I think there's been a little loss of focus on this thread, so I thought I should repost your initial post in a slightly abbreviated form.
Anyway, I've got a question 4 you & anyone else who's got a solid answer:
I've read a bro on another forum giving advice to a beginner & it was the same advice you gave. He also said that gear use by intermediate & advanced athletes was meant as an aid to break through plateaus & that if a beginner used AAS from the beginning, then even if the newbie studied & applied proper training & diet techniques, that the beginner would NOT ever be able to reach his full potential because using gear from the beginning of his training would rob him of attaining the natural foundation that BBers who start gear later on have already attained naturally.
I've never read anything scientific to support the bros advice to the beginner, but I've often wondered if there was any real sound science behind his claim or whether he just didn't like like the the idea of some newbie blasting through what took the rest of us so much time & effort to attain naturally?...
I see that having developed a strong workout plan & diet strategy is at least equal to gear in terms of getting results, but I'm not sure how a beginner could actually be limiting his long-term gains by using AAS right from the beginning of his training regimen? Assuming that the beginner got his training & diet in order early on, I would've thought that everyone's full potential would be limited by genetics, not by when they start juicing...
If anyone here knows of any published scientific data showing whether the timing of when an athlete starts AAS has any real effect on their ability to reach their full genetic potential, I'd love to read it.
It would be nice to have a properly supported answer for occassions when a newbie asks about the topic. Some of these kids at the gym are pretty good at researching stuff & I'd hate to pass on some unfounded bro-lore in an attempt to steer one away from the "dark side".
First, I appreciate the way you wrote your post. Let me say that I speak only from first hand experience both academically and training for many years in weightlifting. So my opinion comes from that background. Hopefully Alex will find the time to put a detailed answer also as I know his bodybuilding experience is first hand.
1) There isn't any valid "medical" research showing the best time to start aas as it relates to training history from western academics. It's just too difficult to do and to get funding/approval for. There are years of "methods" developed in this and numerous Russian, Bulgarian, and German studies and books on it as it relates to weightlifting. I'll add some authors at the end.
2) I know life long lifters that started out taking D-bol or T-bol within the first 4-6 weeks of beginning training for the first time. For some people, the training/aas just go together and they figure out/are taught how to train and cycle at the same time.
3) From a physiology standpoint, I'm
positive that starting out taking aas and training at a very similiar time, if you have a REAL coach from the start, will allow you to advance farther in your training than any other method. BUT, this situation is rare for the average joe and usually only occurs when talent is identified at a very early age and teens are started on a strict training program. And I'm not talking about full blown "cycles" from the start, but small dosage and training time specific anabolic support.
4) Now for the reality of what happens. The reason why it takes years to figure out training is b/c of the multi-factors. Without a real coach, it takes a long time to understand what you did right to cause growth/strength or vice/versa. If you start out taking aas, you have a hard time distinguishing what is the result of technique, diet, volume and recovery, and aas. Same problem when you start out by taking more than just one aas at the same time. You have a hard time knowing which aas is doing what for you. This is why guys that have figured out most of this stuff, like Alex, recommend getting the training and diet squared away first.
So IMO, it isn't that starting the gear at the beginning is physiologically going to hinder your full advancement if you didn't advance first without it. It's more of not knowing the "cause and effect" relationships.
5) My final thought, and I swear I preach this up and down to everyone I meet and I write this for anyone just starting out that may be reading this post, is that I am a 100% believer in Bill Starr/Mark Rippetoe philosophy for ALL beginning lifters that are not being coached by a real professional coach. If you can't hire a real coach, not an internet trainer, then I believe in buying Mark's book "Starting Strength 2nd Edition" and "Practical Programming" or at the very least going to the wiki website and learning how to begin training. I'm a firm believer in following his program for a couple of years, and don't make ANY adjustments. Don't substitue rows for cleans, ect. . . . Then after a couple of years, decide about branching out into bodybuilding, powerlifting, or olympic. This is what I preach to anyone that is serious about lifting and doesn't start off with a real coach. You will be bigger and stonger by doing this for your first two years vs starting a bodybuilding program from the start. It's all about the core foundational strength.
Of course this isn't the only way, but it's the tried and true way of gaining the proper foundation for any form of lifting. I was fortunate enough at 14 years old to be coached this way from the start.
If interested, look into the following authors: Vladimir Zatsiorsky, YV Verkhoshansky, Rick Brunner/Ben Tabachnik, Nikolai Petrovich Lamputin. These guys are top notch in research/studies/training/recovery methods and such. Probably the closest you will find regarding scientific research and real life training results. These guys laid the foundations years ago for training.
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