Optimal Estrogen Levels...(E2 primarily)

[Massive G]

My E2 was really high, so I took Letro, and nothing changed!! Thought the letro was bunk... then I took Arimidex, still nothing changed !!!!! And these were AIs sold by well known sponsors. So I went and got blood work done, and next thing you know, my E2 was REALLY low. I had the same side effects as I had with high E2.

The sides of low E2 were massive lethargy, foggy brain, feeling like shit, depressed, ED, low sex drive, and even BLOAT !!! I was bloated because I was constantly dehydrated I think, or whatever the reason was... Oh this is the weird fucking part, my nipples were itchy and puffy :0 !!!!

I cam off of Adex and Letro, after 2 or 3 weeks, I noticed the water going away and I started to feel better, nipples were no longer sore. That's when I said FUCK testosterone, No more than 100 or 120 a week (subQ x2 a week)

So watch out when you take AIs !!!!!!

^^^
This above.

I have always felt people over used AI's big time and think you need 1/10th of the dosage of what is recommended - especially if you have properly dosed product that you are using. SOME of the research liquids are just severely underdosed IMO anyway.

We used to get by back in the day before all these fancy new AI's on 2.5 - 5.0 mg of nolvadex a day or EOD.

When experimenting with the newer stuff at recommended doses - it destroyed my E2 levels to almost nothing - which is not good. WE need at least SOME estrogen for normal physiological function.

I can see taking AI's at a little higher dosed during contest prep but wouldn't want to walk around jacked on AI's during every cycle as more is not better and some of the AI's have terrible side effects just from the drug itself.

 

[Stewie]

i found this information on another site and am not certain if it's entirely correct:

"So what happens when Tren hits the fat cells, well it doesn’t use it in a natural way, it attaches to the fat cell and eats it so fast and breaks it down so fast your body can’t keep up with what is going on, and you start to have extra estrogen floating around.

In a natural way, you almost release No estrogen from the fat cell (which again can been seen all the time in fat people, they start to exercise and lose weight everything in their test goes down.. Including estrogen levels in guys and their test increase)

So tren is great against fat it doesn’t give a shit it see fat it’s like f___ing pac man yummy but it leaves estrogen behind which sucks but isn’t a bad thing either we got Ai’s and things.

If you can you should always take proviron on a tren cycle 50mg ED along with your AI. I personal take Aromasion 6.25mg EOD and .25mg of Adex e3d when im on a tren cycle.

That's gotta be the silliest thing I've read in awhile.

Degradation of estradiol by Tren's exertion on adipose tissue, therefore an increase in estradiol levels in blood circulation....?! Profoundly ignorant analogy. Piss poor actually.

If that was the case, everyone running ECA, DNP and Clen would have astronomically high E2 levels. All three act as beta2-3-AR agonists, acting on adipose tissue.

 

[Knight9]

So..........to sum it up:

Dante: 21-37 is optimal(from on of his health responses months ago)
Emeric: 25-50 is optimal(from another recent thread)
Alpha: Does not worry unless 50 or higher..(told me directly)
I have had patients with test level at 3000 and their E2 still at 40-60 with proper AI
Stewie: Hasn't given me a direct answer since so much varies but I think he agrees with the basic ranges here.


Looks like we should try to keep E2 between 20-50!

I DO NOT think that the very smart individual that posted an E2 of 75 is optimal for 750mg of test is correct. I have no idea where he pulled that info from.

 

[Damios]

But we are talking about the best E2 level for health reasons, right? I mean lipids profil, hearth etc. etc.?

 

[Knight9]

But we are talking about the best E2 level for health reasons, right? I mean lipids profil, hearth etc. etc.?

What else would we be talking about? No one ever talks about propelling estrogen to the perfect anabolic level.

..if there even is such a thing.

 

[Damios]

Yes, next things about which i thought was something like that people say; "too high E2 level make You fat", "too low E2 level inhibit gains", "more E2 = more gains", "the most imporant thing is T:E2 ratio, not only E2 level so if You have elevated Testosteron level You need to have elevated Estrogen level to keep good libido, good feeling" etc. etc.

 

[Knight9]

Yes, next things about which i thought was something like that people say; "too high E2 level make You fat", "too low E2 level inhibit gains", "more E2 = more gains", "the most imporant thing is T:E2 ratio, not only E2 level so if You have elevated Testosteron level You need to have elevated Estrogen level to keep good libido, good feeling" etc. etc.

The only person who claims ratios are important(not even sure he's saying important...but perhaps unavoidable) is Kaladryn and I would take the word of the 4 people I listed over him. He is usually on point with his info but I do not agree with him this time.

