• All new members please introduce your self here and welcome to the board:
    http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
M4B Store Banner
intex
Riptropin Store banner
Generation X Bodybuilding Forum
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Mysupps Store Banner
IP Gear Store Banner
PM-Ace-Labs
Ganabol Store Banner
Spend $100 and get bonus needles free at sterile syringes
Professional Muscle Store open now
sunrise2
PHARMAHGH1
kinglab
ganabol2
Professional Muscle Store open now
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
azteca
granabolic1
napsgear-210x65
advertise1
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
ashp210
UGFREAK-banner-PM
esquel
YMSGIF210x65-Banner
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store

People eat too much protein

^^^ehhh well there has been a few overfeeding studies on protein, basically the gist was a hyper caloric diet vs a hyper caloric diet PLUS 500 calories more protein. The more protein group gained no more body fat than the standard hypercaloric group even though taking in 3500-4000 calories more a week

Weird shit happens in protein overfeedings.

I’ll post the study after morning rounds with the doc.

And I’m not saying to overfees on calories, just saying calories in bs calories out is least accurate when we drastically change protein amounts.

Calories in vs calories out still applies. It always applies. You just changed both ends of the equation. If the group eating more protein / calories didn't gain weight it's because they also burned more calories.
 
I'm with the "overdosing on protein isn't necessary" team. Animals that eat scant amounts of protein are some of the strongest and most muscular creatures on the planet. When I started realizing this, I stopped hammering protein. My wallet and my kidneys appreciated my epiphany.
 
Calories in vs calories out still applies. It always applies. You just changed both ends of the equation. If the group eating more protein / calories didn't gain weight it's because they also burned more calories.

"Calories in vs out still applies" To some degree, but what kind of food you eat makes a massive difference. There was a recent IMO fairly ground breaking study comparing weight loss/gain on plant based vs keto and keto was able to loose the same or more with better composition with on average 700+ calories per day.

I've personally seen this with myself as well, when my protein is very high I can get away eating more calories without fat gain. When I add in carbs in excess have to be way more careful not to gain fat.
 
"Calories in vs out still applies" To some degree, but what kind of food you eat makes a massive difference. There was a recent IMO fairly ground breaking study comparing weight loss/gain on plant based vs keto and keto was able to loose the same or more with better composition with on average 700+ calories per day.

I've personally seen this with myself as well, when my protein is very high I can get away eating more calories without fat gain. When I add in carbs in excess have to be way more careful not to gain fat.

Post the study.
 
Post the study.
The problem is this: consuming a lot of saturated fat on a keto diet increases your bad cholesterol and restricts blood flow to all major organs. Whereas consuming a lot of plant-based foods improves cholesterol levels and significantly improves blood flow to all major organs ( including your sex organs). 😉 Therefore, unless you are prepping for a show, I believe it’s best to hold onto a little more body fat and remain healthy.
 
Post the study.

Here it is:


Again I'm not claiming to be an expert on this, just going from personal experience and research to my knowledge.

In a calorie deficit I don't think it really matters all that much but in a big surplus I've definitely kept tighter when the surplus is protein vs junk food/carbs.

and this is anectodale of course but if you browse through keto/carnivore groups, those bulking are on much higher calories than "normal" with minimal body fat gains. If you want something a bit more scientific you can see the work Dr. Peter Attia has posted, when he was doing his keto experiements for years he was eating around 4000 cals a day to sustain himself @ 180 pounds or so, several dexa scans to show body composition - and regarding cholesterol his numbers were supper high but not damaging, he posted several tests for arteries etc.
 
