Oral and digestive system (histamine)Oral and digestive system (histamine)

[GiantMuscle]

Hi everyone,

(Sorry if my English isn't great, it's not my native language)

I'm opening a new topic on orals and the digestive system.

I have noticed that more and more people can't stand orals anymore. Quickly the digestive system is attacked and symptoms arrive like pain, bad digestion, fermentation, gas, diarrhea etc.

I myself have had the problem for years, I can't do a week of orals without having my stomach destroyed, no matter what the molecule.

I thought for a long time that it was the gallbladder and the obstruction of the bile that was responsible for a bad digestion but the markers on blood tests are good.

I came across this on the forum:

John Jewitts podcast J3 University with Dr Dean St Mark. I think it’s episode 17
(https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/j3-university/id1552563071)

(Thanks @D-NUTZ and @VaginaBoob89 )

"Oh holy shit... this is the best episode of any bodybuilding podcast I've ever seen. Thank you so much for the recommendation. For anyone wondering, a condensed answer is that there's nothing special about orals and appetite suppression; elevated androgens always cause excessive histamine production systematically, including in the stomach. Presumably since orals are going directly into the stomach, they exacerbate histamine production locally there to an even greater extent. Along with a short half life/quicker absorption than injectables, you get a big spike in blood androgen levels and thus lots of histamine in the digestive system. On top of that, bile ducts can get clogged and cause bile backflow into the liver, causing liver damage and insufficient bile for digesting fats which could make any appetite or GERD issues worse, but even if this doesn't happen, you can still get digestive issues/low appetite from orals by the histamine mechanism above.

Note that Chad Nichols was a fan of Periactin, an antihistamine with more activation of the histamine receptors in the gut. Antihistamine down there+independently increasing appetite could easily offset or cancel out suppression from orals if you can tolerate the other sides from periactin.

His recommendations were to supplement with DAO and copper, keep doses reasonable, and cruise (or come off) to allow systematic histamine levels to return to normal.

I've had bad nasal congestion for a long time and haven't cruised in a good 8.5 months, guess I know exactly what I need to do now!"

I wanted to know what you thought? About this and the problem in general?

I bought this morning Zyrtecset (Cetirizine dihydrochloride), I did not take Periactin because of the sedative effects, I opted for an anti histamine of H1 generation.

However I have tried many things with no results so I prefer to open the question here.


To give more details on my case, I always have what I need in protection for the liver:
-Glutathione injection
-NAC
-Tudca

The problem remains the same, 40mg of Anadrol can destroy my digestive system in a few days. Not only the appetite but the whole digestion of food

I would love to be able to use orals to break up some trays or other things, so if you have any ideas, leads, advice on histamine, I'm a taker!

Thank you so much!

PS: the title of the topic has doubled, if someone can edit it

 

[heavyhitter]

Hi everyone,

(Sorry if my English isn't great, it's not my native language)

I'm opening a new topic on orals and the digestive system.

I have noticed that more and more people can't stand orals anymore. Quickly the digestive system is attacked and symptoms arrive like pain, bad digestion, fermentation, gas, diarrhea etc.

I myself have had the problem for years, I can't do a week of orals without having my stomach destroyed, no matter what the molecule.

I thought for a long time that it was the gallbladder and the obstruction of the bile that was responsible for a bad digestion but the markers on blood tests are good.

I came across this on the forum:

John Jewitts podcast J3 University with Dr Dean St Mark. I think it’s episode 17
(https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/j3-university/id1552563071)

(Thanks @D-NUTZ and @VaginaBoob89 )

"Oh holy shit... this is the best episode of any bodybuilding podcast I've ever seen. Thank you so much for the recommendation. For anyone wondering, a condensed answer is that there's nothing special about orals and appetite suppression; elevated androgens always cause excessive histamine production systematically, including in the stomach. Presumably since orals are going directly into the stomach, they exacerbate histamine production locally there to an even greater extent. Along with a short half life/quicker absorption than injectables, you get a big spike in blood androgen levels and thus lots of histamine in the digestive system. On top of that, bile ducts can get clogged and cause bile backflow into the liver, causing liver damage and insufficient bile for digesting fats which could make any appetite or GERD issues worse, but even if this doesn't happen, you can still get digestive issues/low appetite from orals by the histamine mechanism above.

Note that Chad Nichols was a fan of Periactin, an antihistamine with more activation of the histamine receptors in the gut. Antihistamine down there+independently increasing appetite could easily offset or cancel out suppression from orals if you can tolerate the other sides from periactin.

His recommendations were to supplement with DAO and copper, keep doses reasonable, and cruise (or come off) to allow systematic histamine levels to return to normal.

I've had bad nasal congestion for a long time and haven't cruised in a good 8.5 months, guess I know exactly what I need to do now!"

I wanted to know what you thought? About this and the problem in general?

I bought this morning Zyrtecset (Cetirizine dihydrochloride), I did not take Periactin because of the sedative effects, I opted for an anti histamine of H1 generation.

However I have tried many things with no results so I prefer to open the question here.


