Outline of my first geared bulk

[JM1219]

So, IF I decided to do a geared bulk, this is what it would look like.

Just looking for some refining, especially in the diet area. I've (obviously) been natural prior to this, and the most current research suggests that, at least for natural bodybuilders, protein requirements have been grossly overstated. One interesting bit I found supporting this was a natural pro bodybuilder who was also a scientist dieted on 75g protein per day. Training didn't change, carb intake was high, fat intake was moderate, but no more than 75g protein per day. After three months he had the exact same LBM as when he started. Anyway, enough of my ranting, point is, I'm not sure how much protein I should take in. I very seriously doubt that 400+g per day is needed by anyone, unless they're one of the handful 5'10 285 8% body fat monsters.

About myself:
5'8, about 175lbs of LBM, sitting at around 200lbs right now, but I'm pretty bloated at the moment. I just came off a competition diet where I got down to about 5-6% body fat. I've let myself get up to about 9-10% body fat and am now back on a strict diet.

The cycle:
Weeks 1-8
Test prop @ 100mg EOD
T3 @ 25mcg
Turinabol @ 50mg ED
Aromasin @ 12.5mg ED
HCG @ 200iu twice per week
CJC (No DAC) @ 100mcg/day split into two doses; one in the morning, one before sleep.
GHRP-2 @ 200mcg/day, same dosing scheme as the CJC.

Weeks 9-12:
Toremifene @ 100/75/50/25
-A low dose AI, haven't decided which. Most likely Aromasin or Novedex XT
-Something that will help lower cortisol, again, haven't decided. Most likely Reduce XT.
Bromocriptine @ 2.5mg/day
CJC (No DAC) @ 100mcg/day split into two doses; one in the morning, one before sleep.
GHRP-2 @ 200mcg/day, same dosing scheme as the CJC.


Training:
DC style training. This will be my first HIT styled routine. I'm probably going to modify the routine to:
Monday: Workout A- Essentially the entire upper body, excluding arms.
Tuesday: Workout B- The whole lower body, and arms.
Wednesday: Off/cardio
Thursday: Workout A
Friday: Workout B


Diet:
This is where I'm needing the most help, but this is what I've got so far:
Six meals per day consisting of:

Protein: 42g
Carbs: 50g
Fat: 7-12g

Putting me at this for the totals:
~2600-2800 cals
250g Protein
300g Carbs
42-60g Fat

 

[BigJB]

So, IF I decided to do a geared bulk, this is what it would look like.

Just looking for some refining, especially in the diet area. I've (obviously) been natural prior to this, and the most current research suggests that, at least for natural bodybuilders, protein requirements have been grossly overstated. One interesting bit I found supporting this was a natural pro bodybuilder who was also a scientist dieted on 75g protein per day. Training didn't change, carb intake was high, fat intake was moderate, but no more than 75g protein per day. After three months he had the exact same LBM as when he started. Anyway, enough of my ranting, point is, I'm not sure how much protein I should take in. I very seriously doubt that 400+g per day is needed by anyone, unless they're one of the handful 5'10 285 8% body fat monsters.

About myself:
5'8, about 175lbs of LBM, sitting at around 200lbs right now, but I'm pretty bloated at the moment. I just came off a competition diet where I got down to about 5-6% body fat. I've let myself get up to about 9-10% body fat and am now back on a strict diet.

The cycle:
Weeks 1-8
Test prop @ 100mg EOD
T3 @ 25mcg
Turinabol @ 50mg ED
Aromasin @ 12.5mg ED
HCG @ 200iu twice per week
CJC (No DAC) @ 100mcg/day split into two doses; one in the morning, one before sleep.
GHRP-2 @ 200mcg/day, same dosing scheme as the CJC.

Weeks 9-12:
Toremifene @ 100/75/50/25
-A low dose AI, haven't decided which. Most likely Aromasin or Novedex XT
-Something that will help lower cortisol, again, haven't decided. Most likely Reduce XT.
Bromocriptine @ 2.5mg/day
CJC (No DAC) @ 100mcg/day split into two doses; one in the morning, one before sleep.
GHRP-2 @ 200mcg/day, same dosing scheme as the CJC.