I personally disagree with every single person on this thread about low protein intake while trying to gain the most muscle mass. Its like you all have forgotten 50 years of something working. Do you know what has proven the test of time? That steroids work. That lifting progressively works. And that higher protein intake works. Do you think the millions of bodybuilders would do it if it didnt work?!?! They did it because it worked for the last 50 years! If things dont work (they fall to the wayside over time) You can argue about it all day long because some of you dont personally want to do it but the fact is virtually EVERY SINGLE MASSIVE bodybuilder from the last 50 years used higher protein amounts to get there. From Mccarver to Dorian to Francois to Palumbo to Sandoe to Coleman and on and on, you name the over 250lb bodybuilder and they usually took in at least 60 grams per meal. Have you guys ever seen a massive vegan bodybuilder?!?! No? Gee whiz i wonder why!

There are a bunch of guys on this thread who for health reasons or (digestion, etc) who want to speak out loud to convince themselves and others that what they HAVE TO DO now is working....or their whole belief system goes in the garbage can. Noone told you that you had to eat red meat 6 meals a day!!! You decided to go that route. Cant digest the high protein diet you used? Then thats your fault!!! You should have found proteins you can digest well. Protein powders bloat you? Again your fault!!! You needed to find out the protein (pea, egg, micellar, isolate etc) that agreed with you. Now that you take in an abundance of carbs do you stay with carbs that bloat you and you cant digest? NO? Why not? You did it with protein didnt you?!

50 grams of protein, 100 grams of protein...I cant even believe what I am reading here. CHECK THE SCOREBOARD! Every single massive bodybuilder did it with high protein in his formative years! Now i look around in comedy at all the pro's and top trainers who say you dont need high protein and what is the resounding fact?! Every single one of them built their physiques with high protein in the beginning and now and only now that they have size they are saying "low protein, higher carbs"....really? Why the heck didnt you do that when you were putting on your size then?

So many people fool themselves into thinking what they are doing now is what made them. Maintenance is not gaining! The whole problem with this argument is the modern day bodybuilder uses so many drug milligrams that they convince themselves that whatever "they are doing" is working. It is the exact same thing as saying "Look i can train in a pool curling milk jugs of sand and its working!" Of course it is working! Your on drugs! Take your drugs away for a good amount of time and I guarantee you a bunch of you would sing a different tune on alot of things....including diet.

I see this whole modern day bodybuilding movement saying "you dont need to lift that hard anymore", you dont need to eat that much anymore" to get big......its pure comedy. Of course its easy to do it now when you load up a turkey baster to exceed all plateaus. That wasnt done far and wide in the old days when guys got after it training wise and took in alot of protein all day and the drug dosages were 1/4 to 1/2 of what is used now. Want to know the greatest single lab experiment ever done on bodybuilding in the history of the sport? OBSERVE! Go to 1000 gyms across america and observe 99% of the gym goers who "dont train very hard" and "dont eat very much"....do you see anyone getting huge? No, no you dont!

The biggest thickest heavyweights and superheavyweight bodybuilders from the 90's to now ...virtually all of them took in large amounts of protein, and virtually all of them trained heavy for reps.....it worked then and it still works now............its straight out ludricous to me how many super large people get total amnesia and forget totally how they got super large in the first place. They tell everyone what they are doing "now"...which is by and large a comfortable way of eating for them. "Now" also means you havent put on any size in the last 5 years also for most of these guys. Who cares what you are doing now...thats not what you did to get that way! Do you see any of the various large bodybuilders that are proclaiming today "you dont need much protein" gaining any appreciable muscle mass over these last recent years? They haven't changed one bit in size have they? Think back when they WERE actually gaining a bunch of muscle mass...what were they doing? Eating large amounts of protein. But they have convinced themselves and YOU that what they are doing nowadays is working. The scale and the mirror doesn't lie. Most of these guys are the exact same size they have been for the last 5 years. And they totally forgot what they did in the VERY years that they were gaining all that muscle mass, which for most people was in their first 5-8 years of training (which again was high protein and heavy weights).
 