To give more details on my case, I always have what I need in protection for the liver:
-Glutathione injection
-NAC
-Tudca

The problem remains the same, 40mg of Anadrol can destroy my digestive system in a few days. Not only the appetite but the whole digestion of food

I would love to be able to use orals to break up some trays or other things, so if you have any ideas, leads, advice on histamine, I'm a taker!

Thank you so much!

PS: the title of the topic has doubled, if someone can edit it

This was a good podcast, and because of it I tried a diamine oxidase supplement. It did help some, but is very expensive to take multiple times a day. I have gotten FAR more relief from using zinc l-carnosine once daily. I wasn’t using it for oral aas intolenrace though(which I do have. I haven’t been able to run orals for several years) but rather for ibs related digestive issues. Give it a try. Might work for you

 

[VaginaBoob89]

Hi everyone,

(Sorry if my English isn't great, it's not my native language)

I'm opening a new topic on orals and the digestive system.

I have noticed that more and more people can't stand orals anymore. Quickly the digestive system is attacked and symptoms arrive like pain, bad digestion, fermentation, gas, diarrhea etc.

I myself have had the problem for years, I can't do a week of orals without having my stomach destroyed, no matter what the molecule.

I thought for a long time that it was the gallbladder and the obstruction of the bile that was responsible for a bad digestion but the markers on blood tests are good.

I came across this on the forum:

John Jewitts podcast J3 University with Dr Dean St Mark. I think it’s episode 17
(https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/j3-university/id1552563071)

(Thanks @D-NUTZ and @VaginaBoob89 )

"Oh holy shit... this is the best episode of any bodybuilding podcast I've ever seen. Thank you so much for the recommendation. For anyone wondering, a condensed answer is that there's nothing special about orals and appetite suppression; elevated androgens always cause excessive histamine production systematically, including in the stomach. Presumably since orals are going directly into the stomach, they exacerbate histamine production locally there to an even greater extent. Along with a short half life/quicker absorption than injectables, you get a big spike in blood androgen levels and thus lots of histamine in the digestive system. On top of that, bile ducts can get clogged and cause bile backflow into the liver, causing liver damage and insufficient bile for digesting fats which could make any appetite or GERD issues worse, but even if this doesn't happen, you can still get digestive issues/low appetite from orals by the histamine mechanism above.

Note that Chad Nichols was a fan of Periactin, an antihistamine with more activation of the histamine receptors in the gut. Antihistamine down there+independently increasing appetite could easily offset or cancel out suppression from orals if you can tolerate the other sides from periactin.

His recommendations were to supplement with DAO and copper, keep doses reasonable, and cruise (or come off) to allow systematic histamine levels to return to normal.

I've had bad nasal congestion for a long time and haven't cruised in a good 8.5 months, guess I know exactly what I need to do now!"

I wanted to know what you thought? About this and the problem in general?

I bought this morning Zyrtecset (Cetirizine dihydrochloride), I did not take Periactin because of the sedative effects, I opted for an anti histamine of H1 generation.

However I have tried many things with no results so I prefer to open the question here.


To give more details on my case, I always have what I need in protection for the liver:
-Glutathione injection
-NAC
-Tudca

The problem remains the same, 40mg of Anadrol can destroy my digestive system in a few days. Not only the appetite but the whole digestion of food

I would love to be able to use orals to break up some trays or other things, so if you have any ideas, leads, advice on histamine, I'm a taker!

Thank you so much!

PS: the title of the topic has doubled, if someone can edit it

periactin worked if I had a very high dose, but it's unrealistic to tolerate this medicine for anyone with a real life who is not a full time bodybuilder. The other fixes like copper and DAO were like pez candy and barely made a dent. Periactin is effective, however.

I personally just decided to brew up injectable versions of orals. I'm a pin cushion now, but it did solve the problem. 0 appetite issues from inject dbol

 

[GiantMuscle]

Thanks for your answers, I feel like there isn't much that can really help with oral steroids.

 

[b-boy]

Yea orals just aren't worth it for me anymore, about a week in and then my stomach is fucked.

 

[heavyhitter]

Yea orals just aren't worth it for me anymore, about a week in and then my stomach is fucked.

Sames

 

[GiantMuscle]

I thought about the injectable version of the orals, but that adds one or two injections a day.

A few years ago I had no problem with the orals, perhaps a deterioration of the stomach and/or intestine from taking them.

It's a pity because some oral molecules have real advantages

 

[Gorilla_Waters]

I believe that oral AAS intolerance comes from the GI lining becoming inflamed or damaged. Or your body can’t process the induced toxicity from the toxic oral.

If your GI system is damaged then it’s much harder to process toxic orals.

Pharma probiotics are a proven way to reduce GI inflammation and improve GI lining damage.

But I really don’t have a clue what your problem is.

 

[kingpeon]

Yea orals just aren't worth it for me anymore, about a week in and then my stomach is fucked.

damn, I'd settle for an upset tummy over dealing with methandienone-induced blood-laced morning bowel movements! This 'til death do we part Diana love affair is officially over!