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Opinions on DRX-9000 for treating herniated discs

I'm at the point where the option of doing nothing isn't so much of an option for me. Surgery is not something I want to have happen, especially given my other spinal disease: the chances of it working are slim.

Am I not thinking straight on this?

I've got a similar situation myself, due for surgery later this year to try and correct my back (third year with the injury now). Have a couple of lumbar herniations.

A disc hernia will do one of three things, get better (i.e. withdraw back into the spinal cavity), do nothing or get much worse.

The phsyical protrusion of the disc pressing onto the nerves is what causes the issues. You can try and mitigate the factors somewhat, but thats it. Ultimately if it hasn't healed itself within a year or so it's never going to. Some of the disc matter has to be removed to relieve the pressue on the nerve. The nerve isn't the issue, the disc is. The long term problems arise from the nerve becoming 'used' to the disc pressue, so when it is released the nerve continutes to misbehave and you still experience weakness or pain. Damned if you do, damned if you don't really.

I do feel for you, a disc herniation affects you in a real evil way. Get your scans done and see a good consultant about it.
 
Update - long, sorry.

Quick History - gives you an idea of the state of medical care for back problems.

Drop back to early November: plenty of pain. Go over to The Cleveland Clinic Spine Institute, and meet with a Doctor Lynn Jedlicka. Tell her that I'm having tremendous low back pain; in fact, I have spasms while examines me. She orders x-rays of my thoracic pine. Refuses to consider that there's anything happening with the lumbar spine. Refuses to listen to my symptoms. Tells me all this pain is from DISH. Tells me, in no uncertain terms that I cannot see a chiropractor.

Gives me Rx for OxaProzin and Skelaxin.

Symptoms continue, deep tissue work is helping, but I get frustrated and meet with Doctor Livingston . Doc Livingston actually listens to all my symptoms, catalogs them, and begins diagnostic tests, including a muscle function test and lumbar spine x-rays. The x-rays show DISH has progressed; also show some potential issues with discs. One manual test, where I turn my left foot outward at the ankle, and attempt to hold it there against pressure, indicates a muscle function problem, which is typically a symptom of an impinged nerve at L5-S1.

Doc L. orders an MRI, to be conducted at Advantage Diagnostics . One of the staff radiologists reads the MRI, and determines that L2-L3 and L5-S1 are herniated, with nerve impingement at L5-S1; forgive my laziness, but MRI results are in the Taco truck, and I don't feel like walking outside to see which of the staff radiologists did the work. Perhaps later, when I go out to piss in the snow.

Doc L reads the MRI as well, and shows me where the impingement is located.

I kick around the idea of doing decompression. The big problem is that it's not covered by insurance, and I really wasn't prepared for a $6,000.00 outlay - that will put a crimp in the hookers-n-heroin budget for sure.

However: I'm tired of taking pain meds. I'm tired of being stuck at low weights in my events. I'm especially disappointed in myself because I can't effectively hike. Remember: I bought my house because of its location in the National Park, and its proximity to hiking trails. There's so many places that I love to hike, and have not been able to in 2+ years. It's beginning to impact who I am.

I've also tried PT, I've tried other less drastic chiropractic. I don't want to consider surgery.

I go to an MD for a second opinion, an MD who comes highly recommended, Dr.Hyo Kim in Warren, OH. During the initial consult, he takes a history, does some manual diagnostics, reviews a copy of the radiologist report, and schedules an EMG to determine specific nerve involvement. Rx for methyl-pred to help with the inflammation.

I then go for another opinion to Doctor DeMicco, who comes highly recommended by a couple buddies. He's pretty high up on the food chain at The Cleveland Clinic, in the Spine Institute.

His intern conducts a quick history and manual exam. He repeatedly ignores my symptoms involving leg and plantar fasciitis pain; keeps saying "Let's get back to the back pain. You've had back pain for 30 years." I keep telling him that this is different. He completely ignores my concerns about the manual diagnostic test for my foot, as well as my complaints about controlling that foot while hiking.

We reach an impass, with him suggesting that I take NSAIDs and do some PT, and that nothing else is going on.

He wisely leaves the exam room before I throttle his skinny little neck.

Dr. DeMicco enters, and he begins to listen to me. I emphatically (and I mean shout - and those of you who know me in person know what that means) that these symptoms are new, and that they impact my legs, and that I can't hike, and that I'm not taking the answer of NSAIDs. He explains that, in his read of the MRI, there is no nerve impingement from the disc herniation.

He thinks that what is going on is that the nerves are getting irritated where they exit the spine. He explains that they exit through two small holes, and those holes have probably closed up a bit with age, and the nerves rub against the walls when I stand.

Nonetheless, he RX's me gabapentin, we talk about PT, and schedule follow ups.

Which brings me up to Wednesday, 2/9, and the EMG with Dr. Kim. According to Dr. Kim, there is extensive nerve damage in the lower left leg - to the point where he doesn't understand how I am able to walk, and realizes that I'm fighting through some pain. Likewise, the upper left, in the region of the adductor, tests out badly.

Dr. Kim recommends immediate surgery to save the nerve. We discuss the decompression strategy, and he says that he doesn't understand how it works, but that it might work - he doesn't know. He also says that we can retake the EMG test in 2-3 months to see if there's any change.

For some reason, this news hit me hard, dropping me as sure as a cattle prod to my nuts, but without the tall blond dominatrix to lend some perspective to the pain.

Whew. That covers the various doctors, and outlines my overall strategy.


*

I just finished the 4th session of decompression.

