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Orals Toxicity seems overrated

BigNJ

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I've been looking up many studies using oral AAS in humans and most of the findings seem positive pertaining liver toxicity. Here's a snippet where Halotestin was used in Hemodialysis patients a dose of 30mg/day for men:

"
Fluoxymesterone was administered to 14 severely anemic patients with chronic renal failure stabilized with maintenance hemodialysis. Clinically, significant improvement in erythropoiesis was seen within 3 to 6 months of androgen therapy in 13 of the 14 patients, as reflected by a reduction in transfusion requirements and an increase in hematocrit value. The increase in effective erythropoiesis was documented by the erythroid iron turnover and was accompanied usually by either an increase in measurable serum levels of erythropoietin or a reduction in the marrow transit time, suggesting that the androgen acted primarily by stimulating erythropoietin production. This response did not depend on the presence of residual renal tissue. In the doses given (10 mg/day for women; 30 mg/day for men), fluoxymesterone therapy was unassociated with significant toxicity. "

There are many more, but you get the point.
 

BigNJ

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Another one where halo was used in children:

Since fluoxymesterone is a 17-alphaalkylated steroid, the question of potential hepatic toxicity must be considered. No studies of liver function were made in the children receiving 5 to 15 mg. doses of fluoxymesterone. Twenty mg. a day given to 8 adults caused an average rise in sulfobromophthalein (ESP) retention of 5.8 ± 4.6 per cent (mean ± standard deviation). Four of the 8 were considered to have abnormal sulfobromophthalein retention. The steroid did not affect serum bilirubin, either direct or indirect, thymol turbidity, zinc turbidity, cephalin flocculation, serum proteins, alkaline phosphatase, or serum transcarbarnylase concentrations.12 Jaundice has not been reported from fluoxymesterone treatment, but has occurred rarely during administration of methyltestosterone and norethandrolone, and oftener from 17-alpha-methyl-19-nortestosterone.
 

Knight9

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It's not really the liver toxicity that you have to worry about as long as you are reasonable and healthy. The issue that far outweighs any potential 'toxicity' is the effects orals have on lipids which can lead to arterial plaques. LDL repairs inflammation and HDL comes to clean up the mess from what I understand and remember. When your lipids are out of whack, there's remnants that don't get cleaned up as well that inflame the walls where plaque can build.
 

BigNJ

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It's not really the liver toxicity that you have to worry about as long as you are reasonable and healthy. The issue that far outweighs any potential 'toxicity' is the effects orals have on lipids which can lead to arterial plaques. LDL repairs inflammation and HDL comes to clean up the mess from what I understand and remember. When your lipids are out of whack, there's remnants that don't get cleaned up as well that inflame the walls where plaque can build.
Well true if lipids are the concern. 10mg to 20mg 9f Lipitor 3 times weekly will take care of that.
 

Swifto

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Well true if lipids are the concern. 10mg to 20mg 9f Lipitor 3 times weekly will take care of that.

Yeah, thats right, throw more drugs at the situation.

Why dont you take antibiotics year round in case you get a bacterial infection?
 

juggy38

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The liver can take a fucking beating. It will be the heart and kidney damage that will get you.

My veteran population, I’ve seen unheard of alcohol consumption+drug use+Hep C at times. Liver values fucked beyond believe.

4 weeks of hep-c treatment, and sobriety….liver values fine, no scarring of liver. Sometimes som NAFLD, but a good diet and living right for a year would clear that up.

I mean take care of your liver, but the kidneys and heart are your main concern
 

Reno911

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On my last blast ending with 50mg Winny and 50mg Var included, AST was 109, ALT 120, GGT was 51. Not super horrible on those compounds and dosages but not great either. I know some guys on those compounds and dosages would be high 100's or low 200's.

I really wouldn't want my numbers were they were for more than maybe 4-5 weeks a year.
 

b_cornelius

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The liver is at the top for it's ability to regenerate. This stands contrary to the strict scientific claims from not too long ago (Other claims in this arena are claims like you have the same number of adipocytes through your entire adult life, or you never aquire new adipocytes. Some people continue to claim this because the old claims are still available to the public as "scientific research")

So maybe the old treatment of orals was unwaranted, or maybe everything is just getting better. A person has so many tools for the condition of one's liver. A healthy person now has every advantage for maintenance of said health while under treatment with hepatoxic drugs.
 

qbkilla

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Yeah, thats right, throw more drugs at the situation.

Why dont you take antibiotics year round in case you get a bacterial infection?

He's not wrong. I agree with the op oral toxicity is overrated, but in my opinion, we live in an overmedcated society. Everyone wants to solve a problem with a prescription, which leads to side effects, and then another prescription and so on
 

Bandy0974

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I don't take any cholesterol meds like Lipitor but all orals absolutely trash my hdl. My biggest concerns health wise are lipid levels and blood pressure which is a pretty good indicator of heart health usually. I'm older and am probably more concerned about longevity I guess.
 

thethinker48

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The liver is a pretty resilient organ

But the regeneration thing if properly understood is akin to someone getting major burns on their skin, and developing scars as a result

It's not the same thing as your original skin; functionality wise too in the liver's case

So yes, Orals are pretty well tolerated considering the nation of Ireland redlines it on weekends and returns to work on Monday, but I wouldn't be completely cowboy about it either. Especially when guys are using higher aromatizing drugs with little to no AI; putting them at risk for growths on an organ vital for anything metabolism related
 

FrancisK

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I think it comes down to genetics, some guys sniff oral medication and have problems but myself personally I love my orals and use them over anything….never had an issue with liver values.

My cousin is dying to get on accutane but his doc won’t do it because his values are so bad, he also comes from a long line of alcoholics and his father died during a liver transplant so yea….genetics.
 

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