OPTIMAL amount of protein

[traininsane11]

I honestly don't know that much about it and haven't heard anyone even talk about it.
Studies?

Nor me but my friend who’s the owner and creator of all the Strom sports products (one of the biggest UK based bodybuilding supps companies) was I believe the first to add it into whey protein I will link the product with some studies linked within it

VelosiWHEY - 40 servings

VelosiWHEY - a revolutionary protein blend comprising of 80% whey concentrate and 20% casein. VelosiWHEY goes the extra mile by adding lactase enzyme to aid lactose digestion, making it a gentle and easily digestible option for everyone. What truly sets VelosiWHEY apart though is the inclusion...

www.stromsports.com

 

[traininsane11]

“Technically” one could measure serum amino acid levels and total nitrogen excreted in a 24 hour urine sample if they wanted to have a good idea of “if” and to the degree they are wasting.

I find the digestive rule much easier though. Lol

I don’t believe in high protein on re-feed or high days anymore though. I once did. Carbohydrates ability to be protein sparing offsets enough to be able to just flip the macros from protein to carbs on those high days.

I think this is a good topic and discussion as there is this new influencer push from some trying to peddle lower protein as the next fad. I don’t agree with that. I also don’t think we need as much protein as some of the older school bodybuilders ate.

I will add for anyone who says they don’t like eating protein- you’re cooking it wrong. I have two smokers and multiple grills. There’s nothing better than properly prepared meat IMO. So maybe I am biased on this subject.

Just to second that last bit. Properly cooked and seasoned chicken, beef and pork (not expertly either just not like an idiot IE over cooked) is some of my absolute favourite meals! Literally get fired up to eat a plate full of grilled chicken on prep

 

[bbxtreme]

Nor me but my friend who’s the owner and creator of all the Strom sports products (one of the biggest UK based bodybuilding supps companies) was I believe the first to add it into whey protein I will link the product with some studies linked within it

VelosiWHEY - 40 servings

VelosiWHEY - a revolutionary protein blend comprising of 80% whey concentrate and 20% casein. VelosiWHEY goes the extra mile by adding lactase enzyme to aid lactose digestion, making it a gentle and easily digestible option for everyone. What truly sets VelosiWHEY apart though is the inclusion...

www.stromsports.com

14.3% increase in MPS from adding the complex to BCAA or whey. Looks intriguing.

Effects of Whey Protein Combined with Amylopectin/Chromium on the Muscle Protein Synthesis and mTOR Phosphorylation in Exercised Rats - PubMed

This study aimed to examine the impact of varying doses of whey protein (WP) and amylopectin/chromium complex (ACr) supplementation on muscle protein synthesis (MPS), amino acid and insulin levels, and the rapamycin (mTOR) signaling pathways in exercised rats. A total of 72 rats were randomly...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[luki7788]

Sound like expensive energy and urea. Only so much protein can be utilized for muscle building and repair, if 20-25 grams of high quality of protein has been shown to "maximize" MPS then we can probably add some to that to account for anabolics and guys with high muscle mass, I still see 400+ grams of protein daily pretty much being mostly wasted, how much? Nobody knows?

I don't know - I only know that when I ate about 420-450g (I only count proteins from sources, I don't lose them) of protein I had the greatest strength and muscle mass

whereas now when I eat about 330g I have definitely lost some size but above all a lot of strength

 

[Cerberus777]

IMHO you need the gear,calories and stimulus to utilize 2g per lbs. I don't think we need more than that ever. Most would do ok on 1.5g per lbs.

 

[Swifto]

Sound like expensive energy and urea. Only so much protein can be utilized for muscle building and repair, if 20-25 grams of high quality of protein has been shown to "maximize" MPS then we can probably add some to that to account for anabolics and guys with high muscle mass, I still see 400+ grams of protein daily pretty much being mostly wasted, how much? Nobody knows?

MPS is only half the coin, what about preventing protein breakdown?

I think the answer is somewhere between 1-2g per lb, probably of LBM, not total weight.

But who really got to pro size not pushing 350-500g+ protein per day? Has anyone come forward stating they only used 100-200g protein per day and are Open size? I doubt it.

 

[Stewie]

14.3% increase in MPS from adding the complex to BCAA or whey. Looks intriguing.

Effects of Whey Protein Combined with Amylopectin/Chromium on the Muscle Protein Synthesis and mTOR Phosphorylation in Exercised Rats - PubMed

This study aimed to examine the impact of varying doses of whey protein (WP) and amylopectin/chromium complex (ACr) supplementation on muscle protein synthesis (MPS), amino acid and insulin levels, and the rapamycin (mTOR) signaling pathways in exercised rats. A total of 72 rats were randomly...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Wouldn't adding a few grams of L-Leucine with a meal pretty much do the same thing?

 

[bbxtreme]

Wouldn't adding a few grams of L-Leucine with a meal pretty much do the same thing?

I personally would believe so. I don’t really buy into fad or trademarked ingredients. Was just posting the study here for others.

I would be more concerned with source of protein and amino acid profiles personally.

 

[Stewie]

I personally would believe so. I don’t really buy into fad or trademarked ingredients. Was just posting the study here for others.

I would be more concerned with source of protein and amino acid profiles personally.

Same here. Anymore there's a new spin on just about anything imaginable that's decades old. I'm not trendy.

I believe there's been studies that assessed adding L-Leucine with lowish protein meals to increase MPS.

Maybe a fella could get the best of both worlds by adding amylopectin (type of carb) with L-Leucine, with a low macro (protein/carb) meal?