The sessions go like this: laser treatment, then decompression, then laser treatment, then chiropractic adjustments - sometimes SI work, sometimes flexion-distraction. Sometimes have to hit things like the left ankle, which doesn't support me too well because of my missing muscle control.

I feel incredibly better. Today was a real turning point in how my back / hips / legs felt.

I was able to walk for 40 minutes, Average HR 130, with no pain. My dogs loved it. I loved it. I'm pain free after walking.

If anybody wants more details, feel free to PM me. Also, the above is cross-posted from my blog. I don't want to appear like I'm spamming this board, so I'm not posting a link. If you want that, just PM me.

Thanks for reading.
 
Quick Update

Oh. My. God.

Fifth session completed.

I did not know how much pain I was in - this is simply amazing. I understand why that MD said I shouldn't be able to walk - I have been struggling to walk for years, and since it crept up gradually, and I'm stubborn, I did not know how bad it was.

My only regret about shelling out $6k for the treatment is that I did not do this years ago. I would have had a much better life, and I bet I would have been able to train more effectively and move more weight in my sport.
 
Oh. My. God.

Fifth session completed.

I did not know how much pain I was in - this is simply amazing. I understand why that MD said I shouldn't be able to walk - I have been struggling to walk for years, and since it crept up gradually, and I'm stubborn, I did not know how bad it was.

My only regret about shelling out $6k for the treatment is that I did not do this years ago. I would have had a much better life, and I bet I would have been able to train more effectively and move more weight in my sport.

I am glad this is working and have gotten relief.Please keep us posted how this works not only short term but in coming months also.

I am still not comfortable recommending this to patients for this type of cost.But would like to hear about your results and if you get continued relief.
I also would love to see what an MRI reveals months after your treatment ends.Good luck and keep us posted ,please.
 
I am glad this is working and have gotten relief.Please keep us posted how this works not only short term but in coming months also.

I am still not comfortable recommending this to patients for this type of cost.But would like to hear about your results and if you get continued relief.
I also would love to see what an MRI reveals months after your treatment ends.Good luck and keep us posted ,please.

Thanks, brother - I will. I understand & respect your hesitation, and know that you have the welfare of your patients foremost in your heart and mind.

I'm torn on the subject of a follow-up MRI. My current MRI was read by one radiologist as "herniation of L5-S1 with impression on the nerve". Another radiologist read it as "No nerve impression from herniation, which is a minimal bulge."

So let me ask you: is this common to get such different interpretations from the same MRI? If so, what good is an MRI as a diagnostic tool?

What's your take on EMGs as a diagnostic tool?
 
Thanks, brother - I will. I understand & respect your hesitation, and know that you have the welfare of your patients foremost in your heart and mind.

I'm torn on the subject of a follow-up MRI. My current MRI was read by one radiologist as "herniation of L5-S1 with impression on the nerve". Another radiologist read it as "No nerve impression from herniation, which is a minimal bulge."

So let me ask you: is this common to get such different interpretations from the same MRI? If so, what good is an MRI as a diagnostic tool?

What's your take on EMGs as a diagnostic tool?

No,that is not common as most radiologist are pretty thorough at reading and interpreting MRI's especially as those are so detailed.

EMG's are best in my opinion to CONFIRM what is suspected or diagnosed by other tests. ex. If i have many things pointing and confirming a certain nerve impingement and then an EMG would confirm by showing less/abnormal activity at the muscle innervated by the particular nerve being impinged etc...
 
Last edited:
Would you consider before & after EMG's, taken on the left leg, as good evidence that this procedure worked? The initial EMG revealed so much nerve damage that the MD said "I've never seen anybody able to walk with this amount of damage. You must have a very high tolerance for pain."

How long after treatment would the follow-up EMG have to be?

Thanks for talking about this - I figure if I can convince you that the procedure worked, I can convince myself that it worked. So keep the criticism coming.
 
Update

Before.

Pain in low back, radiating down into left leg to toe. Loss of muscle control in left ankle. Loss of strength in left side. Pain was pretty constant, sometimes while sitting, anytime after I stood / walked for 30-45 minutes. After 10-15 minutes of walking, I'd find it very hard to move my left leg, and would have to swing it from the hip.

Diagnosis / Treatment

MRI: Radiologist A said disc herniation L5/S1 w/ nerve impingement. Radiologist B said no nerve impingement from disc, but from stenosis where nerve exits the spine.

EMG: revealed "severe" nerve damage in left leg. MD looked at me and said "In 25 years of doing this, I've never seen anybody with this much nerve damage be able to withstand the pain, let alone walk."

Failed ankle eversion, sartorius, hamstring tests on left leg, along with registering 30% ROM in spinal extension, flexion, rotation.

Did a 6 week course of decompression on the DRX-9000. Each treatment consisted of cold laser first, then a ride on the DRX, followed by more cold laser, and a hands-chiropractic manipulation. Supplemented with additional weekly sessions of KMI Structural Integration Deep Tissue work.

After

Manual tests show only weakness in ankle eversion; only limit on my spine is about 85% flexion / extension.

Starting to ease back into training.

450lb back squat for 5 reps
605lb DL
5 reps to 50" with 22" 275lb stone
315lb front squat for 3 reps

are some of the numbers I've posted since coming back. Nothing amazing, but some pretty decent work for a 50 year old fat cripple.

Pain is completely gone. I have better much better muscle control in the left leg, can walk normally, and can stay on my feet as long as I want. I still have a glaring weakness in the left side; dynamic events (yoke, farmers, tire, etc) are going to be a long time coming back, if ever. I still have problems controlling my left ankle/foot.

Overall, I'd say the DRX treatment as done by my chiropractor was a success.
 

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