I dare you, any of you to go train a natural guy who has been training for 4-5 years and is stuck at a plateau who dramatically wants to get bigger and take him thru the paces. Make sure you tell him, "we only need 50 grams of protein a day" and to boot "you dont need to train hard".....watch how quickly he fires you as his trainer in 6 months for getting him nowhere. Bodybuilding the only sport in the world where people over analyze to the 1000th degree and disregard what has been accomplished for the last 50 years time and time again.....a proven track record. If you can create a demand (hard heavy training) you can create a need for supply (protein). That bikini girl over there is obviously not going to need as much protein as a 285lb behemoth who is repping out 500lb squats and deadlifts....but I can absolutely guarantee you that 285lb behemoth sure as hell didnt get that way from eating 100 grams of protein a day ....he ate 1.5 grams of protein per lb to get there....alot of guys on this board love to post their opinions on "what they are personally doing"...and i see a bunch of guys with "self inflicted health problems" who have to stay in this tight little box because they did inflict those health problems on to themselves...who try to convince everyone around them that "you should do it too".....

I swear the steroid culture in this sport has convinced people they know what they are talking about. EVERYBODY GAINS 25LBS ON STEROIDS...EVERYBODY!!! It doesnt mean jack crap. Want to know when someone really knows their stuff? When they take natural bodybuilders and enhanced bodybuilders who have been lifting hard for 6-8 years who are tapped out and they get them up to a whole new level in size. Then you know your stuff!

If you never ate a carbohydrate again you would be just fine. Try to do that without protein or fats. Good chance you would end up very unhealthy, sick or even dying. Bodybuilding was and has always been about excess....what are carbohydrates....they are simply fuel/glycogen......its a visual look/energy thats predominately all it is! Here... tomorrow lower your protein grams down to zero.....eat 6 carb meals with fluid and then cut your water intake at 3pm....youll wake up the next morning looking like a million bucks....round as hell....and muscular. Do you think you gained any muscle mass? No you didnt! Not one bit. Its just a visual look. So you can go ahead and lower your protein grams and fill those protein grams with carbohydrates....you will have your wish... will always be round, with full muscle cells......is it contributing to gains in muscle mass? No it is not! You are just not flat and your living the dream of any and all muscle that you built years prior.

I dont know why so many people in bodybuilding cannot step outside of their own personal drug using box and think "hmmm what would natural me do?".....Because natural "you" would get absolutely nowhere with some of the stuff you guys on this board recommend people....(advice you give while you a pounding down mg's of drugs to convince you what you are saying is correct). Id love to see some of you guys on here train some natural guys and the lengths you got to go thru training wise and eating wise to get them larger while not getting fat...its a real eye opening experience when you dont have "the good old PED club" in your back pocket. Alot of you would look at things much much differently.

Some of this advice on this thread is pure looney tunes. Bad digestion, health problems...YOUR FAULT! I sure as hell dont carb up on baked beans and blame it on those "darn carbohydrates".....so you guys go right ahead......50 years of proof from the most massive bodybuilders who have walked the earth vs random guys on professional muscle .....if it didnt work.....they would not have done it and still wouldnt be doing it. Every highly touted drug (pgf2, MGF etc etc) and every highly touted supplement (Ohb, ribose etc) which ended up not working was thrown to the wayside.....because THEY DIDNT WORK for the masses, things that have stood the test of time (steroids, progressive lifting, creatine, higher protien intake) the reason why they stand the test of time is because power in numbers have proven it works! Do you know what has proven not to work to create massive bodybuilders? Being Vegan.

Again this sport is so "johnny come lately"......the same exact people saying "you dont need to eat protein to get big".....ate protein to get big when they were actually getting big! Of the 3 macros the one that is the red headed step child..is carbs. Very little importance for actual muscle mass accumulation. Want to have energy? Want to trick yourself and look round? Carbohydrates. A short term visual fix (or long term if you are happy with the muscle mass you have and want to look round all the time)

Some of you guys need to step outside your own personal bubble and train massive pro bodybuilders....I freaking dare you to tell them "dude you only need 100 grams of protein a day....thats how we are going to get you to the next level"......you will fail and you will get fired.


