

 

[Cerberus777]

Me personally, last meal before bed.

If only one I do this, only 2...I stretch it out pre/intra workout.

 

[Chode Logan]

I dont think I would do that, but if I did I would be torn between pre and post...pre sounds better to train but I did the no carbs for rest of day post training thing once and recovery was dog shit and was the worst stupidest diet technique I have ever tried...I would probably choose post.

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[Google&Pubmed]

Me personally, last meal before bed.

This or pre-workout.

If it's a cheat meal always make it the last meal before your heaviest workout day (as in the night before the big day).

 

[JonnyO]

I think we need to train according to our nutrition. If your recovery is sub par and your dieting on low cals and low carbs, BUT training with high intensity, well what do you expect?

If I was going low to no carbs during the day, I take in alot of Aminos starting before my workout and intra. Obviously fat loss is the goal so Id prefer to keep the fatburning going during and after exercise rather than spike my insulin levels for my workout. Ive been doing this lately, focusing on diet and cardio mainly, my workouts are brief but good. So my recovery isnt much of an issue as far as weight training. But I do start to feel the cardio take its toll, and when that happens I will add more carbs (high gi) in last meal of the day or if its bad and my legs are heavy and Im dragging my ass I'll have a cheat meal.

This way keeps me in tune with my body, I know what to expect and how I should look and when. And it keeps me motivated knowing theres some carb at the end of the day for me....no better way to go to bed than having a good serving of carbs!

 

[sammy555]

I would do either pre bed the night before to replenish glycogen or post workout. If training next day as well id hold out until bed. I love traing carbles even bulking. so much stronger and more consistant energy. Pre workout is the only carbles meal I eat ever.

Going carbles after workout did good things to my physique but I was in such a fucking bad mood it was unreal. Half a box of rice krisbies with whey post workout is my staple now whatever my goals. I'd rather be happy and diet a bit longer

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[hilly2008]

It depends on the goal n were body is.

If on track with prep id have it pre.


If behind id have it post post meal

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[Sandpig]

I train first thing in the am so I'd go last meal before bed also. But even on low carbs, I'd rather spread them through the day.

 

[newbadgenes]

might have to try the pre bed carbs. Seems I struggle during the night with cravings and wake up a couple times if I do lower carbs all day. To the point that ive been cheating and then I get up and Im all pissed off because I ate a bunch of carbs in the middle of the night. Im figuring that's whats stopping me from fine tweaking the abs coming in

 

[j-pet]

Me personally, last meal before bed.

Protein and fats all day, I get my energy from mcts and sat fats .... Carbs at night for recovery and helps me sleep.

 

[jrock00123]

Me personally, last meal before bed.

Not sure, but I assume you mean the night of training. I would alternatively suggest the night prior. This way your body has plenty of time replenish glycogen reserves. So you go without carbs on training day, but eat plenty before bed the night before.

The above assumes you are off the follow day. If you are training the next day, I would eat carbs last meal again to repeat the cycle. This is basically an extreme version of carb backloading.

 

[mewalrus]

Then there is at last meal: as the day goes on fat cells become more insulin resistant, therefore if you eat carbs only pre bed, they will be shuttled to the depleted muscles, help you sleep, and you get a bigger bost in leptin.

WOW
Thats a GREAT paper! Is counter to the prevailing "common sense" logic. However this would only apply for glycogen depleted people, which I would assume most dieting BB's to be.

The only question would be, Do fat cells become more insulin resistant throughout the day when the day is low carb/low insulin?

Protein and fats all day, I get my energy from mcts and sat fats .... Carbs at night for recovery and helps me sleep.

I guess some are following this protocol, I have to try it.

 

[juggy38]

WOW

Thats a GREAT paper! Is counter to the prevailing "common sense" logic. However this would only apply for glycogen depleted people, which I would assume most dieting BB's to be.



The only question would be, Do fat cells become more insulin resistant throughout the day when the day is low carb/low insulin?







I guess some are following this protocol, I have to try it.

Well your daily activity will pull liver and muscle glycogen stores down a little. So if you go all day in a caloric deficit eating protein and fats, your last meal will be stored better than if you ate it at lunch.


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