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Overall cycle advice...

RunNPump

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Jun 14, 2012
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354
Se here is the deal about me.
I am 36 years old, 213lbs, probably 23% or so bf. I’ve cycled here and there for 8 years and constantly reading the forums at a few places so I know the basics about juicing. I practice Kempo 2 to 3 times weekly and I have a full time job during the day. I’ve lost 30 pounds of fat in the last year. I had 2 martial arts injuries in a row, both requiring surgery to repair tendons. I sat and stuffed my face for basically a year in all so that’s the weight gain plus I’ve never been a lean person just strong as shit. Now you know my fking life story.

I want to run some HGH for tissue repair/strengthening and hopefully recover some of that youthful recovery time during intense workouts. I also want to throw some gear in there at 2-3 short cycles per year. By short I mean 8 weeks plus pct.
Something along these lines:
HGH @ 5iu, 3x a week after workouts for a year subcutaneous
8 weeks of:
Sustanon @ 1ml every 5 days (fewer injections)
Proviron @ 50mg/day (hardening)
Arimedex @ 10mcg/day (bloat)
Clomid @ 50mg/day all the way through the gear plus 3 weeks post (nuts)

The only thing I’m stuck on is the retention of the solid muscle. Will proviron be enough to harden things up long term? I could run winny but my joints…
Can I get some input on this design? Feel free to ask questions and thanks in advance.
 

TrinityD

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Hardening is really your diet and cardio.
 

raw33man

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yea, at 23% brother, good luck seeing any hardening effects
 

Growman

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One shot of sust every 5 days? You wont see much with that and running clomid during would be a waste because it is such a short low dose cycle.

Why dont you run just HGH, dose it more frequently like 5iu 5-6 days a week, and diet your ass of for 3-4 months. Then think about gear...
 

ALLEX

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Oct 18, 2006
Messages
6,884
You need to get lean.

Do 20mg of test every day plus 2iu of HGH every morning and night. That should help you lose fat while keeping muscle.

Work on your diet and training until you get down to 10-12% BF and only then think about a cycle.

Also, forget all the ancies and PCT. You shouldn't need an AI on this dose and TRT is your best option at 36 anyway.

Good luck.
 

RunNPump

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Jun 14, 2012
Messages
354
One shot of sust every 5 days? You wont see much with that and running clomid during would be a waste because it is such a short low dose cycle.

Why dont you run just HGH, dose it more frequently like 5iu 5-6 days a week, and diet your ass of for 3-4 months. Then think about gear...
I would totally run HGH by itself. That's what I'm trying to learn more about since I've never run HGH. Based on my reading everyone insists to have a test base of some sort. The low dosage of test is because of martial arts training. I did 500/week of sust when I was lifting weights years ago and it was great but I think it will kill my cardio, don't you think?

To put it in perspective would 5iu 5-6 days per week of HGH be comparable to 500mg/week of sust? I'm trying to gauge the effects.
 

RunNPump

Banned
Joined
Jun 14, 2012
Messages
354
You need to get lean.

Do 20mg of test every day plus 2iu of HGH every morning and night. That should help you lose fat while keeping muscle.

Work on your diet and training until you get down to 10-12% BF and only then think about a cycle.

Also, forget all the ancies and PCT. You shouldn't need an AI on this dose and TRT is your best option at 36 anyway.

Good luck.
Mhmm so prop... I like prop too but I hate the daily injects. site soreness messes me up too but at the small dosage it will probably not be too noticeable, plus less scarring... Good input.

No clomid though? I feel like I'm super sensitive to shutdown but you're right I've been leaning toward the idea of TRT.
 
Last edited:

ALLEX

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Messages
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Mhmm so prop... I like prop too but I hate the daily injects. site soreness messes me up too but at the small dosage it will probably not be too noticeable, plus less scarring... Good input.

No clomid though? I feel like I'm super sensitive to shutdown but you're right I've been leaning toward the idea of TRT.
No need to be prop. You can inject test e. daily no problem. Daily injects will prevent too much estrogen conversion and less sides overall because of more steady levels.

I hate clomid.
 

