Organic: a marketing scam?

[MR. BMJ]

I am environmental toxicologist and have never heard of the AAEM. I have been published multiple times and know most of the big players in industry

What are your thoughts on Kevin Folta?

I'm not a lefty greeny like him, but I like a lot if not most of the info he puts out.

 

[AlaskaDoug]

What are your thoughts on Kevin Folta?

I'm not a lefty greeny like him, but I like a lot if not most of the info he puts out.

He is a solid scientist although more genetic engineering oriented than I am. Even Neil DeGrassi Tyson says the anti GMO people are looney

 

[tenny]

 

[10c]

Organic, but product of Mexico. Yeah right.

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[sodzl]

What fruits and vegetables looked like before years of being "genetically modified"

 

[Lou]

Organic = scam.


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[Deleted member 121863]

No one knows long term effects with GMOs. I rather eat organic when I can just due to the taste alone, but that is just me.

People that understand the topic first hand know there are no long term effects to eating GMO. People who are in limbo usually get there info from internet blogs. For the link you posted nobody should we give that opinion piece the label "if it's on the internet it's gotta be true"? The info I'm talking about is in high level genetics text books!

Organic will not make any food taste different. Rather GMO can change the taste because it is a different genetic lineage which makes the plant grow faster and it is a different plant. Shoot I ate a Russian girl and a South American, they tasted very different but I couldn't tell if either were organic [emoji2]


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[mementomori515]

AlaskaDoug, I appreciate your articulated refutations, but I still strongly believe organically grown produce is better for farmworkers, who I will always try to support.

Yes, many of the synthetic pesticides are more innocuous than some of the organic ones, and the amounts consumers are exposed to his harmless. But the effects of acute exposure are horrendous and we have a situation, particularly in the southern states whereby farmworkers are in contact with these chemicals all day. The neurological toxicity, birth defects, cancer, etc... is all well documented.

The majority of these people are illegal immigrants being taken advantage of by their employers. You can try and pin it back to politics or what have you, but at the end of the day if you buy non-organic fruits you are largely supporting that. I'm pretty sure workers on organic farms are not becoming sterile or having miscarriages and misdeveloped babies from overexposure to organic pesticides.

 

[alvinstrong]

I don't think organic is more nutricious than what we are eating now. We eat non-organic for years. We still can be very well.

 

[AlaskaDoug]

AlaskaDoug, I appreciate your articulated refutations, but I still strongly believe organically grown produce is better for farmworkers, who I will always try to support.

Yes, many of the synthetic pesticides are more innocuous than some of the organic ones, and the amounts consumers are exposed to his harmless. But the effects of acute exposure are horrendous and we have a situation, particularly in the southern states whereby farmworkers are in contact with these chemicals all day. The neurological toxicity, birth defects, cancer, etc... is all well documented.

The majority of these people are illegal immigrants being taken advantage of by their employers. You can try and pin it back to politics or what have you, but at the end of the day if you buy non-organic fruits you are largely supporting that. I'm pretty sure workers on organic farms are not becoming sterile or having miscarriages and misdeveloped babies from overexposure to organic pesticides.

With all due respect, please quit tossing anecdotes out there and purporting it as science. What acute exposures? Acute exposures to organophosphate required atropine. Pyrethrins are not teratogenic, so where are these birth defects you speak of? Studies please because I can post Oak Ridge info that says what you just put out there is bunk.

 

[mementomori515]

With all due respect, please quit tossing anecdotes out there and purporting it as science. What acute exposures? Acute exposures to organophosphate required atropine. Pyrethrins are not teratogenic, so where are these birth defects you speak of? Studies please because I can post Oak Ridge info that says what you just put out there is bunk.

you think all industrial farms are just using pyrethrins? Try 2-4D

https://www.farmworkerjustice.org/content/pesticide-safety

 

[AlaskaDoug]

you think all industrial farms are just using pyrethrins? Try 2-4D

https://www.farmworkerjustice.org/content/pesticide-safety

LOL. 2, 4-D is a broadleaf herbicide. Explain to me how that works? How do they spray your produce with a broad spectrum herbicide but you still get to eat it?

Don't tell me corn or wheat either because they are sprayed just past the cotlyleden stage and the heads NEVER see it.

 

[mementomori515]

LOL. 2, 4-D is a broadleaf herbicide. Explain to me how that works? How do they spray your produce with a broad spectrum herbicide but you still get to eat it?

