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Overall training volume can't be all that matters...

In fact staying away from failure can be a very effective way to train. The 5x5 routine for example is great. If you want to do heavy weight and high volume, you have to always leave a few reps in the tank. It's still very intense, as you are lifting very heavy weight, you are just stopping before failure.
Yeah, that's how you get a decent amount of volume. If you went to failure every set you'd burn out. I agree that the 5×5 is great for putting on strength and size. So some volume is good. Just have to watch out for over training. Some say that there is no such thing as over training, only under eating and not enough sleep etc. Hogwash.
 
I some times wonder if the mind is being trained some times as opposed to the muscle. Since both are needed for real long term progress.

I agree completely.

I look at weight lifting as mind training. If you can't concentrate sufficiently, then
your results will suffer as a consequence unless you are one of those one in ten
million that grow just by looking at a weight ;)

At 65, I get asked occasionally, like today when I went to the gym, what I do to
to look like I do (nothing special in my opinion). They say they do the same
exercises as I do so why don't I look like you? Why is that?

My reply, when I don't reply with a smart ass answer like "just lucky I guess"
is usually to leave you sell phone in your locker, that is the first thing you do.
Then don't stop talking with every Tom, Dick and Harry in the gym, especially
when your are in the middle of an exercise (I see trainers who do this constantly
with their clients; them both talking casually when doing an exercise like they
are at a cocktail party.) In short, stay completely focused on each and every
exercise like it's you last workout, ever, like your life depended on it.

I only notice other people when they are in my way or using something I want
to use. I am not rude, just completely focused. No music streaming into my
ears. In my opinion it's the uninterrupted mind / body connection that one
needs to achieve meaning results. It not fun or easy which is probably why
many people don't achieve the desired results.

Could go on and on but the bottom line is the mind is an incredibly powerful
tool if used correctly.
 
I know for me that if my mind isn't properly into the lift that my chances of getting an injury go way up. I've had days where my mind was on work or something else personal that I was worried about, and then I lose concentration during the lift and pull a muscle real bad.
 
Great post. I agree with the exception of the music. Im either bombarded with the gyms garbage music, listening to someone grunting or yelling, or hearing someone else's conversation and there is absolutely nothing more distracting to me than being involved in someone elses conversation due the distance of your ears to their mouths.

I wish I could tune it out but i cant. Bluetooth headphones are one of the greatest inventions ever.


I agree completely.

I look at weight lifting as mind training. If you can't concentrate sufficiently, then
your results will suffer as a consequence unless you are one of those one in ten
million that grow just by looking at a weight ;)

At 65, I get asked occasionally, like today when I went to the gym, what I do to
to look like I do (nothing special in my opinion). They say they do the same
exercises as I do so why don't I look like you? Why is that?

My reply, when I don't reply with a smart ass answer like "just lucky I guess"
is usually to leave you sell phone in your locker, that is the first thing you do.
Then don't stop talking with every Tom, Dick and Harry in the gym, especially
when your are in the middle of an exercise (I see trainers who do this constantly
with their clients; them both talking casually when doing an exercise like they
are at a cocktail party.) In short, stay completely focused on each and every
exercise like it's you last workout, ever, like your life depended on it.

I only notice other people when they are in my way or using something I want
to use. I am not rude, just completely focused. No music streaming into my
ears. In my opinion it's the uninterrupted mind / body connection that one
needs to achieve meaning results. It not fun or easy which is probably why
many people don't achieve the desired results.

Could go on and on but the bottom line is the mind is an incredibly powerful
tool if used correctly.
 
I used to lift at a PL gym, so it was mostly 4-5 people in the whole damn place when it was busy. I didn’t use music, I loved the quiet and just the sound of the box fan and steel clanking.

But now I lift at a commercial $15 a month gym and I HAVE to have music to drown out the Maroon 5 and dumbshits talking. It doesn’t help I’m ADD, I can NOT get into a groove there without headphones
 
I some times wonder if the mind is being trained some times as opposed to the muscle. Since both are needed for real long term progress.

Of course it is, you're developing neuromuscular connections as you advance. I am still finding better ways to truly connect with some body parts. You never stop learning about your own body, or you shouldn't, at least.
 
Of course it is, you're developing neuromuscular connections as you advance. I am still finding better ways to truly connect with some body parts. You never stop learning about your own body, or you shouldn't, at least.
While I agree with that I was thinking more along the lines of enduring pain or discomfort. Especially on high 100 rep sets of leg presses or squats and such.
 
The analogy of say .. swimmers.. doing high volume and not being big is not accurate for a few reasons. Most that swimmers arent Coming close to failure and arent under much of a load.. so yes endurance athletes etc arent going to be big etc..
That being said on the flip side it's very difficult to go to failure on numerous sets and get much volume. So which is best?
I have a tendency to error on going to failure and doing less volume.. its " feels right"... but it's also very draining on the cns and is not the healthiest way long term.. it also requires longer rest periods between sets etc
If I'm being totally honest I'd say most will have better long term gains stopping a rep short of failure and doing more volume .. now will I do that ? Probably not .. I have awful ADD and need to get in and out lol
 
In order to make the argument that volume and progressive volume works, then you first have to define what the volume is.
Are we talking ANY set? What intensity is "this" volume at?

That entire point is the reason there is a huge push for Reps In Reserve right now. Yes, volume can work over time. But in RIR they are progressively increasing intensity over the volume.
 
