OT: Shane Carwin vs. Brock Lesnar at UFC 106

[Johnny Thrust]

The interesting point Im getting out of everyones posts here is that Lesnars attempt to make himself the new "Villian" of MMA is obviously working pretty well. People are hating on him like a Monday morning hangover. That is exactly what he wants. He is bringing a new audience to MMA fights. The die-hard WWE/WWF/WCW fans are starting to show interest in his fights now and that equates to tons of pay per view sales. Tons of merchandise sales and sponsorship money. He will bring a ton of cash flow to the sport which cant be bad for all of us that enjoy watching. Lets never forget that Lesnar is a legit Wrestler. He ended his "real" wrestling in college with an impressive record of 106–5 overall in four years. That is nothing to sneeze at. I would love to see Lesnar VS. Kimbo. LOL.

 

[Doctor Jekyll]

I dont even know where to start!!

you can start with Seth Petruzelli knocking out Kimbo. please do not tell me you actually believe that happened without the fight being predetermined?
kimbo betted on seth and took the money because he knew he was going to loose anyway. even his reaction after the fight shows that.
if you are so naive to think that money wont corrupt this sport like it has EVERY single other sport then hey your living in a fairy land.
nothing on this earth is immune to being corrupted by large amounts of money.
if dana white poors all his money into lesnar which he has already done then you better bet he will make it back before lesnar gets toppled wich in turn lowers his value. fact is the more lesnar wins the more asses he puts in seats and the more idiots that pay $50+ to watch the ppv events.

 

[thethe]

you can start with Seth Petruzelli knocking out Kimbo. please do not tell me you actually believe that happened without the fight being predetermined?
kimbo betted on seth and took the money because he knew he was going to loose anyway. even his reaction after the fight shows that.
if you are so naive to think that money wont corrupt this sport like it has EVERY single other sport then hey your living in a fairy land.
nothing on this earth is immune to being corrupted by large amounts of money.
if dana white poors all his money into lesnar which he has already done then you better bet he will make it back before lesnar gets toppled wich in turn lowers his value. fact is the more lesnar wins the more asses he puts in seats and the more idiots that pay $50+ to watch the ppv events.[/QUOTE

Ok so now you think Kimbo threw that fight for a one time pay day? Hmmm and now he is fighting for almost nothing (fyi he got 500k for the Petruzelli fight) TUF 10?? Not sure what you mean by the fight being predetermined and Kimbo knowing he was going to lose? So he is in TUF getting 5k a fight now cause he didnt think he could be Seth, yet he is fighting some very good true HWT for a chance to fight in the UFC???Do you mean he didnt believe in himself or he was suppose to take a dive? FYI Kimbo got offer big money to go to Japan lots more then he would make here.
Come on you really dont believe this do you??
Oh and do you know how Lesnar make most of his money in the UFC? His contract is very heavy on the backend for PPV numbers which he gets after the fight so Dana make his money based on the number for that fight so little upfront or risk (well 250k is upfront)

So I'm guessing we did land on the Moon either?
Dont mean to be a dick but the fighters in MMA in thes big shows are not taking dives. They would rather not be paid then lose period.

 

[pumpt73]

I think Lesnar was a Div1 Champ and Carwin was a Div2 Champ.

Division really doesn't mean anything because you can never know who's truly better due to the fact they've never wrestled each other. Wrestling is a weird sport. Just because a guy didn't head on to a Div. 1 school, doesn't mean his wrestling was any less. Colleges just don't look at your athletics, they look at the overall package. This is why Michigan State gave me an offer. It wasn't just my wrestling career. I had the grades, other sports, and volunteer work. Carwin may not have had the grades.

Also, wrestling is no different than any other sport. If the school that Carwin went to isn't known to be a wrestling powerhouse, he may not have gotten a look from a Div 1 school. Or in the end, Carwin could have decided the Div 2 school was a better fit for him. Not saying he couldn't cut in the higher levels. Here in Michigan, we have a small NAIA school called Olivet College. During my high school years, myself, and my teammates would go an watch college matches. We lived pretty close to University of Michigan and Eastern Michigan University. We went to the Eastern Michigan Open and Olivet got an invite. Let's just say they didn't do too shabby. 5th out of 29 schools. Mostly Division 1.

