Personal experience with coaches and cycles

[tenny]

Let me get this straight. So for the people who said they dont want to come off because they dont want to yoyo there hormones?

So for someone who just blasted the shit out of themselves for a show then goes on 250mg of test to do what exactly?

That 250 mg of test is not doing shit for you after you just took
1500mg test
600mg tren
50 mg of win ed
100mg halotestin
Fucking 800 mg masteron
10 iu gh
150mcg of clean
50mcg t3

So that 250 mg of test you cruise on is helping your hormonal crash and yoyo?

People need to come off period

yo-yoing is not as bad as totally tanking T levels....

that's what NH was saying.....so in terms of yoyo effect...
you don't want to see double digits.....

now you can probably come off for 3 to 4 weeks before that happens...
but it WILL happen...so before it happens we trt dose...

 

[KillerStack]

King Kamali said Chad absolutely insisted on going totally off and doing a PCT with HCG and Clomid, that Chad wouldn't even talk to him otherwise. maybe Chad has changed his mind since then since it's been awhile since Kamali competed.

yo-yoing is not as bad as totally tanking T levels....

that's what NH was saying.....so in terms of yoyo effect...
you don't want to see double digits.....

now you can probably come off for 3 to 4 weeks before that happens...
but it WILL happen...so before it happens we trt dose...

Looking at some charts on half lives it might take a long time to tank levels if someone was on high doses. Do you feel you start to tank in a month regardless of dose, say if you took a couple of grams of long estered gear?

Personally I'm advicing a high level competitor right now who came off a 3 gram (at peak dose) contest stack about 3 months ago. After 6 weeks he did one shot of Nebido (1 gram of Test Undec) which only puts you in normal range for maybe 8 weeks. After the shot he is taking another 8 weeks off before an off-season cycle. There was a dramatic change in "look" after coming off, shoulders lost the roundness, he felt he was deflating by the day. But after the Nebido shot he gained some back and is looking good right now. A little test goes a long way.

 

[tenny]

King Kamali said Chad absolutely insisted on going totally off and doing a PCT with HCG and Clomid, that Chad wouldn't even talk to him otherwise. maybe Chad has changed his mind since then since it's been awhile since Kamali competed.



Looking at some charts on half lives it might take a long time to tank levels if someone was on high doses. Do you feel you start to tank in a month regardless of dose, say if you took a couple of grams of long estered gear?

Personally I'm advicing a high level competitor right now who came off a 3 gram (at peak dose) contest stack about 3 months ago. After 6 weeks he did one shot of Nebido (1 gram of Test Undec) which only puts you in normal range for maybe 8 weeks. After the shot he is taking another 8 weeks off before an off-season cycle. There was a dramatic change in "look" after coming off, shoulders lost the roundness, he felt he was deflating by the day. But after the Nebido shot he gained some back and is looking good right now. A little test goes a long way.

that's exactly what happens.....deflating by the day...

I personally start losing delt roundness first....as soon as
the pants get loose (in the butt and leg)....I know I'm at the
lower end of 100 or dipping into double digits...

 

[nothuman]

Let me get this straight. So for the people who said they dont want to come off because they dont want to yoyo there hormones?

So for someone who just blasted the shit out of themselves for a show then goes on 250mg of test to do what exactly?

That 250 mg of test is not doing shit for you after you just took
1500mg test
600mg tren
50 mg of win ed
100mg halotestin
Fucking 800 mg masteron
10 iu gh
150mcg of clean
50mcg t3

So that 250 mg of test you cruise on is helping your hormonal crash and yoyo?

People need to come off period

Completely incorrect. Also, 250mg test is too much for most people. You want to get your test back into the normal range of about 800-1000. This way you are back to being in a healthy hormonal state without tanking your levels and getting all the bad sides associated with low testosterone.

You do not need to come off, nor should you.

 

[RetiredArmy0513]

From personal experience... see lab results below. This was after 6-7 weeks after doing absolutely nothing. I think 4 weeks is the magic number. I remember feeling like shit starting around 4 weeks after not taking anything. Sex drive was gone, I was sore all over, couldn't recover, just felt like dog shit. And this was after 500mg test 300 deca and 200 Mast...All my other numbers were good but Test and E2 were low.



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[Elvia1023]

yo-yoing is not as bad as totally tanking T levels....

that's what NH was saying.....so in terms of yoyo effect...
you don't want to see double digits.....

now you can probably come off for 3 to 4 weeks before that happens...
but it WILL happen...so before it happens we trt dose...

x2

It's one thing to come from using loads of hormones to going down to testosterone level of a healthy youug man to basically shutting down your entire system. I think a lot of these coaches are simply old school and they do what they always have even if it's not optimal.

I know many coaches (Palumbo, Aceto, Tuor) who get guys to come off completely and no you are not going to get better results in the long run. You get amazing results because you basically start losing everything and start feeling like crap then bang back on.