Training:
DC style training. This will be my first HIT styled routine. I'm probably going to modify the routine to:
Monday: Workout A- Essentially the entire upper body, excluding arms.
Tuesday: Workout B- The whole lower body, and arms.
Wednesday: Off/cardio
Thursday: Workout A
Friday: Workout B


Diet:
This is where I'm needing the most help, but this is what I've got so far:
Six meals per day consisting of:

Protein: 42g
Carbs: 50g
Fat: 7-12g

Putting me at this for the totals:
~2600-2800 cals
250g Protein
300g Carbs
42-60g Fat

O.K.

You need to cut your weekly test dosage by about 50%. You need to cut out all the other bullshit that YOU DONT NEED RIGHT NOW, YOU ARE 200LBS!!! Start with 300mg a week of test, and take Anadrol with it for 4 weeks, cycle of Anadrol for a couple weeks, keep doing test for another 8 weeks, and stop for awhile and assess your gains at that point.

Also, stick to the DC two way split. You dont need to modify it, to make it your own etc, etc. YOU ARE 200 LBS. The program has already been cut spliced and dissected and proven to be effective in its current state. You dont have to make it "Johnny's HYBRID DC, HIT, MAXOT, ULTRAHYPERTROPHY SPLIT!!!" to make it effective.

 

[dalvare1]

2600 cals isnt going to get you very far bro

make that protein 350-400g and the carbs and fats up too

and cut out all that shit just run test and an AI if you need it.

 

[JM1219]

O.K.

You need to cut your weekly test dosage by about 50%. You need to cut out all the other bullshit that YOU DONT NEED RIGHT NOW, YOU ARE 200LBS!!! Start with 300mg a week of test, and take Anadrol with it for 4 weeks, cycle of Anadrol for a couple weeks, keep doing test for another 8 weeks, and stop for awhile and assess your gains at that point.

Also, stick to the DC two way split. You dont need to modify it, to make it your own etc, etc. YOU ARE 200 LBS. The program has already been cut spliced and dissected and proven to be effective in its current state. You dont have to make it "Johnny's HYBRID DC, HIT, MAXOT, ULTRAHYPERTROPHY SPLIT!!!" to make it effective.

Thanks for the advice.
300mg of test per week is what I have planned. That's essentially what 100mg EOD comes out to.

2600 cals isnt going to get you very far bro

make that protein 350-400g and the carbs and fats up too

and cut out all that shit just run test and an AI if you need it.

I wish I could eat heavier than that, but being that I just came off a competition diet, my metabolism is in the shitter. My maintenance calories are about 2200-2400. I have to drop sub 2000 calories with about an hour of cardio per day to loose weight
But I'll definitely raise them as time passes.

 

[doglover]

New Member

I am a new member on the board and just wanted to say hello. I look forward to being part of the forums for years to come.



The Plastic Surgery Marketing Guy!

 

[muscle_n_blood]

It averages out to 350 a week, which is still just fine. Have some nolvadex handy in case you feel a need to ward off any estrogen sides. You don't need anything else for a first cycle. If you stack all that stuff up, you have no way of knowing which is doing what, to you or for you. Keep it simple, especially for your firt few go-rounds.

Thanks for the advice.
300mg of test per week is what I have planned. That's essentially what 100mg EOD comes out to.




I wish I could eat heavier than that, but being that I just came off a competition diet, my metabolism is in the shitter. My maintenance calories are about 2200-2400. I have to drop sub 2000 calories with about an hour of cardio per day to loose weight
But I'll definitely raise them as time passes.

I'm not buying this. You said you have gained back up to 9-10%, which is just fine to start a gaining cycle and add some mass. Rmember that you will be "on", so you general caloric, especially protein, requirements will be enhanced as well. You have to eat plenty to grow. You can take the most talented bricklayer in the world, give him a set of plans, and the finest tools... but if he doesn't have enough bricks, he can't build much.

 

[ROCKEDUP]

JM, how did ur show go?

 

[goonstopher]

Natural with those stats???

Wow I really don't have the genetics to even look like I workout.

 

[chris250]

If this is your first cycle...this is what I would do...

250mg Long Acting test (cyp, sust, ect) per week
.5 mg A - dex 2 x a week (mon/thurs)

do this for 10-12 weeks, come off..do PCT - probably just Novadex, Clomid...keep it simple...no need for all those peptides, ect...