Just because you personally like to do something doesnt mean its the best method for the masses. 50 years of power in numbers and virtually an across the board opinion by the most massive amateurs and pro's out there who are taking 350-400 plus grams of protein a day when they are trying to get larger sure as hell supersede a bunch of guys on pro muscle's opinion.
 
I dare you, any of you to go train a natural guy who has been training for 4-5 years and is stuck at a plateau who dramatically wants to get bigger and take him thru the paces. Make sure you tell him, "we only need 50 grams of protein a day" and to boot "you dont need to train hard".....watch how quickly he fires you as his trainer in 6 months for getting him nowhere. Bodybuilding the only sport in the world where people over analyze to the 1000th degree and disregard what has been accomplished for the last 50 years time and time again.....a proven track record. If you can create a demand (hard heavy training) you can create a need for supply (protein). That bikini girl over there is obviously not going to need as much protein as a 285lb behemoth who is repping out 500lb squats and deadlifts....but I can absolutely guarantee you that 285lb behemoth sure as hell didnt get that way from eating 100 grams of protein a day ....he ate 1.5 grams of protein per lb to get there....alot of guys on this board love to post their opinions on "what they are personally doing"...and i see a bunch of guys with "self inflicted health problems" who have to stay in this tight little box because they did inflict those health problems on to themselves...who try to convince everyone around them that "you should do it too".....

I swear the steroid culture in this sport has convinced people they know what they are talking about. EVERYBODY GAINS 25LBS ON STEROIDS...EVERYBODY!!! It doesnt mean jack crap. Want to know when someone really knows their stuff? When they take natural bodybuilders and enhanced bodybuilders who have been lifting hard for 6-8 years who are tapped out and they get them up to a whole new level in size. Then you know your stuff!

If you never ate a carbohydrate again you would be just fine. Try to do that without protein or fats. Good chance you would end up very unhealthy, sick or even dying. Bodybuilding was and has always been about excess....what are carbohydrates....they are simply fuel/glycogen......its a visual look/energy thats predominately all it is! Here... tomorrow lower your protein grams down to zero.....eat 6 carb meals with fluid and then cut your water intake at 3pm....youll wake up the next morning looking like a million bucks....round as hell....and muscular. Do you think you gained any muscle mass? No you didnt! Not one bit. Its just a visual look. So you can go ahead and lower your protein grams and fill those protein grams with carbohydrates....you will have your wish... will always be round, with full muscle cells......is it contributing to gains in muscle mass? No it is not! You are just not flat and your living the dream of any and all muscle that you built years prior.

I dont know why so many people in bodybuilding cannot step outside of their own personal drug using box and think "hmmm what would natural me do?".....Because natural "you" would get absolutely nowhere with some of the stuff you guys on this board recommend people....(advice you give while you a pounding down mg's of drugs to convince you what you are saying is correct). Id love to see some of you guys on here train some natural guys and the lengths you got to go thru training wise and eating wise to get them larger while not getting fat...its a real eye opening experience when you dont have "the good old PED club" in your back pocket. Alot of you would look at things much much differently.

Some of this advice on this thread is pure looney tunes. Bad digestion, health problems...YOUR FAULT! I sure as hell dont carb up on baked beans and blame it on those "darn carbohydrates".....so you guys go right ahead......50 years of proof from the most massive bodybuilders who have walked the earth vs random guys on professional muscle .....if it didnt work.....they would not have done it and still wouldnt be doing it. Every highly touted drug (pgf2, MGF etc etc) and every highly touted supplement (Ohb, ribose etc) which ended up not working was thrown to the wayside.....because THEY DIDNT WORK for the masses, things that have stood the test of time (steroids, progressive lifting, creatine, higher protien intake) the reason why they stand the test of time is because power in numbers have proven it works! Do you know what has proven not to work to create massive bodybuilders? Being Vegan.