Don't tell me corn or wheat either because they are sprayed just past the cotlyleden stage and the heads NEVER see it.

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency estimates that 10,000-20,000 farmworkers are poisoned on the job due to pesticide exposure. Several states, e.g., California and Washington State, have state incident reporting systems. In California, in 2009, there were a total of 916 reported cases which were found to be possibly, probably or definitely related to pesticides. Of those 916 cases, 252 (28%) involved agricultural workers. A recent study of acute pesticide poisonings between 1998 and 2005 among agricultural workers in the United States found that an average of 57.6 out of every 100,000 agricultural workers experience acute pesticide poisoning, illness or injury each year. This number excludes the many workers who suffer chronic health problems such as cancer, infertility, and neurological disorders, including Parkinson’s disease, as a result of these toxic exposures.

 

[AlaskaDoug]

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency estimates that 10,000-20,000 farmworkers are poisoned on the job due to pesticide exposure. Several states, e.g., California and Washington State, have state incident reporting systems. In California, in 2009, there were a total of 916 reported cases which were found to be possibly, probably or definitely related to pesticides. Of those 916 cases, 252 (28%) involved agricultural workers. A recent study of acute pesticide poisonings between 1998 and 2005 among agricultural workers in the United States found that an average of 57.6 out of every 100,000 agricultural workers experience acute pesticide poisoning, illness or injury each year. This number excludes the many workers who suffer chronic health problems such as cancer, infertility, and neurological disorders, including Parkinson’s disease, as a result of these toxic exposures.

1. This is an estimated value, not even an extrapolated one.
2. This does nothing to substantiate your 2, 4-D statement
3. What constitutes a pesticide injury is not defined.
4. Even if all of this is true, it still does nothing to support the argument that Organic foods are more nutritious and less harmful to the environment

 

[Swifto]

deleted....

 

[Stewie]

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency estimates that 10,000-20,000 farmworkers are poisoned on the job due to pesticide exposure. Several states, e.g., California and Washington State, have state incident reporting systems. In California, in 2009, there were a total of 916 reported cases which were found to be possibly, probably or definitely related to pesticides. Of those 916 cases, 252 (28%) involved agricultural workers. A recent study of acute pesticide poisonings between 1998 and 2005 among agricultural workers in the United States found that an average of 57.6 out of every 100,000 agricultural workers experience acute pesticide poisoning, illness or injury each year. This number excludes the many workers who suffer chronic health problems such as cancer, infertility, and neurological disorders, including Parkinson’s disease, as a result of these toxic exposures.

This article is describing exposure to workers involved with contact with pesticides either by means of inhalation, dermal, ect through handling of pesticides, herbicides, fungicides, ect.

It's not discussing the residual of pesticides on food products.

 

[rcorchid]

I careless about taste, what I'm concerned about is if it's worth spending 1.2-1.5 extra to eat organic because it's muchhhh healthier??

The answer is no, just my opinion.

 

[mementomori515]

This article is describing exposure to workers involved with contact with pesticides either by means of inhalation, dermal, ect through handling of pesticides, herbicides, fungicides, ect.

It's not discussing the residual of pesticides on food products.

I never claimed it was. I've even conceded that consumer levels of exposure to these pesticides are probably harmless. But by purchasing these products you are supporting the exploitation of farm workers.

I don't understand why AlaskaDoug is trying to minimize this. What argument can you possibly have that necessitates the suffering these people, their families, and unborn children endure?

 

[Stewie]

I never claimed it was. I've even conceded that consumer levels of exposure to these pesticides are probably harmless. But by purchasing these products you are supporting the exploitation of farm workers.

I don't understand why AlaskaDoug is trying to minimize this. What argument can you possibly have that necessitates the suffering these people, their families, and unborn children endure?

I was uncertain of your premises at first glance.

Yeah, sure there can be a number of pathophysiological effects from acute or chronic pesticide exposure. Obviously the LD50 of "said" pesticide leading too toxicosis is relevant.

Nothing wrong with bathing in DDT every-now and again. Helps strengthen the ole telomeres

 

[AlaskaDoug]

I was uncertain of your premises at first glance.


Nothing wrong with bathing in DDT every-now and again. Helps strengthen the ole telomeres

If you live in a part of the world where malaria kills people, DDT is a gift from God.
As Immanuel Kant noted, the truth often depends on your reference point.