See what works first, before you stack stuff together you dont know much about...

also agree that the cals are pretty low...but you could start there then add in more carbs or fats (depending on your body) and increase as it is needed...

good luck and be safe

 

[Stewie Griffon]

So, IF I decided to do a geared bulk, this is what it would look like.

Just looking for some refining, especially in the diet area. I've (obviously) been natural prior to this, and the most current research suggests that, at least for natural bodybuilders, protein requirements have been grossly overstated. One interesting bit I found supporting this was a natural pro bodybuilder who was also a scientist dieted on 75g protein per day. Training didn't change, carb intake was high, fat intake was moderate, but no more than 75g protein per day. After three months he had the exact same LBM as when he started. Anyway, enough of my ranting, point is, I'm not sure how much protein I should take in. I very seriously doubt that 400+g per day is needed by anyone, unless they're one of the handful 5'10 285 8% body fat monsters.

a scientist by definition could be a person who studies theology or philosophy, for example. this in no way makes his ideas about protein intake any more valid than an average gym rat.

75g of protein per day is extremely low. our ancestors hunting on the open plains of africa consumed a diet primarily consisting of protein and fat. carb intake was extremely low (ever try foraging all day for fruits, nuts and leaves? you get low carbs with a buttload of fiber)
in fact the amount of protein our ancestors ate would probably be considered to be toxic levels by today's ridiculous standards. when i refer to ancestors i mean within the last 100,00 years - homo sapiens the same species as ourselves. this eliminates any ideas that they had a different functioning digestive system, like our distant relatives the primates do.

remember proteins are made up from long chains of amino acids that twist and fold to give the protein an 'active site'. amino acids MUST contain nitrogen, therefore ALL proteins contain nitrogen. your body can remove nitrogen if necessary to make carbs but, your body can't magically produce nitrogen and add it to carbs to make protein. this basic logic alone tells you which is the more important of the two. besides that virtually all of the tissues in your body are made of proteins.

 

[JM1219]

Natural with those stats???

Wow I really don't have the genetics to even look like I workout.

Just takes time and consistency bud. I've been lifting for awhile.

If this is your first cycle...this is what I would do...

250mg Long Acting test (cyp, sust, ect) per week
.5 mg A - dex 2 x a week (mon/thurs)

do this for 10-12 weeks, come off..do PCT - probably just Novadex, Clomid...keep it simple...no need for all those peptides, ect...

See what works first, before you stack stuff together you dont know much about...

also agree that the cals are pretty low...but you could start there then add in more carbs or fats (depending on your body) and increase as it is needed...

good luck and be safe

Thanks for the input Chris.

a scientist by definition could be a person who studies theology or philosophy, for example. this in no way makes his ideas about protein intake any more valid than an average gym rat.

75g of protein per day is extremely low. our ancestors hunting on the open plains of africa consumed a diet primarily consisting of protein and fat. carb intake was extremely low (ever try foraging all day for fruits, nuts and leaves? you get low carbs with a buttload of fiber)
in fact the amount of protein our ancestors ate would probably be considered to be toxic levels by today's ridiculous standards. when i refer to ancestors i mean within the last 100,00 years - homo sapiens the same species as ourselves. this eliminates any ideas that they had a different functioning digestive system, like our distant relatives the primates do.

remember proteins are made up from long chains of amino acids that twist and fold to give the protein an 'active site'. amino acids MUST contain nitrogen, therefore ALL proteins contain nitrogen. your body can remove nitrogen if necessary to make carbs but, your body can't magically produce nitrogen and add it to carbs to make protein. this basic logic alone tells you which is the more important of the two. besides that virtually all of the tissues in your body are made of proteins.

Good point about the scientist. To clarify who I was referring to, it was Dr.Joe Klemczewski, (The man has several degrees, doctorate in health education, WNBF pro and has pioneered a lot of work in the bodybuilding field) . You can hear the story at Natural Bodybuilding Radio

I know it goes against mainstream bodybuilding, but I just don't buy into the whole 350-500g protein a day diets. IMO those calories would be better served as carbs to replenish glyocgen and keep insulin high at the right times.
I've seen many, many studies backing moderate protein diets, but not once have I ever seen a scientifically backed study that supported these absurd 2X+ bodyweight in protein diets.

For example,

Fern et al. (1991) found that 2.4 g/kg/d was considered protein overload, thus providing no further increase in protein synthesis for strength and power athletes. When strength athletes increased their protein consumption to 2.4 g/kg/d amino acid oxidation increased, but there was no further protein synthesis. Researchers considered this to clearly indicate a protein overload.