Again this sport is so "johnny come lately"......the same exact people saying "you dont need to eat protein to get big".....ate protein to get big when they were actually getting big! Of the 3 macros the one that is the red headed step child..is carbs. Very little importance for actual muscle mass accumulation. Want to have energy? Want to trick yourself and look round? Carbohydrates. A short term visual fix (or long term if you are happy with the muscle mass you have and want to look round all the time)

Some of you guys need to step outside your own personal bubble and train massive pro bodybuilders....I freaking dare you to tell them "dude you only need 100 grams of protein a day....thats how we are going to get you to the next level"......you will fail and you will get fired.


Just because you personally like to do something doesnt mean its the best method for the masses. 50 years of power in numbers and virtually an across the board opinion by the most massive amateurs and pro's out there who are taking 350-400 plus grams of protein a day when they are trying to get larger sure as hell supersede a bunch of guys on pro muscle's opinion.

Dante,

In your opinion, how much protein per pound of body weight should a natural bodybuilder aim for versus an enhanced bodybuilder for maximal growth?
 
Hey DC....have you been putting extra caffeine in your protein shakes lately?:coffee:🤪 Just joking...I totally agree with your last posts. Thanks for continuing to come to ProM. Your knowledge is priceless.
 
Just because you personally like to do something doesnt mean its the best method for the masses. 50 years of power in numbers and virtually an across the board opinion by the most massive amateurs and pro's out there who are taking 350-400 plus grams of protein a day when they are trying to get larger sure as hell supersede a bunch of guys on pro muscle's opinion.

I took this thread as a more nuanced discussion on the amount of protein needed within a range that is still "bodybuilder" nutrition, although I'm sure some of the posts aren't. 350-400g of protein for a massive bodybuilder is comparative to a low protein diet by most people's standards here. 400g of protein is 1200 calories, that's less than a third and probably less than a quarter of total daily calories for someone massive. I think a number of smaller people are eating 50%+ of their total calories from protein and overdoing it unnecessarily, although it might work fine in some cases, those are probably rare.

If my BUN is too high while well hydrated (above 20 or so) I will lower my protein. If my BUN is too low (usually in the low teens) I'll increase my protein. I got this from an alternative medicine doctor I like.
 
I think anyone who is serious about packing on muscle needs to take in high protein. It's weird though because on here these days "high" can mean very different things to everyone. The same could be said for the term "huge" as well. Growing and maintaining are also very different and just because I can maintain on 150-200g protein per day it doesn't mean I would use that amount to try and grow muscle. As I posted there are many ways to do things but I would think anyone who is serious about getting legit huge would be eventually going over 400g protein per day. As I previously posted in this thread that is my planned protein intake for approx 260 and I consider it a fairly sensible amount and nothing excessive.

Carbs are protein sparing but most people trying to get legit huge should surely be taking it high amounts of both. 400g protein and 400g carbs is only 3200 calories then you add say 100g fat and that is only 4100 cals. That for me is a very basic but effective ratio for that amount of cals and obviously you can decide what macro you want to use for the rest of your calories. For me I am a carb guy so I go higher in carbs but everyone is different.

It's not a problem but more so everyone is different but yes the problem is you have guys on here who's definition of huge is 220 at 5ft10 and they are probably taking in half of what is needed for them to actually get huge. But they don't want to get huge so it's fine as everyone is different. I am by no means huge (far from it) either but if I were to live off some of the diets I read about on here I could never grow. One guy recently told me he was living on 1500 cals and he bulks on I think it was 2400 cals.

Now I also think some can go overboard but with protein you really can and the only reasons you shouldn't are probably related to health and digestion. Loads of guys who get too excessive (drugs as well) often end up with major distention. I think somewhere around the middle is usually the best answer for most. I still think you can get huge on lower protein but the thing is even the guys wanting to get huge on lower protein aren't taking in the amount of carbs/fats they need to be taking in. However I 100% think higher protein is optimal. A guy who takes in higher protein and trains hard just has a better look to him. Over the years they are always harder and denser. Again you can still get huge with lower protein and large carbs/fats but if you look at any huge and muscular person they are usually taking in at least 50g+ protein at least 6 times daily and there is a reason for that. Some beasts are taking in 100g+ protein per meal and again there is a reason for it but it is excessive.