Where Im from wrestling is the king sport. My county alone has crowned 21 team state champions since the team tournament has started. Most notably Temperance Bedford and Dundee High School. Bedford has won 11 titles, while Dundee has 6. I can't even count how many individual champions and placers have come from our county. Bedford was so good at one stretch, that they won 25 consecutive team District championships. Wrestling is no joke out here.

 

[Doctor Jekyll]

you can start with Seth Petruzelli knocking out Kimbo. please do not tell me you actually believe that happened without the fight being predetermined?
kimbo betted on seth and took the money because he knew he was going to loose anyway. even his reaction after the fight shows that.
if you are so naive to think that money wont corrupt this sport like it has EVERY single other sport then hey your living in a fairy land.
nothing on this earth is immune to being corrupted by large amounts of money.
if dana white poors all his money into lesnar which he has already done then you better bet he will make it back before lesnar gets toppled wich in turn lowers his value. fact is the more lesnar wins the more asses he puts in seats and the more idiots that pay $50+ to watch the ppv events.[/QUOTE

Ok so now you think Kimbo threw that fight for a one time pay day? Hmmm and now he is fighting for almost nothing (fyi he got 500k for the Petruzelli fight) TUF 10?? Not sure what you mean by the fight being predetermined and Kimbo knowing he was going to lose? So he is in TUF getting 5k a fight now cause he didnt think he could be Seth, yet he is fighting some very good true HWT for a chance to fight in the UFC???Do you mean he didnt believe in himself or he was suppose to take a dive? FYI Kimbo got offer big money to go to Japan lots more then he would make here.
Come on you really dont believe this do you??
Oh and do you know how Lesnar make most of his money in the UFC? His contract is very heavy on the backend for PPV numbers which he gets after the fight so Dana make his money based on the number for that fight so little upfront or risk (well 250k is upfront)

So I'm guessing we did land on the Moon either?
Dont mean to be a dick but the fighters in MMA in thes big shows are not taking dives. They would rather not be paid then lose period.

guy,
i am not going to bicker with you here. i have no idea what this has to do with the fucking moon landing??? If you feel you need to throw other things my way in order to make what ever point you believe then feel free. Its an open forum do as you must.
personally i do not think there is a chance in hell Seth could beat kimbo. i do think that fight was rigged. if you paid attention to kimbo after the fight he acted just like anyone would act if they knew they just made a shit load of money and knew it was going to happen that way.
i could care less what kimbo made in his contract i am talking vegas man. if kimbo knew he was suppose to throw the fight then what half brain wouldnt go bet all his winnings against him self and double them or even triple them.
he was happy after the fight... ready to get pussy and party, not like someone who knew he was going to win but just lost to a half ass with some girly punches that he has never been effected by up until this night.
so, think what you want. i think what i want. i have seen enough to know what it looks like to see someone genuinely beaten and heart broken from the loss. kimbo was neither.
again i will add... if for one moment that you think this sport is immune to being corrupted by money then you are the one who landed on the moon.. and i think you left your brain there when you left.
its common since my fellow mma fan.
this is a world ran exclusively by money. mma is no different.
lesnar is the perfect example. he is a money generating machine and as long as that continues to happen then he will continue to be on top of this sport. once someone else comes along that can generate more money into the owners pockets then lesnar will be history like all others who get fucked by the money train.
one example = tito ortiz
another
perfect example = mike tyson.

 

[Doctor Jekyll]

Division really doesn't mean anything because you can never know who's truly better due to the fact they've never wrestled each other. Wrestling is a weird sport. Just because a guy didn't head on to a Div. 1 school, doesn't mean his wrestling was any less. Colleges just don't look at your athletics, they look at the overall package. This is why Michigan State gave me an offer. It wasn't just my wrestling career. I had the grades, other sports, and volunteer work. Carwin may not have had the grades.

Also, wrestling is no different than any other sport. If the school that Carwin went to isn't known to be a wrestling powerhouse, he may not have gotten a look from a Div 1 school. Or in the end, Carwin could have decided the Div 2 school was a better fit for him. Not saying he couldn't cut in the higher levels. Here in Michigan, we have a small NAIA school called Olivet College. During my high school years, myself, and my teammates would go an watch college matches. We lived pretty close to University of Michigan and Eastern Michigan University. We went to the Eastern Michigan Open and Olivet got an invite. Let's just say they didn't do too shabby. 5th out of 29 schools. Mostly Division 1.