At soon to be 60 y/o, I don't have the appetite that I used to. I still get in decent amounts of macros on most days. Not always

 

[Doitagain]

Nor me but my friend who’s the owner and creator of all the Strom sports products (one of the biggest UK based bodybuilding supps companies) was I believe the first to add it into whey protein I will link the product with some studies linked within it

VelosiWHEY - 40 servings

VelosiWHEY - a revolutionary protein blend comprising of 80% whey concentrate and 20% casein. VelosiWHEY goes the extra mile by adding lactase enzyme to aid lactose digestion, making it a gentle and easily digestible option for everyone. What truly sets VelosiWHEY apart though is the inclusion...

www.stromsports.com

This BS has actually been around for MANY years now and nobody cares anymore.
Why? Because it never made any difference whatsoever. The lame studies are all on rats besides one that used a suboptimal dose of whey protein (6 grams LOL). Surprised to see this gimmick still around.

I don't know - I only know that when I ate about 420-450g (I only count proteins from sources, I don't lose them) of protein I had the greatest strength and muscle mass

whereas now when I eat about 330g I have definitely lost some size but above all a lot of strength

At my level of development I start LOSING size if I go below 1.5grams/ lbs , and quickly. No matter how hard I push carbs and slin.

 

[bbxtreme]

I believe there's been studies that assessed adding L-Leucine with lowish protein meals to increase MPS.

Maybe a fella could get the best of both worlds by adding amylopectin (type of carb) with L-Leucine, with a low macro (protein/carb) meal?

At soon to be 60 y/o, I don't have the appetite that I used to. I still get in decent amounts of macros on most days. Not always

For people who have trouble getting enough protein in I have them sip on flavored EAA’s throughout the day.

Or I’ll even use them at the tail end of a fast to push it a little further.

The key is utilizing more of the protein consumed, not trying to pound more down.

 

[Flocci]

Also remember that Justin harris, and others, only count protein from high quality protein sources like meats, eggwhites and dairy. he doesnt count the protein from rice, potatoes and other lower quality protein sources.

Most people i knoe personally count everything as a total of protein, So its important to take that into context when we are discussing this too.


I was surprised that you guys saw a negative trend when swapping the protein calories for carbs. Was this in a deficit, surplus or maintenance intake of calories? I wonder if that makes a difference. Ive always kept my protein at 3-4g/kg myself but ive been curious to experiment with less just to save some money. Dont think i will lower it under 3g/kg though.

 

[Corgopop]

Why are more people not doing extremely high protein diets?

Looking at studies, there seems to be almost zero adverse outcomes a surplus of protein. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5786199/#!po=0.694444 I just found this study today and it’s super interesting. People partaking in resistance training all lost fat AND gained muscle in a...

www.professionalmuscle.com

Wanted to add this to the thread, an older thread I started which may make a case for higher protein.

Unrelated to that, I remember hearing some coaches adding t3 in offseason to increase protein turnover. I wonder if this is a factor as well to some intake levels.

 

[warlock]

For people who have trouble getting enough protein in I have them sip on flavored EAA’s throughout the day.

Do you recommend a certain amount of EAAs for this?

 

[aHarness]

Do you recommend a certain amount of EAAs for this?

I would imagine just enough to allow them to hit their protein goals without struggling to get it all in. So it’s going to vary person to person.

 

[bbxtreme]

Do you recommend a certain amount of EAAs for this?

I like 20g EAA around workout and for those who can’t get as much protein in I will have them sip on another 20g through the day tops. That can be split up around meals or around any fasted windows.

It sounds like such a simple concept, but everything I suggest it to people they look at me like I just discovered gold. LOL

People love crystal light and sweet beverages so why not make use of that and maximize your foods with your flu dose by mixing them with EAA’s.

 

[heavyhitter]

And which will have a greater effect on MPS? Protein or carbs/ insulin (carbs causing higher insulin release)

Gotta go with the carbs. Once sufficient protein is achieved…add carbs

 

[heavyhitter]

Sound like expensive energy and urea. Only so much protein can be utilized for muscle building and repair, if 20-25 grams of high quality of protein has been shown to "maximize" MPS then we can probably add some to that to account for anabolics and guys with high muscle mass, I still see 400+ grams of protein daily pretty much being mostly wasted, how much? Nobody knows?

Funny you say that…because when I was eating 2-2.5 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight…..I reeked of Windex all the time, especially when sweating. To the point that it would actually bleach the color from my gym shirts

 

[need4tren]

people will make an argument for whatever side they want to do. We look at studies and we deem what is optimal, and when it fits are side we will say “well this was done on natural athletes, us on gear can handle more” but they are the same guys who all preach lower protein.

When we look at hands on experience, guys who were eating 12 oz of meat back in the day grew the most muscle, and they were the biggest freaks. If your on anabolics. You can utilize more protein. It’s just no one wants to eat 12 oz of meat and 16 oz of fish. Me included lol.

I only do about 200g of meat per meal, because I find that an enjoyable amount, but I absolutely know if I was eating 300-350g I would put more muscle on, I have it the past and I did grow way faster. But I rather enjoy my meals then dread them

 

[Doitagain]

I like 20g EAA around workout and for those who can’t get as much protein in I will have them sip on another 20g through the day tops. That can be split up around meals or around any fasted windows.

It sounds like such a simple concept, but everything I suggest it to people they look at me like I just discovered gold. LOL

People love crystal light and sweet beverages so why not make use of that and maximize your foods with your flu dose by mixing them with EAA’s.

I'm a big fan of EAA's in many different scenarios.
When used to make up for an insufficient daily protein intake, I'd use them right before meals rather than sipping 'em through the day.
There is a restricted temporal profile by which EAAs achieve anabolism; after a latency of ∼1 h after intake of EAA, MPS rates are elevated for ∼1.5 h before returning to fasting levels. This occurs -even in the face of continued availability of circulating EAAs-, the so called “muscle-full” phenomenon.