The key is finding the best way for you and it varies but I think for 99% of people it will need to involve high protein intake if your goal is to grow loads of muscle.
 
Also depend what type of work you doing for living, and how much you train, back in the 60s I was doing some Olympic lifting also, the elite wight lifters were training 2 times per day, they were eating over 4g protein per kg body weight.
 
As to getting fat from protein intake, when gaining I usually eat 16-24 ounces of lean meat per meal.. once every 5 hours or so. And I never gain fat when doing so unless I eat excess carbs/fats on top of it (not including fruits and the various sauces and seasonings for my chicken/steak which has sugars too

When dieting I find I don't need much at all but that is different
 
I think we need a clear definition of what low and high means. For example, Stan Efferding and Patrick tuor have their athletes on 1g of protein per pound of bodyweight or a little less. I know Stan has even suggested .8g of protein per pound. They also believe in high carbs. Justin Harris will use much less than 1g of protein per pound on high carb days and well over 1g protein on low/med carb days. Guys like Dante and Chad believe in well over 1g per pound.

All of these guys have had great success with many athletes of all levels.
 
I think we need a clear definition of what low and high means. For example, Stan Efferding and Patrick tuor have their athletes on 1g of protein per pound of bodyweight or a little less. I know Stan has even suggested .8g of protein per pound. They also believe in high carbs. Justin Harris will use much less than 1g of protein per pound on high carb days and well over 1g protein on low/med carb days. Guys like Dante and Chad believe in well over 1g per pound.

All of these guys have had great success with many athletes of all levels.

Patrick Tuor yes, but Stan in his mass gaining phases has really high protein, his sample diet in his book for bulking phase has close to 5 pounds of lean red meat(I believe 4 pounds of ground bison + other sources is the example I'll have to double check) and if you see most of the diets he has his big guys on its pretty high protein for bulking phases.

I was fairly shocked with the last fouad & patrick tuor interview, he seems to barely use any protein so there is that but it's the only one I've seen recommend this - and I'm wondering if he uses this approach with "smaller" people gaining weight or with already big/maxed out competitors trying to fine tune body parts for stage.
 
The problem is this: consuming a lot of saturated fat on a keto diet increases your bad cholesterol and restricts blood flow to all major organs. Whereas consuming a lot of plant-based foods improves cholesterol levels and significantly improves blood flow to all major organs ( including your sex organs). 😉 Therefore, unless you are prepping for a show, I believe it’s best to hold onto a little more body fat and remain healthy.

What evidence do you have that saturated fat restricts blood flow to all major organs? That is simply not true.

Here it is:


Again I'm not claiming to be an expert on this, just going from personal experience and research to my knowledge.

In a calorie deficit I don't think it really matters all that much but in a big surplus I've definitely kept tighter when the surplus is protein vs junk food/carbs.

and this is anectodale of course but if you browse through keto/carnivore groups, those bulking are on much higher calories than "normal" with minimal body fat gains. If you want something a bit more scientific you can see the work Dr. Peter Attia has posted, when he was doing his keto experiements for years he was eating around 4000 cals a day to sustain himself @ 180 pounds or so, several dexa scans to show body composition - and regarding cholesterol his numbers were supper high but not damaging, he posted several tests for arteries etc.

Dude, did you read the study? The plant based low fat group ate 689 calories per day less on average, but they also burned less calories than the high fat animal protein group. Secondly, the high fat animal protein group had a higher protein intake. Thirdly, it says right in the study that the animal protein high fat group lost more lean body mass, primarily due to a loss in water weight as would be expected. AND the plant based group that ate less calories lost significant fat mass whereas the high fat group that ate more calories did not lose significant fat mass.