Dev on here is a good exmaple of using a coach recently who follows the ways of Chris Aceto. He had him come off then go straight back on which in most ways is completely pointless. He didn't give him the needed time to come off and in the end it was a pointless endeavour and Dev will tell you that.

Now if you are coming off for a mental break then that is different and you come off and get what you need from that. Many guys start banging in the likes of HCG and clomid so they don't even come off but again have that mental break and go back on. They convince themselves it has suddenly cleaned their receptors and they are fresh again and it's nonsense. Anyone who has studied the science of this will tell you that.

It's mainly just a mental thing and that's great... I have come off everything myself many times. Obviously when I say a mental thing you notice it physically more than anything. Yes I blow back up super fast and feel great but that's because I have been shut down and literally melting away over the prior 2 months

If you go on 10-20mg test per day for example you are getting that break you need without crashing your system. Therefore you are losing much less and not doing any of this yoyoing. Yes if you come off you blow back up but why go through the crash and surges in cortisol, estrogen etc when you can pretty much feel good and get the break from hormones you need. Plus on trt you can maintain well so you never go too far backwards like you would if coming off for 4 months. That way you should be able to make more gains in the future. Although your gains are very genetic and regardless of the way you do thing (coming off or trt) you are gonna end up probably looking the same anyway.

Look at it this way what's the point in feeling like shit for months with no sex drive etc for pretty much nothing in return.

 

[nothuman]

x2

It's one thing to come from using loads of hormones to going down to testosterone level of a healthy youug man to basically shutting down your entire system. I think a lot of these coaches are simply old school and they do what they always have even if it's not optimal.

I know many coaches (Palumbo, Aceto, Tuor) who get guys to come off completely and no you are not going to get better results in the long run. You get amazing results because you basically start losing everything and start feeling like crap then bang back on.

Dev on here is a good exmaple of using a coach recently who follows the ways of Chris Aceto. He had him come off then go straight back on which in most ways is completely pointless. He didn't give him the needed time to come off and in the end it was a pointless endeavour and Dev will tell you that.

Now if you are coming off for a mental break then that is different and you come off and get what you need from that. Many guys start banging in the likes of HCG and clomid so they don't even come off but again have that mental break and go back on. They convince themselves it has suddenly cleaned their receptors and they are fresh again and it's nonsense. Anyone who has studied the science of this will tell you that.

It's mainly just a mental thing and that's great... I have come off everything myself many times. Obviously when I say a mental thing you notice it physically more than anything. Yes I blow back up super fast and feel great but that's because I have been shut down and literally melting away over the prior 2 months

If you go on 10-20mg test per day for example you are getting that break you need without crashing your system. Therefore you are losing much less and not doing any of this yoyoing. Yes if you come off you blow back up but why go through the crash and surges in cortisol, estrogen etc when you can pretty much feel good and get the break from hormones you need. Plus on trt you can maintain well so you never go too far backwards like you would if coming off for 4 months. That way you should be able to make more gains in the future. Although your gains are very genetic and regardless of the way you do thing (coming off or trt) you are gonna end up probably looking the same anyway.

Look at it this way what's the point in feeling like shit for months with no sex drive etc for pretty much nothing in return.

I think what a lot of people don't realize is that these "gurus" are just bodybuilding gurus and not health gurus. I guarantee you they have no valid explanation for coming completely off from a health perspective. My only guess as to why they would recommend that is because they think you're more prime to build new muscle once you get back on like you're saying (which is debatable).

 

[Elvia1023]

I think what a lot of people don't realize is that these "gurus" are just bodybuilding gurus and not health gurus. I guarantee you they have no valid explanation for coming completely off from a health perspective. My only guess as to why they would recommend that is because they think you're more prime to build new muscle once you get back on like you're saying (which is debatable).

When I have seen interviews talking about it that's why they basically say. Some guys like Aceto simply don't like talking drugs though and are almost criptic with their answers. Palumbo talks about everything and is super intelligent but his off imo with what he says regarding this subject. He says it's basically to clean out the system and I 100% get that. But as you know you can still clean out the system on a maintenance level of testosterone. I like the mental break and inject quite a lot so 2 months off injections is nice for me.

A lot of them have just always done it that way and that's what they were told and it still works so they keep with it. The pro who trained Dev didn't have a clue about any of the science and I think was just copying what Aceto told him to do. As you stated they believe it primes the body and gives it a rest which is common sense but it doesn't really work like that. Switching from exogenous to endogenous testosterone and going through shutdown is not giving the body rest and pretty much causing havoc to your insides and will likely worsen health before improving it.

Then comes the blatant fact some of these guys use steroids most of the year so they will never recover in a few months (some will but many won't). So they are going through life with low testosterone for many months which is only bad for you health. Some guys can take up to 2 years to recover whereas others may never fully recover and need trt for optimal wellbeing and health. All in all a break from certain hormones is fine but forcing major shutdown is usually never a good thing.

