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Optimal Estrogen Levels...(E2 primarily)

Knight9

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Ok.....I want to hear your educated input and why fellas. Regardless of whether a man is doing 150mg TRT or 700, 1000, 1500+mg of test, we should all be acknowledging the fact that estrogen WREAKS HAVOC if left uncontrolled. Some guys think that estrogen elevation is not a big deal because they don't experience sides...but that is definitely not intelligent or healthy thinking. Also, eventually, as we all get older-estrogen starts to effect us in ways that it once may not have. It's a very delicate hormone, since allowing it to creep too high - or controlling it too much and driving it too low can both be a nightmare.

I don't want to call anyone out, but one member mentioned in a post last week that estrogen basically should be 1/10 of your dose if you control it correctly with an AI...as if 750mg being used would equate to an E2(estradiol) of 75. Long story short, he mentioned that E2 is more appropriately viewed as a RATIO rather than kept in an "optimal" RANGE. Supposedly, optimal E2 levels would give you moderate to severe symptoms of chronically low estrogen. I have personally gone back and forth on this as I have heard him mention it before but after consulting with some people I respect, I find it to be possibly far-fetched and without substance.

I believe optimal E2 levels are approx 21-37 (I believe Dante stated this somewhere but could not find it in a quick search.) I hope he chimes in here.

Other minds....what do you think and why?
 
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the normal estradiol range is 13-54 pg/mL - but "normal" young men are at the low end of the range and that's where you want to be as well.

Life Extension recommends that men maintain estradiol levels between 21.8 and 30.1 pg/mL. Increased stroke and coronary atherosclerosis and prostate cancer becomes more of a burden with high estradiol as we age:

Dangers of Excess Estrogen in the Aging Male - Life Extension

... in a study published two years ago, researchers discovered that when “estradiol is added to testosterone treatment of rats, prostate cancer incidence is markedly increased and even a short course of estrogen treatment results in a high incidence of prostate cancer.”

also ...high levels of estradiol can cause the down-regulation of androgen receptors.

this means that your body may respond to higher levels of estradiol by creating fewer androgen receptors as cells are replaced in normal regeneration. in other words, not only does estradiol block the available androgen receptors, it causes your body to produce fewer of them in the future.

one reason why raising testosterone levels may not have an immediate effect may be that your receptors have down-regulated and so you'll need to lower estradiol (ying and yang)

higher E2 is created when higher doses of T begin the aromatase process. things known to increase aromatase activity include age, obesity, insulin, gonadotropins and alcohol. weekly or less frequent injections create T spikes followed by spikes in E2 aromatization. (higher body fat percentage = higher percentage chance for aromatase)



P.S.


***your T can't do you much good if your androgen receptors are bound with estradiol***

This information is not meant to diagnose or treat any health issues and is for entertainment purposes only.
 

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the normal estradiol range is 13-54 pg/mL - but "normal" young men are at the low end of the range and that's where you want to be as well.

Life Extension recommends that men maintain estradiol levels between 21.8 and 30.1 pg/mL. Increased stroke and coronary atherosclerosis and prostate cancer becomes more of a burden with high estradiol as we age:

Dangers of Excess Estrogen in the Aging Male - Life Extension

... in a study published two years ago, researchers discovered that when “estradiol is added to testosterone treatment of rats, prostate cancer incidence is markedly increased and even a short course of estrogen treatment results in a high incidence of prostate cancer.”

also ...high levels of estradiol can cause the down-regulation of androgen receptors.

this means that your body may respond to higher levels of estradiol by creating fewer androgen receptors as cells are replaced in normal regeneration. in other words, not only does estradiol block the available androgen receptors, it causes your body to produce fewer of them in the future.

one reason why raising testosterone levels may not have an immediate effect may be that your receptors have down-regulated and so you'll need to lower estradiol (ying and yang)

higher E2 is created when higher doses of T begin the aromatase process. things known to increase aromatase activity include age, obesity, insulin, gonadotropins and alcohol. weekly or less frequent injections create T spikes followed by spikes in E2 aromatization. (higher body fat percentage = higher percentage chance for aromatase)



P.S.


***your T can't do you much good if your androgen receptors are bound with estradiol***

This information is not meant to diagnose or treat any health issues and is for entertainment purposes only.

Thank you so much for these information !!! For years I have been searching to find info like that.
 
I try to keep mine around 30pg/ml. Anytime it goes higher the sides kick in. Keeping my e2 in range has been the hardest thing to do. I can't tell you how many times I raised and lowered my Ai, went for blood work. I gave up trying to dial in my Ai dose. I now run 100mgs of test a wk and no Ai. I feel great no more shitty sides like crying when i watch a cartoon lol.It also keeps the sides down when I run it with Tren,deca ect.. The only advice I can give is dial in your Ai get your E2 in range and don't F with it.
 
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I try to keep mine around 30pg/ml. Anytime it goes higher the sides kick in. Keeping my e2 in range has been the hardest thing to do. I can't tell you how many times I raised and lowered my Ai, went for blood work. I gave up trying to dial in my Ai dose. I now run 100mgs of test a wk and no Ai. I feel great no more shitty sides like crying when i watch a cartoon lol.It also keeps the sides down when I run it with Tren,deca ect.. The only advice I can give is dial in your Ai get your E2 in range and don't F with it.

What sides other than crying watching a movie (lol) would you get when estrogen was high?
 