It is interesting to note that Consolazio et al. (1975) Marabel et al. (1979), and Dragan et al. (1985) all reported larger increases in strength, lean body mass (LBM) and nitrogen with much higher protein intakes (3.3, 2.8, and 3.5 g/kg/d respectively). These reports tend to corroborate the more anecdotal beliefs of weight lifters that extremely high dietary protein intakes are essential for optimal muscular development.

However, they still did not prove that higher intakes of more than about 1.76 g/kg/d actually were responsible for improving muscle mass during resistance training. Researchers are not exactly sure what role the extra calories might have provided by consuming that much extra protein, could have had on protein synthesis. It is further suspected that the more calories you take in over energy balance, the less protein you may actually need for optimal protein synthesis (Bucci 1993).

Fern, E.B., Bielinski, R.N., and Schultz, Y. (1991). Effects of exaggerated amino acid and protein supply in man. Experientia. 47: 168.
Consolazio, C.F., Johnson, H.L., Nelson, R.A., Dramise, J.G., and Skala, J.H. (1975). Protein metabolism during intensive physical training in the young adult. Am. J. Clin. Nutr. 28: 29.
Marable, N.L., Hickson, J.F., Korslund, M.K., Herbert, W.G., and Desjardins, R.F. (1979). Urinary nitrogen excretion as influenced by a muscle-building exercise program and protein intake variation. Nutr. Rep. Int. 19: 795.
Dragan, G.I., Vasiliu, A., and Georgescu, E. Effects of increased supply of protein on elite weight lifters. IN: Milk Proteins 1984. Galesloot, T.E. and Timbergen, B.J., Eds. Pudoc. Waningen, Netherlands.
Bucci, L. (1993). Nutritional ergogenic aids--macronutrients. IN: Nutrients as Ergogenic Aids for Sports and Exercise. Bucci, L., Ed. CRC Press. Boca Raton, FL. pp. 16.

rom Bohe et. al. :
"Overfeeding protein does not increase the size of the lean body mass, and amino acids supplied in excess of the requirements of protein synthesis are simply oxidized (Motil et al. 1981; Price et al. 1994) and their carbon skeletons used for fuel or stored as fat."

Please, don't take offense, the last thing I'm trying to do is be disrespectful. You're all being extremely helpful.
Maybe some debate would be fun.

**Photos edited out for privacy.

 

[goonstopher]

Wow. I have been on and off for almost 10 years and I don't look that good.

 

[Bruce_Campbell]

Looking good. Hit those deads and those rows HARD bro. Good luck.

 

[chris250]

Man you look great for being a natty...I would just do a simple cycle...to start with then work your way to other compounds...good luck...

 

[BigJB]

Just takes time and consistency bud. I've been lifting for awhile.



Thanks for the input Chris.



Good point about the scientist. To clarify who I was referring to, it was Dr.Joe Klemczewski, (The man has several degrees, doctorate in health education, WNBF pro and has pioneered a lot of work in the bodybuilding field) . You can hear the story at Natural Bodybuilding Radio

I know it goes against mainstream bodybuilding, but I just don't buy into the whole 350-500g protein a day diets. IMO those calories would be better served as carbs to replenish glyocgen and keep insulin high at the right times.
I've seen many, many studies backing moderate protein diets, but not once have I ever seen a scientifically backed study that supported these absurd 2X+ bodyweight in protein diets.

For example,




Please, don't take offense, the last thing I'm trying to do is be disrespectful. You're all being extremely helpful.
Maybe some debate would be fun.

**Photos edited out for privacy.

You look good, bro. You definitely need to start some heavy thickness exercises.

the 350+ grams of proteins are for "geared" bodybuilders. Trust these guys when they tell you that you will need it when you go on gear. Your body will use it and more. If you stay natty, then no, you dont need much more than 200 grams to compete around 190.

If u do go the geared route tho, ur going to have to double all of your macro intake to give ur body what it needs to utilize the gear usage.

 

[Stewie Griffon]

Please, don't take offense, the last thing I'm trying to do is be disrespectful. You're all being extremely helpful.
Maybe some debate would be fun

offense? nah bro its always great to have intelligent individuals on this board, people who think and don't blindly follow everything they hear or read!!!