The analogy of say .. swimmers.. doing high volume and not being big is not accurate for a few reasons. Most that swimmers arent Coming close to failure and arent under much of a load.. so yes endurance athletes etc arent going to be big etc..
That being said on the flip side it's very difficult to go to failure on numerous sets and get much volume. So which is best?
I have a tendency to error on going to failure and doing less volume.. its " feels right"... but it's also very draining on the cns and is not the healthiest way long term.. it also requires longer rest periods between sets etc
If I'm being totally honest I'd say most will have better long term gains stopping a rep short of failure and doing more volume .. now will I do that ? Probably not .. I have awful ADD and need to get in and out lol
I think ideally a lifter will do both kinds of training, using periodization. Try to go by feel once you are experienced enough, and early on it should probably be programmed into your routine.
 
i dont think i have ever heard "volume is the key to growth"
more like too much volume is the key to NOT growing. i followed Arnolds workout in the Encyclopedia of Bodybuilding was a natural very healthy 16 years of age. After one week of following his workout i got sick. it was waaaaay too much volume plus i was not enhanced so was even worse. But NEVER ever in my bbing "carreer" did i ever do "high volume" i am a student of Phil Hernon and Milos Sarcev. Phil basically proved to me high volume crazy giant sets arent necassary. i grew as good or better than when following milos giant sets etc.
-F2S

I also grew stronger and faster than I ever had when working with Phil many years ago with that style of training! I was probably in the best shape i had been in before and since, tbh.
 
I think low volume heavy weight works your fast twitch muscle fibers but to fully work the slow twitch fibers you need either higher reps or higher volume . I think that's why some people respond better nto high volume there genetic make up has more slow twitch fibers
 
Just to spark this debate again, one of the latest Menno Henselmans study reviews on training volume which basically found 32 sets done to failure per body part to be more effective than 16 or 24 sets to failure per body part (highly advised to follow him if you're into science):

https://mennohenselmans.com/high-re...nces-muscle-thickness-resistance-trained-men/

Discuss :D
32 sets per week, for how many weeks can you do that, progressively?

I can see it trump the lower volume programs on a 1 week basis (as in the study if I read it right). I’m doubting it will trump those lower volume programs in the long run.

Let’s say you train 8 weeks progressively Before deloading and start at week 1 with 32 sets to failure,imo You are losing a very easy applicable strategy to progress (increasing volume). Your sleep and rest will have to be perfect to recover from 32 sets to failure while increasing the weights over the 8 week periode.


how long are you guys training progressively before deloading?
 
32 sets per week, for how many weeks can you do that, progressively?

I can see it trump the lower volume programs on a 1 week basis (as in the study if I read it right). I’m doubting it will trump those lower volume programs in the long run.

Let’s say you train 8 weeks progressively Before deloading and start at week 1 with 32 sets to failure,imo You are losing a very easy applicable strategy to progress (increasing volume). Your sleep and rest will have to be perfect to recover from 32 sets to failure while increasing the weights over the 8 week periode.


how long are you guys training progressively before deloading?

I think you're right and that has also been my experience. You can't train with that volume with every set to failure for weeks on end without digging yourself into a hole. It's not something I will personally be doing any time soon since I sometimes hardly recover doing my 3 to 4 working sets to failure per body part once a week :ROFLMAO:

I just occasionally take a week off from the gym, probably about once every 3 to 4 months.
 
Exercise Science has concluded so for the most part from everything I've read throughout the years. Not that I personally agree with it, I agree with you guys that intensity is the most important parameter by far. But science mostly disagrees with us.
I don't see any 'exercise science' saying this, in fact the opposite. I also don't see volume promoted by very many bodybuilders. Where is this science? And btw, there are no really good studies on exercise science at the level bodybuilders practice it at.

The researchers compared 3 groups of intermediately trained men.
 
Exercise Science has concluded so for the most part from everything I've read throughout the years. Not that I personally agree with it, I agree with you guys that intensity is the most important parameter by far. But science mostly disagrees with us.
What???? Exercise science has backed Dorian
 
As far as the OP's question about having found the sweet spot: I've found training body parts 1-2x/week (I prefer once a week but I'm a very weak recoverer) with 3-4 exercises (per week) done in a pyramiding fashion working up to one all out set of 6-12 (or up to 20 reps on legs) reps to work best. Basically how almost all of the Pro's train. It can't be a coincidence that almost everyone does it this way. It's also what the infamous gh15 advises in his bible.
Who the %$&^&*ER%^ says all the pros train that way?
 
I don't see any 'exercise science' saying this, in fact the opposite. I also don't see volume promoted by very many bodybuilders. Where is this science? And btw, there are no really good studies on exercise science at the level bodybuilders practice it at.
What???? Exercise science has backed Dorian

Kaladryn: most of the major studies are reviewed by Henselmans on his website.

Dadbod: Where has it backed Dorian so far? From everything I've seen apart from 1 study, they all concluded volume is king. Again, not that I agree with it personally but that was conclusion in the majority of the studies done so far.
 
Who the %$&^&*ER%^ says all the pros train that way?

When I said 'all of the pro's' I obviously meant the majority of them. From every training video I've seen, most of them train the way I described earlier and the way I train myself as well. Of course there will be some exceptions but the majority does it like that.

But keep your tone down ;)
 

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