Phosphatidic acid enhances mTOR signaling and resistance exercise induced hypertrophy

Frito · Nov 24, 2016

So I´m sure a lot of have seen the product that´s coming out soon with this in.

But the Phosphatidic acid by itself seems to have been on the market for a while, so have anyone used it?
What are the results? It´s quite expensive, so is it worth it?

Phosphatidic acid enhances mTOR signaling and resistance exercise induced hypertrophy | Nutrition & Metabolism | Full Text

Conclusion

PA significantly activates mTOR and significantly improved responses in skeletal muscle hypertrophy, lean body mass, and maximal strength to resistance exercise.

Efficacy of phosphatidic acid ingestion on lean body mass, muscle thickness and strength gains in resistance-trained men | Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition | Full Text

Conclusions

Results of this study suggest that a combination of a daily 750 mg PA ingestion, combined with a 4-day per week resistance training program for 8-weeks appears to have a likely benefit on strength improvement, and a very likely benefit on lean tissue accruement in young, resistance trained individuals.

Seems like there is some research that shows benefits.

dnab87 · Nov 24, 2016

Matt Porter just announced his eaa product with 800mg pp per serving.

suppdude · Nov 24, 2016

Data on PA has been out for a while now.

Certainly can help those who aren't utilizing supper supps.

Want a much cheaper PA source? Lecithin Granules providing 98% phosphatides.

Mike Arnold · Nov 24, 2016

From what I can recall, PA was a bit of a bust...not because it doesn't stimulate mTOR (it does), but because the effect is not additive when combined with leucine. In other words, when combining both leucine and PA, the effect on mTOR signaling was not dramatically greater than optimal doses of leucine by itself--certainly not what most would consider "cost-effective".

Considering the cost of PA relative to leucine, most people would be better off sticking with leucine as their primary mTOR signaler, BUT maybe there has been contradictory research since then. I don't know.

BKCE87 · Nov 25, 2016

When I was off for almost 2 years I had good results with PA. Not a busy in my opinion, wouldn't take it while on any AAS though, just seems pointless.

warlock · Nov 25, 2016

suppdude said:
Data on PA has been out for a while now.

Certainly can help those who aren't utilizing supper supps.

Want a much cheaper PA source? Lecithin Granules providing 98% phosphatides.

Any specific brand you could recommend?

Phidias · Nov 25, 2016

Phospholipids as a whole are probably one of the most underrated families of nutrients... their impact on health, especially on cholesterol and liver, but also on the brain are tremendous.

Your best bet would be to use a combo of phosphatidic acid/phosphatidylcholine/ph.inositol/ph.ethanolamine and ph.serine... the latter, as already discussed many times, being efficient at lowering cortisol (Matt Porter's product indeed).

Good thread.

Phidias · Nov 25, 2016

suppdude said:
Want a much cheaper PA source? Lecithin Granules providing 98% phosphatides.

Indeed contains all the phospholipids I just mentioned in the post above!

If you use lecithin and not your own mix of phospholipids though, please make sure to have enough omega 3's in your diet, cause otherwise it could throw your balance om 3's/om 6's off... lecithin being almost exclusively om 6's.

Smack · Nov 25, 2016

Phidias said:
Indeed contains all the phospholipids I just mentioned in the post above!

If you use lecithin and not your own mix of phospholipids though, please make sure to have enough omega 3's in your diet, cause otherwise it could throw your balance om 3's/om 6's off... lecithin being almost exclusively om 6's.

A bit pricier but I would opt for sunflower lecithin as opposed to soy to avoid the phytoestrogens. Also like the taste of it with shakes

suppdude · Nov 25, 2016

warlock said:
Any specific brand you could recommend?

Any brand that offers 98% phosphatides as mentioned.

Fearn is one to check into.

warlock · Nov 25, 2016

suppdude said:
Any brand that offers 98% phosphatides as mentioned.

Fearn is one to check into.

Thank you brother. Is there much difference between 97% phosphatides and 98% phosphatides?

I found a few brands that offer 97% phosphatides including Fearn, but not really any that offer 98% phosphatides.

Some brands (such as NOW) do not list the percentages though a review I read states it offers 98% phosphatides??

LK3 · Nov 26, 2016

thanks for this post!

totally clued me into something I had been experiencing but could not figure out why...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphatidylcholine
been using this for a while and has noticeable performance improvement!

:headbang:

Macrocupcake124 · Nov 26, 2016

warlock said:
Thank you brother. Is there much difference between 97% phosphatides and 98% phosphatides?

I found a few brands that offer 97% phosphatides including Fearn, but not really any that offer 98% phosphatides.

Some brands (such as NOW) do not list the percentages though a review I read states it offers 98% phosphatides??

Fearn is the only one I've seen that lists the amount of phosphatidic acid and it has 1200mg per serving at $9.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

warlock · Nov 26, 2016

noswttea4u said:
Fearn is the only one I've seen that lists the amount of phosphatidic acid and it has 1200mg per serving at $9.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The fearn I checked has 97%, and not 98%. Did you find one with 98%?

suppdude · Nov 26, 2016

warlock said:
Thank you brother. Is there much difference between 97% phosphatides and 98% phosphatides?

I found a few brands that offer 97% phosphatides including Fearn, but not really any that offer 98% phosphatides.

Some brands (such as NOW) do not list the percentages though a review I read states it offers 98% phosphatides??

warlock said:
The fearn I checked has 97%, and not 98%. Did you find one with 98%?

97% is perfectly fine. A lot of these brands don't list the percent nor the PA amount on the label. There is a thread somewhere (can't remember or find it right now) that has info where companies replied stating the ranges of PA in the products. Best to just go with Fearn.

Frito · Nov 26, 2016

Phidias said:
Indeed contains all the phospholipids I just mentioned in the post above!

If you use lecithin and not your own mix of phospholipids though, please make sure to have enough omega 3's in your diet, cause otherwise it could throw your balance om 3's/om 6's off... lecithin being almost exclusively om 6's.

Do you mix your own? Or do you use lecithin?

Phidias · Nov 27, 2016

Frito said:
Do you mix your own? Or do you use lecithin?

I buy both those products locally in health shops... but of course they can ship it everywhere in the world (well, I think so!):

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Frito · Nov 27, 2016

Phidias said:
I buy both those products locally in health shops... but of course they can ship it everywhere in the world (well, I think so!):

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Thanks, I´m from europe as well, so shouldn´t be a problem shipping it.

But I just read about about Phosphatidylserine and it´s seems like it´s great for cognitive benefits, but the cortisol lowering effects are bullshit if you are using plant based versions.

https://examine.com/supplements/phosphatidylserine/

A decrease in exercise-induced cortisol has been noted with the bovine cortex sourced PS only, soy based supplements (which are usually the only ones sold now due to fear of Creutzfeldt–Jakob disease) have been shown to have outright no effect at doses up to 750mg