RunNPump

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Jun 14, 2012
Messages
354
Thanks for your input so far Allex.

I had my test measured at about 250 last year. I did an HCG and clomid cycle for about 2 months and felt way better. I thought maybe I had fucked up a PCT at some point or something.

To be clear TRT is basically a forever thing, right? I haven't read anything about it being temporary. It's assuming that a guy's natural levels are getting low at this age (mine is) so he needs some substitution. But if at some point the TRT stops then the situation will be worse than before, right?

I'm leaning toward your recommendation but I'll go and get tested at the doctor first to make sure it's not related to some other imbalance. After all I do have insurance. If the doc says "yep your test is low due to age" then I think your recommendation is totally legit.
 

RunNPump

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Jun 14, 2012
Messages
354
BTW I made an error on my math for my BF%. It's not 23%. I'm 213 and target is 185-190 so that's like 12-14% BF. It's all in my gut though. I know it's terrible.
 

ALLEX

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Oct 18, 2006
Messages
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To be clear TRT is basically a forever thing, right?

Yes.

I haven't read anything about it being temporary. It's assuming that a guy's natural levels are getting low at this age (mine is) so he needs some substitution.

Age varies, but 36 with AAS usage normally leads to low levels.

But if at some point the TRT stops then the situation will be worse than before, right?

Right.

I'm leaning toward your recommendation but I'll go and get tested at the doctor first to make sure it's not related to some other imbalance. After all I do have insurance. If the doc says "yep your test is low due to age" then I think your recommendation is totally legit.

Docs can't really tell if it's age or genetic condition, but they usually can tell if it's steroid related by looking at your FSH and LH levels. And most will only put you on TRT if your levels are really low.
BTW I made an error on my math for my BF%. It's not 23%. I'm 213 and target is 185-190 so that's like 12-14% BF. It's all in my gut though. I know it's terrible.
That math would work only if goal was 0% BF, which is impossible. 12% is pretty lean, if you're a little chubby, there's no way you are 12-14%. Post a picture and we'll give you a ballpark. Or maybe use this chart:

 

RunNPump

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Jun 14, 2012
Messages
354
That math would work only if goal was 0% BF, which is impossible. 12% is pretty lean, if you're a little chubby, there's no way you are 12-14%. Post a picture and we'll give you a ballpark. Or maybe use this chart:

Ok then I was right before. Looking at the chart I'm 25% or maybe a little higher. My target would be 10 to 12%. But realistically 15% would be pretty good for my genetics. That's what I looked like when I was 20.
 
Last edited:

RunNPump

Banned
Joined
Jun 14, 2012
Messages
354
You need to get lean.

Do 20mg of test every day plus 2iu of HGH every morning and night. That should help you lose fat while keeping muscle.

Work on your diet and training until you get down to 10-12% BF and only then think about a cycle.

Also, forget all the ancies and PCT. You shouldn't need an AI on this dose and TRT is your best option at 36 anyway.

Good luck.
Would there be noticeable water retention with this? Some posts talk about GH causing retention.

I heard to do the GH in the morning and early afternoon like after work (not before bed time) so it does not disrupt sleep or natural GH production during REM. Any thoughts?

Also, for targeted fat loss the GH should be done subcutaneous rather than IM, right? Is there a drawback to sub. vs IM?
 

little slice

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It means at my leanest ever I was probably still over 12%BF. That was years ago. My genetics.


are you saying that your genetics prevent you from getting lean?
 

RunNPump

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are you saying that your genetics prevent you from getting lean?
I'm saying It's hard for me to visualize myself at my leanest composition ever at age 36+, not that it's impossible, and yes I'm trying to get there.

Do you have some sort of feedback for me? I'm trying to ask serious questions.
 
Last edited:

little slice

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I'm saying It's hard for me to visualize myself at my leanest composition ever at age 36+, not that it's impossible, and yes I'm trying to get there.

Do you have some sort of feedback for me? I'm trying to ask serious questions.



I just see a lot of people blaming "my genetics" (pronounced "muh genetuhhks") for being chubby/fat, etc..


it's called diet, training, and cardio. get your hormones in line, and anyone can be really lean.
 

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