Where Im from wrestling is the king sport. My county alone has crowned 21 team state champions since the team tournament has started. Most notably Temperance Bedford and Dundee High School. Bedford has won 11 titles, while Dundee has 6. I can't even count how many individual champions and placers have come from our county. Bedford was so good at one stretch, that they won 25 consecutive team District championships. Wrestling is no joke out here.

Friend,
none of what you just typed really matters. what matters is who comes in this night ready to do battle. what matters is who comes in this night in shape, mentally and physically.
what matters is who white will make the most money from by winning the fight. these are both very big men. both are very good at what they do. both are skilled beyond most men and both are there to win.
this is not a mir vs lesnar fight, or any other fights lesnar has fought. this is a fight of equal skill and size. honestly i do not think there is another two fighters in the ufc or mma that match up this perfect.
if the fight is won by experience and skill then carwin will win no doubt. if the fight is won by money and future money earnings then lesnar will win.
its very simple. no need to bicker about stats and past accomplishments. it means nothing on this night. either it will be man vs man of equal value or it will be a fight determined by who will bring the most money for the future pay per views.
so going back and throwing up the fact that carwin is 2lbs lighter then lesnar or carwin is 1 inch shorter then lesnar... or even saying one guy won more in college then the other makes not one bit of difference.
i have seen guys 8 inches shorter then the other guy beat the hell out of the taller guy and i have seen guys who weigh 90lbs less then there opponent beat the hell out of the heavier guy. these things do not matter one bit. its either, who has more heart or who is going to win because money has corrupted this sport like it does all others.

 

[dragonfire101]

Friend,
none of what you just typed really matters. what matters is who comes in this night ready to do battle. what matters is who comes in this night in shape, mentally and physically.
what matters is who white will make the most money from by winning the fight. these are both very big men. both are very good at what they do. both are skilled beyond most men and both are there to win.
this is not a mir vs lesnar fight, or any other fights lesnar has fought. this is a fight of equal skill and size. honestly i do not think there is another two fighters in the ufc or mma that match up this perfect.
if the fight is won by experience and skill then carwin will win no doubt. if the fight is won by money and future money earnings then lesnar will win.
its very simple. no need to bicker about stats and past accomplishments. it means nothing on this night. either it will be man vs man of equal value or it will be a fight determined by who will bring the most money for the future pay per views.
so going back and throwing up the fact that carwin is 2lbs lighter then lesnar or carwin is 1 inch shorter then lesnar... or even saying one guy won more in college then the other makes not one bit of difference.
i have seen guys 8 inches shorter then the other guy beat the hell out of the taller guy and i have seen guys who weigh 90lbs less then there opponent beat the hell out of the heavier guy. these things do not matter one bit. its either, who has more heart or who is going to win because money has corrupted this sport like it does all others.

I don't know if Brock is the type to throw a fight for anyone, regardless of money


If I was Kimbo I would've bet on myself too knowing his skill level is low not because it was predetermined , but destined to loose because he can't fight in a organized match up. Now if he makes it past two fights on the show that is predetermined.

 

[LATS]

sorry.. i hate lesner.. i think he is a no talent hack but, gets by on great physical attributes.. just too strong and big.. i wish he would get his ass handed to him by carwin.. but i just dont see it.. last time i saw him fight he did win but, it was sloopy and in my opinion he got lucky.. he was hit bad for awhile.. i hope he can do it.. but i will put my money on brock as much as i hate too..