I'm not trying to be a dick but what you stated earlier "There was a recent IMO fairly ground breaking study comparing weight loss/gain on plant based vs keto and keto was able to loose the same or more with better composition with on average 700+ calories per day." was not even remotely close to true. It showed EXACTLY what we would expect.

I've bulked up on super high fat / low carb plenty of times. It did not allow me to eat more calories without fat gain, and proportionally I actually gained more fat than when I was eating less fat and higher carbs. That's just my anecdote though. Research also bears this out, and shows slightly more LBM gain with higher carb diets.
 
Also wanted to point out that I largely agree with what Dante is saying there. People do tend to have amnesia regarding what really worked to get them big. I don't personally agree with 2g/lb....I've seen tons of top level pros (naturals) who do not ever go over 1g/lb......I think 1-1.5g/lb will have everyone covered. But again that's still 200-300+g of protein for most serious lifters. 50-100g is too low in my opinion for optimal progress.

Also just by virtue of needing more calories to get really big you will tend to have higher protein intakes.
 
What evidence do you have that saturated fat restricts blood flow to all major organs? That is simply not true.



Dude, did you read the study? The plant based low fat group ate 689 calories per day less on average, but they also burned less calories than the high fat animal protein group. Secondly, the high fat animal protein group had a higher protein intake. Thirdly, it says right in the study that the animal protein high fat group lost more lean body mass, primarily due to a loss in water weight as would be expected. AND the plant based group that ate less calories lost significant fat mass whereas the high fat group that ate more calories did not lose significant fat mass.

I'm not trying to be a dick but what you stated earlier "There was a recent IMO fairly ground breaking study comparing weight loss/gain on plant based vs keto and keto was able to loose the same or more with better composition with on average 700+ calories per day." was not even remotely close to true. It showed EXACTLY what we would expect.

I've bulked up on super high fat / low carb plenty of times. It did not allow me to eat more calories without fat gain, and proportionally I actually gained more fat than when I was eating less fat and higher carbs. That's just my anecdote though. Research also bears this out, and shows slightly more LBM gain with higher carb diets.

All good, your not being a dick, thats why I come here, to have civilized discussions and learn.

To be honest I just brushed through the study, I watched a 15 minute video on it and the explanation of the study was very different of what your saying but who knows. I'll go re-read it properly.
 
It amazes me how so many of you guys are dead set on what is working for you being the only "right" way to go about.

If someone can eat 500g protein and 100g carbs a day with no negative side effects then who the fuck cares , same goes for the guys that can eat 100g Protein and 800g carbs a day , if that's what you have figured out what YOUR body prefer to use them that's what is right FOR YOU.

I wish I could eat a ton more carbs ,they are way cheaper and offer a huge taste variety , but carbs simple do no digest well. No matter what I eat , from fruits , rice , potatoes , even processed carbs all end up giving me terrible indigestion after a couple days of higher intake. So to increase my calories I have to use protein and fats and odd as it may see to some of you my digestion improves and my labs stay great (but I eat alot of healthy fats)

Figure out what works for you and stuck with that , who cares what works for the next guy or what studies say what.
 

Staff online

  • pesty4077
    Moderator/ Featured Member / Kilo Klub
  • LATS
    Moderator / FOUNDING Member / NPC Judge

Forum statistics

Total page views
558,063,035
Threads
135,759
Messages
2,768,709
Members
160,343
Latest member
12cc
NapsGear
HGH Power Store email banner
your-raws
Prowrist straps store banner
infinity
FLASHING-BOTTOM-BANNER-210x131
raws
Savage Labs Store email
Syntherol Site Enhancing Oil Synthol
aqpharma
yourmuscleshop210x131
hulabs
ezgif-com-resize-2-1
MA Research Chem store banner
MA Supps Store Banner
volartek
Keytech banner
musclechem
Godbullraw-bottom-banner
Injection Instructions for beginners
Knight Labs store email banner
3
ashp131
YMS-210x131-V02
Back
Top