 

[buck1973]

This is from said thread......

75 ng/dl E2 on 750mg of test is PERFECT!! That is the EXACT number you are shooting for, about one tenth of test dose. 1g of test per week is normally 200 estradiol without an AI, and 100 with an AI. AIs are supposed to (according to all the research) lower estradiol by about 50%. As mentioned above, twice daily dosing will give you slightly less side effects due to more steady levels.

There is NO WAY to bring estradiol levels into the "normal" range on a lot of test, nor would you want to, as you would have extreme symptoms of low E if you could get your estradiol that low. E and T compete, the ratio of the two is important.



He will see very little difference between 12.5mg and 25mg.

 

[Knight9]

This is from said thread......

So if you want to run 1500,2000 or 3000mg test...your e2 is relegated to being 150, 200, and 300 respectively even when on very effective and powerful AI's?

Another thing he started was the idea that Aromasin has to be dosed twice daily due to half-life. Several physicians and very smart individuals have told me that is utter bullshit..aromasin doesn't even necessarily have to be dosed daily, but in some situations is better suited to be.

 

[buck1973]

So if you want to run 1500,2000 or 3000mg test...your e2 is relegated to being 150, 200, and 300 respectively even when on very effective and powerful AI's?

Another thing he started was the idea that Aromasin has to be dosed twice daily due to half-life. Several physicians and very smart individuals have told me that is utter bullshit..aromasin doesn't even necessarily have to be dosed daily, but in some situations is better suited to be.

I dont know nearly enuff about it.
But from what i remember there were some studys in men and AI's could only reduce e-2 levels about 50% no matter the dose.as these drugs are for female and seldom researched in males.

 

[Knight9]

I dont know nearly enuff about it.
But from what i remember there were some studys in men and AI's could only reduce e-2 levels about 50% no matter the dose.as these drugs are for female and seldom researched in males.

I'm pretty sure we could all fuck ourselves up with excessive AI use and prove that wrong.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

So..........to sum it up:

Dante: 21-37 is optimal(from on of his health responses months ago)
Emeric: 25-50 is optimal(from another recent thread)
Alpha: Does not worry unless 50 or higher..(told me directly)
I have had patients with test level at 3000 and their E2 still at 40-60 with proper AI
Stewie: Hasn't given me a direct answer since so much varies but I think he agrees with the basic ranges here.


Looks like we should try to keep E2 between 20-50!

I DO NOT think that the very smart individual that posted an E2 of 75 is optimal for 750mg of test is correct. I have no idea where he pulled that info from.

Got to remember Im not talking about guys running a gram or two of testosterone.

 

[Knight9]

Got to remember Im not talking about guys running a gram or two of testosterone.

While I do realize that...I was just making an example. However, seems to me someone running 300,500,600,750, 1000mg would likely be able to keep their E2 in check with AI's with a little bit of effort and testing/monitoring.

 

[Knight9]

Dr. Rand Mcclain just mentioned here (on this segment released tonight) that the optimal ("sweet spot"-as he called it) E2 levels are roughly 15-20!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3xfMDdHqQA&feature=youtu.be

 

[discohornet]

he said that e2 should be in that range but he didn't necessarily go into explanation about if that number would need to change if someone was using 1000mg of Test. The problem we're going to run into is that there will never be a study done on the optimal e2 level for someone who takes a gram of test a week.

 

[gulfcoast]

^ Correct

Or optimal E levels on 1 gram Test, 800 mg EQ, 600 mg Tren and 100 Drol ED.

 

[p-lethal]

all i know is when i was running a gram of test my e2 was 30 and my libido was low. i backed off my AI dose a little and my libido was good to go within a 2 week period. not sure where my # finally fell in.

 

[Knight9]

he said that e2 should be in that range but he didn't necessarily go into explanation about if that number would need to change if someone was using 1000mg of Test. The problem we're going to run into is that there will never be a study done on the optimal e2 level for someone who takes a gram of test a week.

I submitted this question (on up to 2500mg test) 3 episodes ago and the guy skipped over it. I submitted it again yesterday.
We'll see...

 

[Knight9]

Just throwing some more info into this...an increasingly popular coach named Matt Jansen was on PED Radio a few weeks ago and says he feels great when his E2 is between 25-45. That continues the same basic range most like on the low end and the top end is a little higher than many suggest but still within a decent range.

 

[Gravel]

he said that e2 should be in that range but he didn't necessarily go into explanation about if that number would need to change if someone was using 1000mg of Test. The problem we're going to run into is that there will never be a study done on the optimal e2 level for someone who takes a gram of test a week.

I agree its too unpredictable and more often than not many run into problems....that's why Tri-blends were created.