 

[meat250]

i cannot believe you think carwin has a chance, look at his competition, he basically fought bar scrubs. he looks slow and sluggish, brock will eat him and spit him out


Meat

 

[pumpt73]

Friend,
none of what you just typed really matters. what matters is who comes in this night ready to do battle. what matters is who comes in this night in shape, mentally and physically.
what matters is who white will make the most money from by winning the fight. these are both very big men. both are very good at what they do. both are skilled beyond most men and both are there to win.
this is not a mir vs lesnar fight, or any other fights lesnar has fought. this is a fight of equal skill and size. honestly i do not think there is another two fighters in the ufc or mma that match up this perfect.
if the fight is won by experience and skill then carwin will win no doubt. if the fight is won by money and future money earnings then lesnar will win.
its very simple. no need to bicker about stats and past accomplishments. it means nothing on this night. either it will be man vs man of equal value or it will be a fight determined by who will bring the most money for the future pay per views.
so going back and throwing up the fact that carwin is 2lbs lighter then lesnar or carwin is 1 inch shorter then lesnar... or even saying one guy won more in college then the other makes not one bit of difference.
i have seen guys 8 inches shorter then the other guy beat the hell out of the taller guy and i have seen guys who weigh 90lbs less then there opponent beat the hell out of the heavier guy. these things do not matter one bit. its either, who has more heart or who is going to win because money has corrupted this sport like it does all others.

Oh I know Jekyll. I think I may have misunderstood raJJin when he brought up the difference in what division the 2 had wrestled in in college. I was only pointing out that it really didn't matter what division you wrestled in. I've seen a lot of people get on the thing about how Lesnar was a Division 1 National Champ. It's just one of those things that's a moot point.

 

[Rob Roy]

Friend,
none of what you just typed really matters. what matters is who comes in this night ready to do battle. what matters is who comes in this night in shape, mentally and physically.
what matters is who white will make the most money from by winning the fight. these are both very big men. both are very good at what they do. both are skilled beyond most men and both are there to win.
this is not a mir vs lesnar fight, or any other fights lesnar has fought. this is a fight of equal skill and size. honestly i do not think there is another two fighters in the ufc or mma that match up this perfect.
if the fight is won by experience and skill then carwin will win no doubt. if the fight is won by money and future money earnings then lesnar will win.
its very simple. no need to bicker about stats and past accomplishments. it means nothing on this night. either it will be man vs man of equal value or it will be a fight determined by who will bring the most money for the future pay per views.
so going back and throwing up the fact that carwin is 2lbs lighter then lesnar or carwin is 1 inch shorter then lesnar... or even saying one guy won more in college then the other makes not one bit of difference.
i have seen guys 8 inches shorter then the other guy beat the hell out of the taller guy and i have seen guys who weigh 90lbs less then there opponent beat the hell out of the heavier guy. these things do not matter one bit. its either, who has more heart or who is going to win because money has corrupted this sport like it does all others.

Example;
GSP= zero competitive wrestling experience
GSP= invite to join Canadian Olympic freestyle team
GSP= Currently top ranked wrestling skill level in mma

I guess my point is that bickering over what Brock or Shane accomplished 10 yrs ago is really irrelevant today in the fastest growing/evolving sport in the world. Don't get me wrong, I'm not discrediting wrestling skill of either fighter, I just feel that bickering over their accomplishments of D1 vs. D2 is useless this day and age of the fighter.

 

[Golgo13]

You guys are calling this fight like its going to be a piece of cake for one guy or the other.

I disagree with all of you. These guys are an even match.

Carwin has been around longer, but he has fought a bunch of nobodies. Dudes I can't even find fight records on.

 

[Jappy's Boy]

Lesnar cant punch ? Dude............. try convincing Couture that Lesnar cant punch. Maybe you didnt see Lesnar take the title with a straight right that put Randy flat on his butt and followed up with hammer fists til the fight was called. Lesnar CAN punch and he hits hard.

i say that brock cant punch, because he has never knocked anyone out. there's a difference between "finishing" with a barage of punches, and "knocking out" with punches. yes, he did drop couture and mir, but he didn't knock them out. couture is much smaller. if real puncher hits a guy 30 lbs lighter the way brock hit randy (solid, straight, hips and shoulders in it), he would knock his man COLD. the way carwin did gazonga. i mean think about it, a 6'3 260lb lean athelete like brock, should be able knock people out. i'm just saying that punching power isn't his thing.

 

[DWC]

Should be an interesting matchup , Carwin has some serious power in his hands and I think he might be able to prevent most of Brocks takedowns and keep the fight standing but its really hard to know. Brock has manhandled everyone physically and as much as I hope I am wrong I won't be too surprised if he does it again