 

[jazilla]

Does anyone have coach Trevor's protocol ?


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There's a youtube video where he says he basically uses GH15 protocol...GH/Insulin/tren/mild test. I'll go through my browser history to find it. He doesn't give exact doses - he kinda dodges that question. But he says it's pretty much what GH15 wrote.

 

[dantes]

I like trevor but i think we will never see those pics..

He competed in a show up here in sacramento yrs back i think it may have been the governors cup....my friend saw him and said he wasnt conditioned at all but i cant verify

 

[nihilixm]

There's a youtube video where he says he basically uses GH15 protocol...GH/Insulin/tren/mild test. I'll go through my browser history to find it. He doesn't give exact doses - he kinda dodges that question. But he says it's pretty much what GH15 wrote.

Thought it was something like 300 test 400 tren both enth then 2iu gh with slin every meal.

Post it up?

 

[cujolaverga21]

Tad inoue was reasonable. Big fan of keto dieting. He recommended
50mg prop ED
25mg tren ace eod
25mg t3 daily
Clen

I didn't agree with anything but the test, so that's all I ran. He did give weekly 45 minute cheats though..that was a plus

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[bieberhole69]

I do not use a coach (but do get advice from time to time...which has led to me using gradually less doses, no orals, tren only when dieting, etc. hasn't seemed to matter much as people think as long as I'm nailing food and training).

With that being said, I know a few guys (not from this board) who are using popular coaches at the moment (not ones from this board, that I'm aware of). Popular defined by how many clients / IG followers they've got I guess.

Anyways...national protocols for boys that want to be big from the "current" crop of "popular" coaches seems to be this:

3-5g gear including constant oral usage with no real breaks, just compounds switched here and there
6-8iu gh
slin with very few breaks
peps galore

very short "bridges" instead of cruises with 300-500t + orals + 4iu gh + peps

Seems super dangerous to me, but the results are the "mutation" results everybody always dreams of. Not worth it to me, but some people have goals that they'll do anything to make happen.

 

[warlock]

Tad inoue was reasonable. Big fan of keto dieting. He recommended
50mg prop ED
25mg tren ace eod
25mg t3 daily
Clen

I didn't agree with anything but the test, so that's all I ran. He did give weekly 45 minute cheats though..that was a plus

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Was the keto diet for precontest? How about the cycle? Precontest or off-season? I'm assuming precontest (clen, t3). For how many weeks? What division?

 

[Beti ona]

Anyways...national protocols for boys that want to be big from the "current" crop of "popular" coaches seems to be this:

3-5g gear including constant oral usage with no real breaks, just compounds switched here and there
6-8iu gh
slin with very few breaks
peps galore

very short "bridges" instead of cruises with 300-500t + orals + 4iu gh + peps.

I wonder why the current crop of National competitors sucks if we compare it to the guys of the 90s. It seems that the genetically better gifted are competing in classic, or it could be because the quality of the drugs is worse, or because they do not pay attention to training and diet and leave everything in the hands of drugs.

 

[ALLEX]

Palumbo talks about everything and is super intelligent but his off imo with what he says regarding this subject. He says it's basically to clean out the system and I 100% get that. But as you know you can still clean out the system on a maintenance level of testosterone. I like the mental break and inject quite a lot so 2 months off injections is nice for me.

Bro's science is still a big part of bodybuilding. The concept of cleaning up receptors is very strong, even around advanced circles. Many pros and famous gurus do believe this.

I have the utmost respect for bro's science. I believe the sport wouldn't have evolved like it has if everyone only went scientific on their approaches. But I don't see the point with this one either. I mean, if you're a guru and you get a new client that was taking 20 drugs under somebody else, by all means, ask him to stop everything so you can figure out what you're doing and start from scratch. But stopping in belief that there will a miraculous rebound, don't think so.

 

[cujolaverga21]

Was the keto diet for precontest? How about the cycle? Precontest or off-season? I'm assuming precontest (clen, t3). For how many weeks? What division?

No, it was just for leaning out. My "precontest" would be the spring time until the pool opens. I didn't feel it was necessary to use those drugs just to help achieve a shredded look for summer. One of the reasons we parted ways..that and recommending every single product that he was sponsored by.

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[cujolaverga21]

I've never competed, and have never done more than a wee amount of test and some var or winnie. I'm 5'10, 220..average gym rat. Nothing special

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[warlock]

My diet with Palumbo back in 2013

Jazilla,

Was the brown rice and sweet potato cooked or uncooked weight?

If Diet # 1 fell on a non-workout day, what did Dave have you eat for meal 5? Just the whey without the waxy maize?

 

[warlock]

No, it was just for leaning out. My "precontest" would be the spring time until the pool opens. I didn't feel it was necessary to use those drugs just to help achieve a shredded look for summer. One of the reasons we parted ways..that and recommending every single product that he was sponsored by.

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How many weeks did he have you run the cycle for? Was the diet keto? Similar to Palumbo's style?