Ok.....I want to hear your educated input and why fellas. Regardless of whether a man is doing 150mg TRT or 700, 1000, 1500+mg of test, we should all be acknowledging the fact that estrogen WREAKS HAVOC if left uncontrolled. Some guys think that estrogen elevation is not a big deal because they don't experience sides...but that is definitely not intelligent or healthy thinking. Also, eventually, as we all get older-estrogen starts to effect us in ways that it once may not have. It's a very delicate hormone, since allowing it to creep too high - or controlling it too much and driving it too low can both be a nightmare.

I don't want to call anyone out, but one member mentioned in a post last week that estrogen basically should be 1/10 of your dose if you control it correctly with an AI...as if 750mg being used would equate to an E2(estradiol) of 75. Long story short, he mentioned that E2 is more appropriately viewed as a RATIO rather than kept in an "optimal" RANGE. Supposedly, optimal E2 levels would give you moderate to severe symptoms of chronically low estrogen. I have personally gone back and forth on this as I have heard him mention it before but after consulting with some people I respect, I find it to be possibly far-fetched and without substance.

I believe optimal E2 levels are approx 21-37 (I believe Dante stated this somewhere but could not find it in a quick search.) I hope he chimes in here.

Other minds....what do you think and why?

I can understand a ratio. But a ratio based on dosage?
Wouldnt a ratio based on testosterone level and not dosage be prefered
 
I don't think your e2 is all that controls your emotional side. My e2 will be in range on nothing but 100mgs of cyp a week e2 is always 28 and I will still tear up over little things on tv. My wife just laughs.
 
I can understand a ratio. But a ratio based on dosage?
Wouldnt a ratio based on testosterone level and not dosage be prefered

I talked with the fella Knight9 is referring too over PM's and he stated to me to go by total testosterone not the dose.
 
also i know on my last blood work i was over 7600+ total test and my e2 was at 33 and i felt like shit. whether or not that was e2 related not exactly sure. i came off shortly after so did not play around with my AI.
 
also i know on my last blood work i was over 7600+ total test and my e2 was at 33 and i felt like shit. whether or not that was e2 related not exactly sure. i came off shortly after so did not play around with my AI.

What was your test dose and AI dose when you had those lab results?
 
i do not think there are ANY studies, long or short term that show that a certain ratio is healthy when on high dosages. not that i have seen. while it may be true, that is only some ones opinion at this point. most studies show E2 in the mid range of 'normal" is best.
 
Loss of libido not matter how much test running. Anxiety and low energy.

keep in mind low estradiol will cause same loss of libido as high estradiol. and just to repeat something i previously responded to...

when i discovered liquid anti-aromatase a lot of guys said liquids are fake or don't work as well - i used liquid exemestane and my blood labs showed estradiol was lower than 5. i had zero libido. i had taken a little too much and worked too well.

i've tried two different liquid research companies and both were g2g on anti-aromatase and prami. tada seemed underdosed but did encounter warm flush feeling and reddening in face.


This information not meant to diagnose or treat any health conditions or issues and is for entertainment purposes only.
 
My E2 was really high, so I took Letro, and nothing changed!! Thought the letro was bunk... then I took Arimidex, still nothing changed !!!!! And these were AIs sold by well known sponsors. So I went and got blood work done, and next thing you know, my E2 was REALLY low. I had the same side effects as I had with high E2.

The sides of low E2 were massive lethargy, foggy brain, feeling like shit, depressed, ED, low sex drive, and even BLOAT !!! I was bloated because I was constantly dehydrated I think, or whatever the reason was... Oh this is the weird fucking part, my nipples were itchy and puffy :0 !!!!

I cam off of Adex and Letro, after 2 or 3 weeks, I noticed the water going away and I started to feel better, nipples were no longer sore. That's when I said FUCK testosterone, No more than 100 or 120 a week (subQ x2 a week)

So watch out when you take AIs !!!!!!
 
My E2 was really high, so I took Letro, and nothing changed!! Thought the letro was bunk... then I took Arimidex, still nothing changed !!!!! And these were AIs sold by well known sponsors. So I went and got blood work done, and next thing you know, my E2 was REALLY low. I had the same side effects as I had with high E2.

The sides of low E2 were massive lethargy, foggy brain, feeling like shit, depressed, ED, low sex drive, and even BLOAT !!! I was bloated because I was constantly dehydrated I think, or whatever the reason was... Oh this is the weird fucking part, my nipples were itchy and puffy :0 !!!!

I cam off of Adex and Letro, after 2 or 3 weeks, I noticed the water going away and I started to feel better, nipples were no longer sore. That's when I said FUCK testosterone, No more than 100 or 120 a week (subQ x2 a week)

So watch out when you take AIs !!!!!!

Interesting, although I don't understand how this makes sense at all.

My nips are puffy on 100mg ED Tren atm. 1mg of adex and prami (pharm grade) not solving the problem. Just started Letro at 2.5mg today....going to go for a week and see if it does anything, if not, drop the tren and probably never use it again.
 
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Interesting, although I don't understand how this makes sense at all.

My nips are puffy on 100mg ED Tren atm. 1mg of adex and prami (pharm grade) not solving the problem. Just started Letro at 2.5mg today....going to go for a week and see if it does anything, if not, drop the tren and probably never use it again.

I was mind fucked when I found out my E2 was tanked !! I was so confused why I was bloated and had itchy nipples.

I strongly suggest you to get blood work done.
 
Excessive estrogen build up gives me bad acne I got to take aromasin daily an my skin is clear an libido is crazy stalking my woman around condo, 12.5 mg a day from one our sources here has me feeling great.
 

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